Tottering on the precipice -- advice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with pp, really hard to give advice without more details.

I will also say you may have to be prepared to take a pay cut. If your lifestyle won't allow for it, you need to take control of expenses now.

+1

ASAE has great leads for executive level positions but it sounds like you are currently in the $350K+ salary range and you will likely need to take a (perhaps significant) pay cut.

Thanks for all the posts. I've tried most of these things. I see the great jobs online (I make less than 350k, far less, but some of those jobs pay $80k or less, no kidding), but has anyone gotten a job by applying through a website without a personal recommendation? I have applied for jobs online, received NO response, and then, via a personal recommendation, gotten an interview for the same job. I'm the same person, same resume, but those online postings are not getting me in the door.

The feeling I'm getting is that I have to dye my hair, update my wardrobe, tweak my resume and continue to network. Going out on my own will work in a few years, but not now. My family has already cut expenses drastically. We're going into survival mode because I don't know when the axe will fall.

I can't say more about my field. It's professional and jobs are decreasing. My colleagues may be reading this board.

I never thought I'd find myself in this position at this point in my career. I've read repeatedly about 50-somethings being downsized and not being able to find jobs, but I never thought I'd be one of them. I remember reading in the NY Times about a woman in her 50s who'd had years of professional experience, yet couldn't get interviews. I figured she was doing something wrong, or something was wrong with her. Now I see the only thing she did "wrong" was grow older.

I'd love to hear from 50-somethings who have successfully found jobs! That would give me some hope! TIA

[Anonymous]

Op, I mean this in the kindest of ways, but the salaries you discussed in your posting above (less than 350K, jobs paying 80K way too little) indicate that you are looking to move to another very high level, high paying job. That is understandable, given that it seems like you have a high level, high paying job now. However, of course these types of moves are going to be more difficult, given that there are a limited number of these kinds of jobs in any field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you do sound as if you are depressed. You've asked for suggestions yet you've rejected every suggestion anyone has made - this is not intended to be a criticism, am just pointing out something which you may not have realized because that is a symptom of depression - you think it's all hopeless. I think priority number one should be talking to someone/taking an online questionnaire to see if you're depressed. It's very difficult to make decisions and take action if you are depressed and that would explain your rejection of all the useful suggestions people are giving you. Consider it and treat the depression first so that you can then be ready to deal with next steps in your career with a clear head.

I am definitely feeling depressed. I said that in my first post. The anxiety is starting to overwhelm me. I am responsible for my whole family's financial welfare, and I feel I'm failing. That would depress anyone.

The only area I have not explored is a job with the Federal government. Before moving here, I did post my resume on USA jobs, but never went any further. An earlier poster mentioned using that website.

I read the thread about applying for Fed jobs, e.g. writing a seven-page resume using words from the job description. I'll try again on USA Jobs, but will it be a waste of time without knowing someone in the agency?

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

I read the thread about applying for Fed jobs, e.g. writing a seven-page resume using words from the job description. I'll try again on USA Jobs, but will it be a waste of time without knowing someone in the agency?

Thanks.

No. There may be some jobs posted where they have particular hirees in mind, but not all. The important thing is that your skills match well with the job requirements.

[Anonymous]

OP again. Back to my original question: Has anyone had a good experience with job counseling/outplacement firms?

Are they a complete waste of time, or does it depend on the person/firm?

One poster said they were a waste, but I don't know if that was from personal experience. My sense is they won't tell me anything I don't know already, but I'm willing to do anything necessary to improve my chances of finding another job.

BTW, where do people find jobs these days? Is it all through personal contacts? I know only one person who got her job through a website. The HR person told her she was the only one she knew of hired through the website. And it is a big company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, I mean this in the kindest of ways, but the salaries you discussed in your posting above (less than 350K, jobs paying 80K way too little) indicate that you are looking to move to another very high level, high paying job. That is understandable, given that it seems like you have a high level, high paying job now. However, of course these types of moves are going to be more difficult, given that there are a limited number of these kinds of jobs in any field.

This is the 51 yo PP. I have to agree. My current job pays at a level that you'd consider subpar and unacceptable, but for me I feel fortunate. Are you the sole breadwinner in the family? If so, I can appreciate why taking a drastic paycut would be so difficult. But in the end it may be necessary. Do you have above a bachelor's level degree that you can leverage in another field? How specialized is what you do? I know you don't want to give specifics, but a career counselor might be able to help you think about how to repurpose your skill-set and clarify your priorities.

