Comparing TJ to Academies of Loudoun

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The very bottom kids at TJ are NOT as prepared for college as top kids at base school. These very bottom kids sit in lowest math and science classes and still struggling, masking their struggles year after year because they have no option to drop, wasting their time and accumulating years of not really progressing because they are in over their heads. It is sad, really.

Hot take.

You know that every school has a bottom 50%, right? And that the bottom 50% of TJ kids are still very smart and likely outpacing the bottom 50% at their base schools. Those kids have had to grind and maybe instead of seeing that as "sad," we see it as an opportunity to learn grit and resilience. I also disagree that they aren't ready for college--there is zero grade inflation at TJ and these kids have to work hard. They won't get into T20/Ivys (unless hooked) but my guess is most will be fine long-term.

Also, they can drop or be removed. The new principal sent a slew of sophomores back to base school at the end of last year bc they didn't pass Algebra 2.

Nope. 1) The bottom 20% are not learning grit and resilience. Which each year, they are falling behind more and more. By the time they are seniors, they are 2-3 years behind the level where they could /should have been. By that time, it is almost impossible for these kids to progress in class without a lot of extra support. And that kind of support is non-existent. If they had it, they would not end up in position they are in. 2) There are a lot, and I mean, a lot of kids with Ds and C-s in math and science on TJ, barely passing and moving in. Once again, by the time they get to college they are actually far behind their friends from base school - they used to be at about the same level in 8th grade but they fell behind while struggling this much at TJ.

Does TJ provide any support to the kids who struggle?

Yes, of course.

However, TJ also has a “policy” whereby students who cannot achieve at least a 3.0 or higher may be encouraged to return to their base school. This is not a requirement nor an absolute but rather more of a counseling-guideline. And it was largely suspended during the initial year of the revised admissions policy.

In theory, there should be few to no struggling students at TJ, after freshman year. And frankly, it’s better for all, if those students who discover TJ is not for them, step down to make way for the froshmores, who overwhelmingly tend to be highly-successful at TJ.

[Anonymous]

There is definitely grade inflation. The B policy makes it so. So do the retakes. And 70/30 split. The FCPS grading system doesn’t work well for TJ — creates lots of unmerited A’s and B’s.

[Anonymous]

I have never heard about grade inflation at TJ before now.

I have heard multiple complaints that (a) it is too hard and (b)?someone's DC is getting a lot of Cs at TJ but was an A/B student before TJ.

Is there actual data from FCPS or VA DoEd on the grade distribution at TJ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The very bottom kids at TJ are NOT as prepared for college as top kids at base school. These very bottom kids sit in lowest math and science classes and still struggling, masking their struggles year after year because they have no option to drop, wasting their time and accumulating years of not really progressing because they are in over their heads. It is sad, really.

TJ has effectively 100% AP participation rate and greater than 98% AP exam pass rates. Very frequently some subgroups have 100% AP exam annual pass rates. Look at the public data. The "bottom" at TJ where kids fail and struggle to pass AP is around 2% at most. Overall TJ kids are passing at rates that are leagues above all other schools.

A 3 on the AP exam is passing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is definitely grade inflation. The B policy makes it so. So do the retakes. And 70/30 split. The FCPS grading system doesn’t work well for TJ — creates lots of unmerited A’s and B’s.

Welp, a lot of teachers at TJ didn't get the memo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The very bottom kids at TJ are NOT as prepared for college as top kids at base school. These very bottom kids sit in lowest math and science classes and still struggling, masking their struggles year after year because they have no option to drop, wasting their time and accumulating years of not really progressing because they are in over their heads. It is sad, really.

This may be true at the very bottom (like the 10th or 20th percentile) but the 40th percentile?

The kids I've met who are like in the 25th-50th percentile at TJ are all very well prepared for college.

I agree, but the bottom 10 percent is probably better off at their base school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The very bottom kids at TJ are NOT as prepared for college as top kids at base school. These very bottom kids sit in lowest math and science classes and still struggling, masking their struggles year after year because they have no option to drop, wasting their time and accumulating years of not really progressing because they are in over their heads. It is sad, really.

TJ has effectively 100% AP participation rate and greater than 98% AP exam pass rates. Very frequently some subgroups have 100% AP exam annual pass rates. Look at the public data. The "bottom" at TJ where kids fail and struggle to pass AP is around 2% at most. Overall TJ kids are passing at rates that are leagues above all other schools.

If every student enrolls in atleast one AP course exam, the overall school is reported as 100% AP participation, doesn’t track whether they passed that one exam with atleast 3 score. TJ minimum graduation requirements force every student to enroll in atleast one AP course, like AP Calc AB. The bottom of the class take it in senior year, and still end up with C or Ds. The 2% you refer to end with a W, and are granted waiver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ is obviously better. How is this even a question?

