Harvard is not alone. UC students Without 8th Grade Math Skills Skyrockets

[Anonymous]

Yeah, the math thing is crazy these days. My kid is at an Ivy and was given a math placement test at the beginning of freshman year. He took Calculus AB in high school and was placed into Calculus 2. However it turns out that almost all his classmates took BC in high school. Except most did not actually learn the BC because they are now getting Cs and Ds in this course (the average on the exams has been in the 60s).
My kid has had two 99% so far and he is a humanities kid. He attended a grade-deflating, private high school which rarely accelerated kids in math.

How are these kids getting 60% on material that they already took in high school? And yet of course they got high As in high school as they got into an Ivy.

The state of high school math education is worrisome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The dirty little secret of the UC's is that they select a certain percentage from each high school, whether that high school is an overperforming one in Palo Alto or Irvine or an underperforming one in LAUSD.

Prior to tests being banned, the average SAT scores were low, below 1300 at most campuses.

Now that SATs are banned, the equity drive has seen the UC system oversubscribed with low performing students.

Hopefully these students can get the remediation they deserve so they can thrive in more difficult classes.

I’m confused. This isn’t a dirty secret but what most public university systems do. Look at conservative Texas, The UT and A&M system have exactly this and they find ways to make it work. If you want uber competitive only rich white/asian colleges, there’s many top privates to choose from.

UT found the way to make it work: UT is test required and that makes all the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, the math thing is crazy these days. My kid is at an Ivy and was given a math placement test at the beginning of freshman year. He took Calculus AB in high school and was placed into Calculus 2. However it turns out that almost all his classmates took BC in high school. Except most did not actually learn the BC because they are now getting Cs and Ds in this course (the average on the exams has been in the 60s).
My kid has had two 99% so far and he is a humanities kid. He attended a grade-deflating, private high school which rarely accelerated kids in math.

How are these kids getting 60% on material that they already took in high school? And yet of course they got high As in high school as they got into an Ivy.

The state of high school math education is worrisome.

DS’s math teacher tells everyone to retake calc 2 in college, even if they get a 5 on the AP, because apparently AP is not teaching enough calculus curriculum anymore. College is more rigorous about calculus content

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, the math thing is crazy these days. My kid is at an Ivy and was given a math placement test at the beginning of freshman year. He took Calculus AB in high school and was placed into Calculus 2. However it turns out that almost all his classmates took BC in high school. Except most did not actually learn the BC because they are now getting Cs and Ds in this course (the average on the exams has been in the 60s).
My kid has had two 99% so far and he is a humanities kid. He attended a grade-deflating, private high school which rarely accelerated kids in math.

How are these kids getting 60% on material that they already took in high school? And yet of course they got high As in high school as they got into an Ivy.

The state of high school math education is worrisome.

I can understand why parents are concern about an A- in high school math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The dirty little secret of the UC's is that they select a certain percentage from each high school, whether that high school is an overperforming one in Palo Alto or Irvine or an underperforming one in LAUSD.

Prior to tests being banned, the average SAT scores were low, below 1300 at most campuses.

Now that SATs are banned, the equity drive has seen the UC system oversubscribed with low performing students.

Hopefully these students can get the remediation they deserve so they can thrive in more difficult classes.

I’m confused. This isn’t a dirty secret but what most public university systems do. Look at conservative Texas, The UT and A&M system have exactly this and they find ways to make it work. If you want uber competitive only rich white/asian colleges, there’s many top privates to choose from.

UT found the way to make it work: UT is test required and that makes all the difference.

Haha how naive. https://catalog.utexas.edu/search/?P=M%20301" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://catalog.utexas.edu/search/?P=M%20301

M 301 (TCCN: MATH 1314). College Algebra.

Subjects include a brief review of elementary algebra; linear, quadratic, exponential, and logarithmic functions; polynomials; systems of linear equations; applications. Three lecture hours a week for one semester. May not be counted toward a degree in mathematics. Credit for Mathematics 301 may not be earned after a student has received credit for any calculus course with a grade of C- or better. Prerequisite: A passing score on the mathematics section of the Texas Higher Education Assessment (THEA) test (or an appropriate assessment test).

M 301 is the lowest-level "precalculus" course we offer. It should be an honest college algebra course, that is, not an intermediate algebra course (which is offered by community colleges and some four-year colleges and which is often equivalent to second-year high school algebra.) This syllabus is written for use in summer school (the only time we offer M 301). It assumes 26 lectures.
Chapter 1 Five Fundamental Themes 5 sections 4 lectures
Chapter 2 Algebraic Expressions 5 sections 4 lectures
Chapter 3 Equations and Inequalities 5 sections 5 lectures
Chapter 4 Graphs and Functions 4 sections 4 lectures
Chapter 5 Polynomial and Rational Functions 4 sections 4 lectures
Chapter 6 Exponential, Logarithmic Functions 4 sections 3 lectures
Chapter 7 Systems of Equations, Inequalities 3 sections 2 lectures

Tests aren’t saving you from this incompetent generation.

