Math Competition Success (and congratulations)

[Anonymous]

If the USA is losing its competitive global edge, as the lay press has expounded over the last decade; to what countries are we losing this edge?

Is the answer the post above in any way "vaguely" related to your question below?

10:11 ... I was referring the the American winners and the fact that they are largely Asian Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What leaps out at me from the first link listing the winners is the high proportion of the kids that are asian. This is a consistent result when looking at math competitions or just admissions to magnet schools. So the question of which area schools have a better math curriculum is not really the point ... instead, how do asian families support and encourage the math talents of their children and to what extent do asian families choose public magnets versus good privates and why are the questions I would rather discuss.

Yes, lots of Asian-Americans, including from China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea. Also South Asians (India, Pakistan), and former-Soviet Union. I'm not from one of these groups, but it is pretty clear to me that these countries (and citizens who come here) take math very seriously, and think it is key that their kids have good training in math - and if they don't get it at school they do at home. Often these families try to have their children in the public magnets, in large part because of cost and also because of the track record of commitment to math science.

[Anonymous]

Another important reason why high performing children of immigrant families may prefer public school magnet programs is simple; when one's child is performing 2 to 4 standard deviations from the mean in math and science why pay $30,000 to go to a private school that will throttle and smother a child's tragectory by impeding their progress while the rest of the class catches up. Instead, there is much more opportunity for advancement and acceleration in the public magnet school system for these talented and highly performing children. This explains why some of these programs routinely boast upwards of 30 to 40 percent of their studentry graduating every year as National Merit Semi-Finalists, AP Scholars, and bigtime Math, Science, Technology, Computer Science and Engineering (e.g., STEM) award winners.

When was the last time a capable 4th grader at GDS, STA, Sidwell, Maret and the like sat in a 9th or 10th grade class doing algebra 1 or geometry; or a capable 6th or 7th grader was allowed to take pre-Calculus or Calculus; or an 8th Grader allowed to take discrete mathematics or linear Algebra. There is more flexibility in the Public School magnet system for such accommodation when appropriate. One does not have to wait until the 11th or 12th grade to take an AP physics course. In fact, in my opinion, given scientific progress in molecular biology and chemistry today, physics ideally should be taken and understood well before chemistry and biology. To accomplish this would require a strong foundation in mathematics.

This is not the pathway for all ... or most. But, given the exceptional performing Asian American students (or any others for that matter), the public school magnet programs provide the best flexibility to accommodate unique and highly refined intellectual and academic talent. This is precisely what these programs were designed for. The private school academic programs are not designed for this and have an entirely different mission.

[Anonymous]

Is AMC done in HS only then at GDS? My DC's in MS and in the group from which AMC 8 kids would be recruited. I've seen them do CMLs, Math Olympiad, and know about the HS math team, so it struck me as odd that AMC hasn't come up if, in fact, the school participates regularly.

[Anonymous]

I like "tragectory," LOL! It's not a word, but should be.

[Anonymous]

Is AMC done in HS only then at GDS? My DC's in MS and in the group from which AMC 8 kids would be recruited. I've seen them do CMLs, Math Olympiad, and know about the HS math team, so it struck me as odd that AMC hasn't come up if, in fact, the school participates regularly.

AMC 8 is taken by kids in Grades 8 and below. My 4th grader will take this again for the second year (as well as AMC 10) on November 16. AMC 10, likewise can be taken by children in Grade 10 and below.

Schools offering the exam in the area can accommodate students or a Professor Scott (Math) Montgomery College, Germantown. He offers all the AMC exams yearly for those in institutions that do not proctor the exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another important reason why high performing children of immigrant families may prefer public school magnet programs is simple; when one's child is performing 2 to 4 standard deviations from the mean in math and science why pay $30,000 to go to a private school that will throttle and smother a child's tragectory by impeding their progress while the rest of the class catches up. Instead, there is much more opportunity for advancement and acceleration in the public magnet school system for these talented and highly performing children. This explains why some of these programs routinely boast upwards of 30 to 40 percent of their studentry graduating every year as National Merit Semi-Finalists, AP Scholars, and bigtime Math, Science, Technology, Computer Science and Engineering (e.g., STEM) award winners.

When was the last time a capable 4th grader at GDS, STA, Sidwell, Maret and the like sat in a 9th or 10th grade class doing algebra 1 or geometry; or a capable 6th or 7th grader was allowed to take pre-Calculus or Calculus; or an 8th Grader allowed to take discrete mathematics or linear Algebra. There is more flexibility in the Public School magnet system for such accommodation when appropriate. One does not have to wait until the 11th or 12th grade to take an AP physics course. In fact, in my opinion, given scientific progress in molecular biology and chemistry today, physics ideally should be taken and understood well before chemistry and biology. To accomplish this would require a strong foundation in mathematics.

