How Strong is Burgundy Farm Country Day Academically?

[Anonymous]

IMHO, the academics are subpar and the student's test scores bear this out. You will hear a lot of talk about how test scores don't matter and are not reflective of student achievement. Although there is an element of truth to that statement these kids still need the scores to get accepted at top schools. With out a doubt, Burgundy is a fun place, kids are generally happy and there is a strong sense of community. Too bad the kids aren't learning what they need to be academically competitive outside of Burgundy. It doesn't matter how much you "learn to love learning" if you aren't actually learning anything. BTW, the math differentiation in middle school is "on track" and remedial. That is hardly true differentiation.

[Anonymous]

22:33' could you clarify what kind of test scores you're referring to? Are we talking SSAT or IEEE?

You've captured my concerns in a nutshell: will Burgundy be a fun place that nurtures the social and emotional growth of a child while sacrificing intellectual challenge? I don't want DC to be academically competitive based on some extrinsic standard. Neither do I want DC to face constraints on learning because a school is limited in what it can provide. DC is advanced in math.

if you get a bright child truly excited about learning and show them the potential for taking it their learning to another level, the child generally will, just because it's fun. DC is very bright, but not super-driven. If DC had to stay after regular school hours to get more specialized teaching, not sure it would happen.

[Anonymous]

My DC attends Burgundy and I have posted comments regarding the school's academics on other DCUM threads ... I will try not to be too redundant here. My personal feeling is that a child who may require some remedial help or needs rigid structure to learn best is not a good fit for Burgundy. Nor is a child who is exceptionally bright and needs real challenge and acceleration. Most kids (again, definitely my opinion not gospel) fall well in the middle and thus would be fine at Burgundy. There is plenty of intellectual, academic activity every day at school and by the end of eighth grade, the kids leave with a good portfolio of knowlege, skills, confidence, and interest in continued learning.

Most of the parents I know at Burgundy understand that their kids could probably have more facts memorized and sharper writing skills if they attended different schools ... but to what end? Especially during the elementary years, children need to learn but they also need to have fun and experience joy every day. They will never be young children again. So while learning and fun need to be balanced and need not be mutually exclusive, Burgundy tends to err on the side of taking advantage of a glorious sunny day to have a few extra minutes of recess. Those are minutes that could have been used to learn multiplication facts ... but at the end of their time at Burgundy, they'll know those facts and a lot else too.

[Anonymous]

A good way to compare academics is to ask the teachers - the DC area private school scene is a small world. The former head of MS is at GDS now and the (relatively) new head used to teach at Maret. They should give you a good idea of how the schools compare academically. I believe there is also a K teacher who went through the associate teacher program at Beauvoir. I am sure there are others with experience at other privates as well.

[Anonymous]

PP I don't think that your are going to get a lot of frank talk from teachers. As you said, the DC area private school scene is a small world.

[Anonymous]

"My DC attends Burgundy and I have posted comments regarding the school's academics on other DCUM threads ... I will try not to be too redundant here. My personal feeling is that a child who may require some remedial help or needs rigid structure to learn best is not a good fit for Burgundy. Nor is a child who is exceptionally bright and needs real challenge and acceleration. Most kids (again, definitely my opinion not gospel) fall well in the middle and thus would be fine at Burgundy. There is plenty of intellectual, academic activity every day at school and by the end of eighth grade, the kids leave with a good portfolio of knowlege, skills, confidence, and interest in continued learning.

Most of the parents I know at Burgundy understand that their kids could probably have more facts memorized and sharper writing skills if they attended different schools ... but to what end? Especially during the elementary years, children need to learn but they also need to have fun and experience joy every day. They will never be young children again. So while learning and fun need to be balanced and need not be mutually exclusive, Burgundy tends to err on the side of taking advantage of a glorious sunny day to have a few extra minutes of recess. Those are minutes that could have been used to learn multiplication facts ... but at the end of their time at Burgundy, they'll know those facts and a lot else too."

I am not OP, but I am curious about your comment on kids at the end of spectrum. We're laid back family, so we haven't wanted to ask too much about differentiation/acceleration and would prefer not to be flagged as pushy or delusional. Plus, I don't really believe achievement matters until kids are older. But, does BFCS make every child do the same thing for math and reading all the time? So, for example, if a kid in K adds, subtracts, skip counts, reads, etc., would the child just sit there fidgeting in the group during those subjects? When do teachers break kids into small groups for core subjects, if ever?