It is not obvious to me. Please explain.
My child is debating where to go if selected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The very bottom kids at TJ are NOT as prepared for college as top kids at base school. These very bottom kids sit in lowest math and science classes and still struggling, masking their struggles year after year because they have no option to drop, wasting their time and accumulating years of not really progressing because they are in over their heads. It is sad, really.

Hot take.

You know that every school has a bottom 50%, right? And that the bottom 50% of TJ kids are still very smart and likely outpacing the bottom 50% at their base schools. Those kids have had to grind and maybe instead of seeing that as "sad," we see it as an opportunity to learn grit and resilience. I also disagree that they aren't ready for college--there is zero grade inflation at TJ and these kids have to work hard. They won't get into T20/Ivys (unless hooked) but my guess is most will be fine long-term.

Also, they can drop or be removed. The new principal sent a slew of sophomores back to base school at the end of last year bc they didn't pass Algebra 2.

Nope. 1) The bottom 20% are not learning grit and resilience. Which each year, they are falling behind more and more. By the time they are seniors, they are 2-3 years behind the level where they could /should have been. By that time, it is almost impossible for these kids to progress in class without a lot of extra support. And that kind of support is non-existent. If they had it, they would not end up in position they are in. 2) There are a lot, and I mean, a lot of kids with Ds and C-s in math and science on TJ, barely passing and moving in. Once again, by the time they get to college they are actually far behind their friends from base school - they used to be at about the same level in 8th grade but they fell behind while struggling this much at TJ.

You're just completely wrong on every level. And items presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

DP

There were at least 50 kids from the class of 2025 going to places like NOVA, Radford, & Marymount. This didn't used to be the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is obviously better. How is this even a question?

It is not obvious to me. Please explain.
My child is debating where to go if selected.

Honestly, you are not going to find a more intense academic environment in northern Virginia.
They will learn how to be good students the same way baby birds learn to fly. Survival instinct.
This is where your kid can learn to fly or get crushed on the rocks below.
TJ used to have a selection process that minimized the carcasses on the rocky shores below but now...

You know your kid. If they can handle it, TJ is probably a good experience for them over the long run. If they can't it can be depressing.

Also consider the commute. Most kids sleep or study during the commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is obviously better. How is this even a question?

It is not obvious to me. Please explain.
My child is debating where to go if selected.

Honestly, you are not going to find a more intense academic environment in northern Virginia.
They will learn how to be good students the same way baby birds learn to fly. Survival instinct.
This is where your kid can learn to fly or get crushed on the rocks below.
TJ used to have a selection process that minimized the carcasses on the rocky shores below but now...

You know your kid. If they can handle it, TJ is probably a good experience for them over the long run. If they can't it can be depressing.

Also consider the commute. Most kids sleep or study during the commute.

It would be helpful if parents with children at both AOL and TJ could give some perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The very bottom kids at TJ are NOT as prepared for college as top kids at base school. These very bottom kids sit in lowest math and science classes and still struggling, masking their struggles year after year because they have no option to drop, wasting their time and accumulating years of not really progressing because they are in over their heads. It is sad, really.

Hot take.

You know that every school has a bottom 50%, right? And that the bottom 50% of TJ kids are still very smart and likely outpacing the bottom 50% at their base schools. Those kids have had to grind and maybe instead of seeing that as "sad," we see it as an opportunity to learn grit and resilience. I also disagree that they aren't ready for college--there is zero grade inflation at TJ and these kids have to work hard. They won't get into T20/Ivys (unless hooked) but my guess is most will be fine long-term.

Also, they can drop or be removed. The new principal sent a slew of sophomores back to base school at the end of last year bc they didn't pass Algebra 2.

Nope. 1) The bottom 20% are not learning grit and resilience. Which each year, they are falling behind more and more. By the time they are seniors, they are 2-3 years behind the level where they could /should have been. By that time, it is almost impossible for these kids to progress in class without a lot of extra support. And that kind of support is non-existent. If they had it, they would not end up in position they are in. 2) There are a lot, and I mean, a lot of kids with Ds and C-s in math and science on TJ, barely passing and moving in. Once again, by the time they get to college they are actually far behind their friends from base school - they used to be at about the same level in 8th grade but they fell behind while struggling this much at TJ.

You're just completely wrong on every level. And items presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

DP

There were at least 50 kids from the class of 2025 going to places like NOVA, Radford, & Marymount. This didn't used to be the case.

So much for TJ prestige.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The very bottom kids at TJ are NOT as prepared for college as top kids at base school. These very bottom kids sit in lowest math and science classes and still struggling, masking their struggles year after year because they have no option to drop, wasting their time and accumulating years of not really progressing because they are in over their heads. It is sad, really.

Hot take.