This is not the pathway for all ... or most. But, given the exceptional performing Asian American students (or any others for that matter), the public school magnet programs provide the best flexibility to accommodate unique and highly refined intellectual and academic talent. This is precisely what these programs were designed for. The private school academic programs are not designed for this and have an entirely different mission.

True, kids don't sit in on upper level classes (at GDS and Sidwell, anyway, this would require a commute to the upper school), but there are activities and clubs very early on (from first grade, at GDS) that can recognize math talent and offer extra-curricular math.

At my private high school (not here, and admittedly a while ago), kids who had an aptitude for math were encouraged by math teachers to take the AMC, participate in Math Counts, trained for Math Olympiad, etc. Many kids took advantage of AP Calculus, and the true math whizzes got coached by the math teachers after school

[Anonymous]

True, kids don't sit in on upper level classes (at GDS and Sidwell, anyway, this would require a commute to the upper school), but there are activities and clubs very early on (from first grade, at GDS) that can recognize math talent and offer extra-curricular math.

At my private high school (not here, and admittedly a while ago), kids who had an aptitude for math were encouraged by math teachers to take the AMC, participate in Math Counts, trained for Math Olympiad, etc. Many kids took advantage of AP Calculus, and the true math whizzes got coached by the math teachers after school

I am happy to now hear the area private schools like STA, Sidwell, GDS and Maret provide these opportunities for their advanced Math students. This was not what I was told by administrators and teachers when I was on the private school tour 3 years ago. Progress is good.

[Anonymous]

I like "tragectory," LOL! It's not a word, but should be.

The honest opinion of a longstanding champion of the DCUMMIE Illiterati with barely enough freeze-dried grey matter to fill a tea bag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is AMC done in HS only then at GDS? My DC's in MS and in the group from which AMC 8 kids would be recruited. I've seen them do CMLs, Math Olympiad, and know about the HS math team, so it struck me as odd that AMC hasn't come up if, in fact, the school participates regularly.

MS did it last year, I think, but only in 7th grade. Not sure why, and doesn't look like they plan to do it this year. Difference between MS and HS is big.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am happy to now hear the area private schools like STA, Sidwell, GDS and Maret provide these opportunities for their advanced Math students. This was not what I was told by administrators and teachers when I was on the private school tour 3 years ago. Progress is good.

Truly, these private schools are quite ambivalent, and don't advertise this a lot (except now maybe GDS).

At the same time, the public magnets have their limits. The upper limit is just higher. And sometimes the details don't match up. Both TJ and Blair have pretty rigid curricula, w/ lots of prerequisites and hoops to jump through. Sometimes these frustrate high achieving students. Blair advertises that students can take classes at UMD, but in fact this is very very hard to do (UMD classes are taught in the middle of the day, when Blair students have other requirements). These upper limits aren't problems for most students, but don't go around thinking that "anything goes" at these schools. Budget problems in MoCo also have affected some Blair offerings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I like "tragectory," LOL! It's not a word, but should be.

The honest opinion of a longstanding champion of the DCUMMIE Illiterati with barely enough freeze-dried grey matter to fill a tea bag.

Nah, I just have a sense of humor and appreciate a clever turn of phrase, however unintentional, when I see one.

[Anonymous]

At the same time, the public magnets have their limits. The upper limit is just higher. And sometimes the details don't match up. Both TJ and Blair have pretty rigid curricula, w/ lots of prerequisites and hoops to jump through. Sometimes these frustrate high achieving students. Blair advertises that students can take classes at UMD, but in fact this is very very hard to do (UMD classes are taught in the middle of the day, when Blair students have other requirements). These upper limits aren't problems for most students, but don't go around thinking that "anything goes" at these schools. Budget problems in MoCo also have affected some Blair offerings.

The Blair Magnet Math curriculum has a number of undergraduate level Math courses (e.g., linear algebra, discrete mathematics) beyond the typical multivariable Calculus endpoint in most high schools. Sure TJ and Blair have high powered curricula. I'm sure if one's child has talent that has outstripped what is offered their already juiced and high-powered program the system will work with you. Some kids are quite creative with options (in STEM courses) at UMD, UMBC, Montgomery College that are not simply confined to the hours between 9 AM and 3 PM.

[Anonymous]

All educational systems have limits ... the private schools are just more limiting for some highly performing students in Mathematics.

[Anonymous]

All educational systems have limits ... the private schools are just more limiting for some highly performing students in Mathematics.

In general, I agree. Phillips Exeter Academy is an exception in Mathematics and Science.