[Anonymous]

K reading is in tiny groups at tables throughout the day. So, a child who is reading would not be sitting in a group with a child working on letter sounds. Everyone sits together in morning circle to review the plans of the day. This, of course, does involve readers of different levels.

1st-5th grade is a combination of group-read books for discussion, and individually selected reading at the appropriate reading level. Children who aren't inclined to stretch themselves will find a teacher engages them in a conversation about choosing books, and guidance is offered that balances interest and "stretch."

Research methods and techniques are introduced in 2nd and 3rd grade, and heavily emphasized in 4th and 5th. Students do individual research projects that fall under the larger topic being studied. If the integrated unit is Colonial America, each student focuses on his/her own topic, and is pushed to to challenge him/her self. The end "product" can vary by the ability of the student.

Math is Everyday Math, with extensions for those looking for extra challenges. Middle School math is using a math program developed by a Potomac School math teacher. There is not a TAG/AAP program like in public schools, but there are challenge problems at each level. A 6th or 7th grader will find challenge problems in every section/assignment of the math curriculum. Though algebra isn't taught in 6th and 7th grade, the curriculum actually includes alot of algebra. Problem solving is emphasized.

The school's literature used to say it serves average and above average students. I do not know if it still says that in its publications. There is a significantly "above average" (huge understatement but I won't feed the test score trolls) student cohort in every class.

Sure, as a PP suggested, who the students are is part of the reason they get into the colleges they get in to. Same could be said for the students at any high school, public of private. Rather than assume these kids were accepted to highly regarded colleges "despite" Burgundy, you might try talking with those young men and women. They do not share PP's view of their Burgundy experience.

[Anonymous]

16:45 Which are you, teacher or administrator?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I am not OP, but I am curious about your comment on kids at the end of spectrum. We're laid back family, so we haven't wanted to ask too much about differentiation/acceleration and would prefer not to be flagged as pushy or delusional. Plus, I don't really believe achievement matters until kids are older. But, does BFCS make every child do the same thing for math and reading all the time? So, for example, if a kid in K adds, subtracts, skip counts, reads, etc., would the child just sit there fidgeting in the group during those subjects? When do teachers break kids into small groups for core subjects, if ever?

Yes, in K this would definitely be the case. You can ask for differentiation but they will remind you that the focus in K is not to learn facts and get ahead in Math or any subject but the emotional and social growth of children, learning to follow routines, learning how to learn, etc. I know this because this is the answer I got as did many others when asked for differentiation in reading and writing.

For what its worth though, K has very little time spent do pen and pencil type work sitting at a desk. They spend a lot of time outdoors and engaging in play and most of the learning activities are group learning activities.

As many PP have already stated, if you are looking for a very rigorous academic environment where kids are going to be engaged in worksheets, workbooks, listening to teachers recite, sitting quietly, etc. Burgundy is not the school to look at it. It would never claim to be any of those things and yes the teachers and admin would tell you that.

[Anonymous]

Not a Burgundy parent - but hopefully this comment will be helpful. A few years back we applied to K assuming that no teacher should be expected to come up with specialized curriculum for our child (who was into all sorts of "advanced" stuff that other kids were not). The deal we made with our private was that if our kid finished work early, that they would be able to read books of their choosing (from the class library) or write/draw in their journal, pretty much anything but do an unreasonable amount of work sheets or other busy work. For kids that know how to behave, this was a simple, effective solution. That was the only 'accommodation' we received for 9 years. When we applied for K, we did not choose Burgundy because we were worried that our child needed more structure, but in hindsight - Burgundy would have been a great choice for our inquisitive and motivated child. Going into HS, DC is a strong student and happy kid. SSAT scores were great (supposedly, the estimated SAT scores they would qualify DC for any school in the country....... Point is, I don't think that DC would not be seen as super gifted, rather he's an eager and inquisitive learner. Those are the right kids for a school like Burgundy......

[Anonymous]

Not a Burgundy parent

So you don't actually know anything about Burgundy, correct?

[Anonymous]

This is 10:16 again. Regarding whether very high IQ children would be well served, I would say that it would depend on how self-motivated that child was.

If a child actively seeks to extend projects, do extra more-advanced work (by asking for challenge spelling lists and math extension worksheets, for example), reading more challenging books, and so forth ... then by all means, s/he will be aided and abetted by the wonderful teachers. The teachers seem fully aware of which children really want to do the more advanced work and will facilitate that at every turn.