[Anonymous]

Have your wife start looking for work. Can she go back to school? Learn a trade? Dental hygiene, even a CNA job will pay a bit and provide insurance. They are always hiring CNA's. It's hard, dirty work but it is a job. Also, once one gets hired somewhere within a healthcare organization you can go elsewhere.

Sorry you might actually have to work for a living but this is the way a lot of us live. Welcome to reality. It bites.

[Anonymous]

ASAE poster here -- I'm 50 years old and have helped friends in my (and your) age group land jobs at associations that they have found through the ASAE website.

Does it mean that the ASAE website is different from all the other websites out there? No. It's how you use that website (or any job search website) that makes the difference.

Do you have a LinkedIn profile? Do you have a network of people (online and offline) that you can reach out to? If The Great Job popped up on a website, would you simply send your resume in by email? No! You would work through your network (on and offline) and find out who you know that works at The Great Job Place. Then you would reach out to the friend of a friend at The Great Job Place and learn more about the job. You would get your resume and cover letter to Friend of a Friend at The Great Job Place. AND you would submit your resume and cover letter online with a mention of Friend of a Friend that knows about your interest in the position.

You need to network. You need to be asking people to keep their eyes open for positions that open up that might be a fit for you. You need to have your Elevator Speech ready so you can work your network regularly. And you need to accept the fact that you may not match your current it's-not-$350K-but-it's-not-$80K-either salary.

Skip the job counseling/outplacement firms and go with the network, network, network strategy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get the privacy concerns but can't really advise without knowing what is your field. Saying the job prospects are similar to academia doesn't convey any info. You could at least name the related fields.

I was in construction but got a new job in a related field (federal) at age 53. I would not dream of going grey until retirement, plus I have a teenager and would hate for people to mistake me for his granny. So I've been dying to medium brown for nearly 20 years and so far no lymphoma. You could always go lighter, doesn't have to match your own hair color. And exercise, get in shape to feel great about yourself. Be willing to take a paycut and downsize your expenses so you don't have to do a job you hate.

I would suggest you apply for jobs in government. There is a huge array of fields and though jobs are few they do exist. Go to USAJOBS.gov for example, that's how I found mine. At least to see what's possible.

OP back again. How did you find your gov. job? I am in a field with many skills that are transferable and would be desirable in many agencies. I've seen postings for government jobs on USAJOBS.com that sound like they might be a good fit. The only thing stopping me is, again, I don't know anyone at the agency. Is it possible to find a government job without a connection? If so, how?

Thanks for the advice on the hair color. I'm definitely going to take it. I've always wanted to be a blonde! Maybe I'll like how I look better. I was asked if I was my child's grandmother not long ago. That was a first for me. I'm in pretty good shape, so at least that's not a problem. I'd go completely crazy if I didn't exercise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ASAE poster here -- I'm 50 years old and have helped friends in my (and your) age group land jobs at associations that they have found through the ASAE website.

Does it mean that the ASAE website is different from all the other websites out there? No. It's how you use that website (or any job search website) that makes the difference.

Do you have a LinkedIn profile? Do you have a network of people (online and offline) that you can reach out to? If The Great Job popped up on a website, would you simply send your resume in by email? No! You would work through your network (on and offline) and find out who you know that works at The Great Job Place. Then you would reach out to the friend of a friend at The Great Job Place and learn more about the job. You would get your resume and cover letter to Friend of a Friend at The Great Job Place. AND you would submit your resume and cover letter online with a mention of Friend of a Friend that knows about your interest in the position.

You need to network. You need to be asking people to keep their eyes open for positions that open up that might be a fit for you. You need to have your Elevator Speech ready so you can work your network regularly. And you need to accept the fact that you may not match your current it's-not-$350K-but-it's-not-$80K-either salary.

Skip the job counseling/outplacement firms and go with the network, network, network strategy.

Thank you for this post. This is exactly what I have been doing, so at least you've confirmed that I'm on the right track. I probably need to be more aggressive. I have not been using LinkedIn as much as I could, so that's a good suggestion. And I do need to polish my Elevator Speech, so that's a helpful reminder too. I'm resigned to accepting a lower salary as long as the work is interesting.

No one was laid off in my office today, so I'm counting my blessings.

[Anonymous]

I've seen postings for government jobs on USAJOBS.com that sound like they might be a good fit. The only thing stopping me is, again, I don't know anyone at the agency. Is it possible to find a government job without a connection? If so, how?