You know that every school has a bottom 50%, right? And that the bottom 50% of TJ kids are still very smart and likely outpacing the bottom 50% at their base schools. Those kids have had to grind and maybe instead of seeing that as "sad," we see it as an opportunity to learn grit and resilience. I also disagree that they aren't ready for college--there is zero grade inflation at TJ and these kids have to work hard. They won't get into T20/Ivys (unless hooked) but my guess is most will be fine long-term.

Also, they can drop or be removed. The new principal sent a slew of sophomores back to base school at the end of last year bc they didn't pass Algebra 2.

Nope. 1) The bottom 20% are not learning grit and resilience. Which each year, they are falling behind more and more. By the time they are seniors, they are 2-3 years behind the level where they could /should have been. By that time, it is almost impossible for these kids to progress in class without a lot of extra support. And that kind of support is non-existent. If they had it, they would not end up in position they are in. 2) There are a lot, and I mean, a lot of kids with Ds and C-s in math and science on TJ, barely passing and moving in. Once again, by the time they get to college they are actually far behind their friends from base school - they used to be at about the same level in 8th grade but they fell behind while struggling this much at TJ.

You're just completely wrong on every level. And items presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

DP

There were at least 50 kids from the class of 2025 going to places like NOVA, Radford, & Marymount. This didn't used to be the case.

So much for TJ prestige.

If you're going for the prestige, you are doing it wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The very bottom kids at TJ are NOT as prepared for college as top kids at base school. These very bottom kids sit in lowest math and science classes and still struggling, masking their struggles year after year because they have no option to drop, wasting their time and accumulating years of not really progressing because they are in over their heads. It is sad, really.

Hot take.

You know that every school has a bottom 50%, right? And that the bottom 50% of TJ kids are still very smart and likely outpacing the bottom 50% at their base schools. Those kids have had to grind and maybe instead of seeing that as "sad," we see it as an opportunity to learn grit and resilience. I also disagree that they aren't ready for college--there is zero grade inflation at TJ and these kids have to work hard. They won't get into T20/Ivys (unless hooked) but my guess is most will be fine long-term.

Also, they can drop or be removed. The new principal sent a slew of sophomores back to base school at the end of last year bc they didn't pass Algebra 2.

Nope. 1) The bottom 20% are not learning grit and resilience. Which each year, they are falling behind more and more. By the time they are seniors, they are 2-3 years behind the level where they could /should have been. By that time, it is almost impossible for these kids to progress in class without a lot of extra support. And that kind of support is non-existent. If they had it, they would not end up in position they are in. 2) There are a lot, and I mean, a lot of kids with Ds and C-s in math and science on TJ, barely passing and moving in. Once again, by the time they get to college they are actually far behind their friends from base school - they used to be at about the same level in 8th grade but they fell behind while struggling this much at TJ.

You're just completely wrong on every level. And items presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

DP

There were at least 50 kids from the class of 2025 going to places like NOVA, Radford, & Marymount. This didn't used to be the case.

So much for TJ prestige.

If you're going for the prestige, you are doing it wrong.

I was referring to the fact that in the past, going to TJ actually meant something. Now you have to also wonder how that person did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The very bottom kids at TJ are NOT as prepared for college as top kids at base school. These very bottom kids sit in lowest math and science classes and still struggling, masking their struggles year after year because they have no option to drop, wasting their time and accumulating years of not really progressing because they are in over their heads. It is sad, really.

Hot take.

You know that every school has a bottom 50%, right? And that the bottom 50% of TJ kids are still very smart and likely outpacing the bottom 50% at their base schools. Those kids have had to grind and maybe instead of seeing that as "sad," we see it as an opportunity to learn grit and resilience. I also disagree that they aren't ready for college--there is zero grade inflation at TJ and these kids have to work hard. They won't get into T20/Ivys (unless hooked) but my guess is most will be fine long-term.

Also, they can drop or be removed. The new principal sent a slew of sophomores back to base school at the end of last year bc they didn't pass Algebra 2.

Nope. 1) The bottom 20% are not learning grit and resilience. Which each year, they are falling behind more and more. By the time they are seniors, they are 2-3 years behind the level where they could /should have been. By that time, it is almost impossible for these kids to progress in class without a lot of extra support. And that kind of support is non-existent. If they had it, they would not end up in position they are in. 2) There are a lot, and I mean, a lot of kids with Ds and C-s in math and science on TJ, barely passing and moving in. Once again, by the time they get to college they are actually far behind their friends from base school - they used to be at about the same level in 8th grade but they fell behind while struggling this much at TJ.

You're just completely wrong on every level. And items presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

DP

There were at least 50 kids from the class of 2025 going to places like NOVA, Radford, & Marymount. This didn't used to be the case.

So much for TJ prestige.

If you're going for the prestige, you are doing it wrong.

I was referring to the fact that in the past, going to TJ actually meant something. Now you have to also wonder how that person did.

Yep. Graduating from a place like TJ used to have significant signalling vallue. Now you need to see the transcript.