However, some very bright children use that brightness to gain themselves extra recess time ... they can complete the days learning very quickly and love that they can do so but do not seek extra work. Such a child would be gently encouraged to make more use of their exceptional intellect but not forced to do so. So I personally feel that those types of bright children might be better served by a school that is really geared for their level of ability right from the get-go.

And a final type of gifted child (that anyone spending much time on DCUM will be familiar with) is the above-average bright child that is actually pretty much the norm for the DC area. Those kids will be well served by Burgundy, in my opinion. Their parents, however, might not feel their child is being adequately challenged at all times. Such parents (not to overgeneralize) tend to be the ones that pull the teachers aside to tell them that Junior is really quite exceptional in areas x,y, and z and should really be provided more challenging work than the other kids. I am quite certain that most private school teachers in this area get that a lot ... but they are pretty good judges of the strengths of their students and are already attempting to meet kids' needs as best they can. This is why (I suspect) Burgundy teachers pay more attention to a child's request for more challenge than to a parent's request for the same. Hopefully I phrased this gently and diplomatically.

[Anonymous]

OP here. 10:16, your previous post is very thoughtful and helpful in teasing out whether BFCD is the right school for our DC. Thank you. I fear DC is the type of gifted child that will love getting extra recess time.

As a parent, my dilemma is trying to figure out if it's okay just to let this be or whether we should encourage (rather than push) DC to do more with said gift. Ideally, we'd like a balanced environment where there's strong encouragement to excel and challenge oneself, without that turning into an excessively pressured environment where grades are all.

Which do you think are the schools that are better "geared for their level of ability right from the get go"? In particular, are there schools with teaching environments that encourage doing one's best and challenging one's self, rather than competition with others? We want to avoid schools that foster a zero sum game approach to academics.

[Anonymous]

What a bunch of Burgundy Haters! I challenge all these people who are criticizing Burgundy to say what school they're in currently, and also to admit whether they were accepted or rejected to BFCDS (I'm guessing the latter).

Look at Burgundy's list of Current HS attendance, which out of 74 listed schools includes Albert Einstein High School, Georgetown Day School, The Madeira School, The Potomac School, The Madeira School, Maret School, Sidwell Friends School, St. Albans School, St. Stephen’s & St. Agnes School, Thomas Jefferson High School for Science & Technology, Washington International School.

Among 98 listed, currently attended colleges: Bates College, Brown University, Bucknell University, The College of William & Mary, Columbia University, Dartmouth College, Dickinson College, Duke University, Emory University, Georgetown University, Harvard University, McGill University, Johns Hopkins University, Peabody Institute, New York University, Oberlin College, Northwestern University, Pomona College, Radford University, Princeton University, Smith College, University of California at Berkeley, Wesleyan University, Vanderbilt University, Yale University, Vassar College.

I find that it’s rare for schools to publish college attendance information, so I feel the opposite, that it distinguishes Burgundy.

On following the Alexandria PS curriculum, I’m sure parts of that are true and parts false. I agree that days aren’t filled with worksheets and held to standards set by NCLB, which have worked out so well for our country. Do you want rigid academics, or are other life lessons and knowledge important as well. I think PS do great job given their resources, but with NCLB pressure it’s very hard to focus way beyond academics

OP, I advise you to look at Exmissions, to look at the curriculum, both of which are easily found on the website. And visit. And think of what’s important to you for your child. Look at the diversity. One of the current K classes has 3 black students, two asian students, and two biracial students among others, out of 17 children. To me that’s actual diversity not talked about diversity. And consider that everyone is anonymous on this blog, so it’s very easy to say whatever.

And look at what else is offered. Do you like the idea of co-oping? Of mixed learning? Of visits to a 500 acre campus in WVA, of low student-teacher ratios? Of your child wanting to go to school every day?

And I think what people forget is that parents are extremely crucial. I do believe they do differentiated learning based on experience seeing separate small reading and math groups, but it may or may not be enough for you. How about the novel concept of working with your own children. If you feel they need a little extra math, do it with them, find a tutor, go to Kumon, etc… Read to and have your child read to you every night. If you’re worried, have your child tested, or I’m sure it’s easy to obtain online tests these days.

I’m sure this will spark some responses, so have at it

[Anonymous]

Good grief, PP. The only person going over-board on this thread is you. Protesting a bit much, eh?