OP, I'm not trying to pick on you, but you are clearly feeling very anxious about the situation and it is coming across, which probably doesn't help when you are networking. You have asked the same or similar questions more than one time -e.g., the question above re whether you need to know someone to get a Government job. My point is not to criticize you, but rather, to point out that you need to try to find a way to manage your anxiety level as you address this process, in order to make yourself a more attractive candidate.

[Anonymous]

PP, I just re-read the thread and realized I asked the same question about gov jobs twice.

I've tried very hard not to think about this job situation during the holidays so as not to ruin them for my family, but this morning it started to overwhelm me. I keep it all buried at work, so posting on DCUM is therapeutic.

Thanks for all the helpful responses. They've given me more ideas to focus on. DCUM can be a lifesaver at times.

[Anonymous]

I got a GS-12 job (starting pay $75k) without knowing anyone. I don't know whether you'd need to know someone to get a higher paying job.

[Anonymous]

PP, I just re-read the thread and realized I asked the same question about gov jobs twice.

I've tried very hard not to think about this job situation during the holidays so as not to ruin them for my family, but this morning it started to overwhelm me. I keep it all buried at work, so posting on DCUM is therapeutic

Understood, I'm not trying to pick on you, I was hoping to be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have your wife start looking for work. Can she go back to school? Learn a trade? Dental hygiene, even a CNA job will pay a bit and provide insurance. They are always hiring CNA's. It's hard, dirty work but it is a job. Also, once one gets hired somewhere within a healthcare organization you can go elsewhere.

Sorry you might actually have to work for a living but this is the way a lot of us live. Welcome to reality. It bites.

You know what PP - OP is obviously hurting and depressed! By the grace of GOD go you that you've never had to go through this or that someone has paid for your existance so you've never had to worry about it. This is a serious situation for this guy and you kicking him when he's down is awful and horrible and mean.

OP - Im the second poster who asked if you looked 51. My DH is 53 and was out of a job for a year. He looks and acts young for his age - more like he's in his 40s but he is gray. There is no doubt that his hair was a strike against him...so he started to VERY subtly dye his hair (aka - JUST FOR MEN). make sure you're subtle.

He is an executive, very skilled and highly qualified in a field where very few top positions come available. Someone has to die or retire or get fired. It was a quandry for him as well that a person who would be looking for his kind of position has to have years of work experience, which means they are going to be older - period. Yet age discrimination does exist - its as if the employer wants their cake and wants to eat it too! You cant hire a wet-behind-the-ears employee and expect exec level work out of them. he was also running into situations where he was being offered $50K less than his last job, that's just greedy employers trying to get someone for cheap. Remember that you get what you pay for!

Anyhow, my Dh is a master networker. he knows everyone who is anyone in his field. Got a lot of great leads that way, but believe it or not, he got his job by applying cold to the employer's website. Knew no one at the company. So it CAN be done. here's my advise - as I watched him (and all of us) suffer through a LONG and depressing year:

1) Skip career counseling. At your level, you know more than any of those counselor bozos. They serve a totally different population. Entry or low-level workers

2) Network network network. Go to a lot of events. Start consulting if possible - even if its a weekend gig. Some of the best jobs come out of consulting engagements.

3) I went back to work when my DH lost his job. It helped not only financially but the moral of the house was better. Is your wife in a position to do that?

4) Be willing to move to wherever the job is - as long as its a good opportunity. But you move first and let the family follow after youve decided you like the job. There are plenty of places in this country where you can live very well on $100K - VERY well. I suggest you get the hell out of the DC rat-race. Go to a nice midwestern city. Denver (love it there), Sioux City, Kansas City, Salt Lake City, or go southwest to Texas. Tons of jobs there. Houston and Austin are full of available jobs. North Carolina - great place! Seattle - depressing weather but good jobs. Stay away from Vegas and Phoenix. too depressing. Point is, you have options - you just have to be willing to explore them.

5) And finally - this is the MOST IMPORTANT thing anyone in your situation can do. This is what is going to land you the right job. Finding a job is a lot like dating and finding someone to marry. No girl likes a desperate guy who is willing to do anything to get her attention. No matter how cute he is, a hanger-onner is a total turn off. So DO NOT ACT DESPERATE. Employers can smell it a mile away and it is a really unattractive trait. They dont want to hire someone who needs a job, they want to hire someone who could take it or leave it. Someone who is still employed. And someone who is NOT depressed. You have got to pick up your moral mister. Pick yourself up. put a smile on your face, go for a run, start working out, spruce up your wardrobe and convince yourself that you are the best candidate and its the employers loss if they dont hire you. never give up, tomorrow could be the day. the minute you give up, you've lost the race.