[Anonymous]

The actual report from UC San Diego was interesting to read. It is a tale of haves and have nots. Unfortunately it really is a case of public schools with significant numbers of poor / first generation students not teaching math well. These students are overrepresented in having to take Math 2 at UCSD. There isn't the same issue at Berkeley and UCLA.

Unfortunately CA just created new math curriculum standards that continues to dumb down math by not emphasizing computational skills. The problem is moronic math EDUCATION professors like Jo Boaler from Stanford Education Department are in charge of creating CA math standards for public schools. Actually math professors in the math department like Brian Conrad, professor of mathematics at Stanford University, found numerous errors in the framework. He analyzed the framework’s citations and documented many instances where the original findings of studies were distorted.

All students, including poor students who can't afford to sign up for supplemental math programs like Kumon, AOPS, RSM, deserve quality math classes.


The actual numbers are:

665 out of 7799 (so 8.5%) of incoming freshman placed into math 2 (level below pre-calculus).
MATH 2. Introduction to College Mathematics (4)
A highly adaptive course designed to build on students’ strengths while increasing overall mathematical understanding and skill. This multimodality course will focus on several topics of study designed to develop conceptual understanding and mathematical relevance: linear relationships; exponents and polynomials; rational expressions and equations; models of quadratic and polynomial functions and radical equations; exponential and logarithmic functions; and geometry and trigonometry. Workload credit only—not for baccalaureate credit. Must be taken for P/NP grading.

At the same time around half placed higher than math 20A which means they met this pre-requisite (3745 out of 7799 - so 48%):

MATH 20B. Calculus for Science and Engineering (4)
Integral calculus of one variable and its applications, with exponential, logarithmic, hyperbolic, and trigonometric functions. Methods of integration. Infinite series. Polar coordinates in the plane and complex exponentials. (Two units of credits given if taken after MATH 1B/10B or MATH 1C/10C.) Prerequisites: AP Calculus AB score of 4 or 5, or AP Calculus BC score of 3, or MATH 20A with a grade of C– or better, or MATH 10B with a grade of C– or better, or MATH 10C with a grade of C– or better.

[Anonymous]

Many California high schools allow for unlimited retakes, don't punish for late work, etc. The report details that many of these students come from low-income, English-learning environments.

Even if the UC's still used SAT's they would get the same quality of applicant since they select by high school.

Can you imagine being an OOS student paying $90k a year for something like this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many California high schools allow for unlimited retakes, don't punish for late work, etc. The report details that many of these students come from low-income, English-learning environments.

Even if the UC's still used SAT's they would get the same quality of applicant since they select by high school.

Can you imagine being an OOS student paying $90k a year for something like this?

UC San Diego ranks #29, right belwo UVA and USC... A T30 school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ 4.0 in Calculus can't pass Algebra” is not supported by what you demonstrated. You can have a 4.0 in mathematics and have never taken calculus.

These are students who has taken precal or calculus. Some of them have 4.0 math gpa. It's highly unlikely none of these have taken Calculus. Even assuming these are all precal 4.0, the point stands. You can't trust high school GPA.

No. The majority of the ones who couldn’t pass did not take calculus. Only 42% took calculus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ 4.0 in Calculus can't pass Algebra” is not supported by what you demonstrated. You can have a 4.0 in mathematics and have never taken calculus.

These are students who has taken precal or calculus. Some of them have 4.0 math gpa. It's highly unlikely none of these have taken Calculus. Even assuming these are all precal 4.0, the point stands. You can't trust high school GPA.

No. The majority of the ones who couldn’t pass did not take calculus. Only 42% took calculus.

How does someone take calculus without knowing basic algebra and get into UCSD?! Something is wrong.

[Anonymous]

That’s why I’ve been saying that UCs are not worth it OOS. There are other reasons too.

[Anonymous]

Why are we surprised? Pre-covid when UCs could use SAT's, the 25% SAT was only 1250. UCSD is supposedly the third best UC, behind Berkeley and UCLA.

Because they banned the SAT, there is no objective way to discern the academic competency of the students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many California high schools allow for unlimited retakes, don't punish for late work, etc. The report details that many of these students come from low-income, English-learning environments.

Even if the UC's still used SAT's they would get the same quality of applicant since they select by high school.

Can you imagine being an OOS student paying $90k a year for something like this?

What? Just because a small subset of students are taking beginner math, you are discounting the entire university? There are students at the lower end of the math spectrum at all schools, including top 10 private colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The dirty little secret of the UC's is that they select a certain percentage from each high school, whether that high school is an overperforming one in Palo Alto or Irvine or an underperforming one in LAUSD.

Prior to tests being banned, the average SAT scores were low, below 1300 at most campuses.

Now that SATs are banned, the equity drive has seen the UC system oversubscribed with low performing students.

Hopefully these students can get the remediation they deserve so they can thrive in more difficult classes.

Agree. Although it’s not a “secret” - the admissions data is right on the UC website for everyone to see.

Kids from these low performing schools have major deficiencies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many California high schools allow for unlimited retakes, don't punish for late work, etc. The report details that many of these students come from low-income, English-learning environments.

Even if the UC's still used SAT's they would get the same quality of applicant since they select by high school.

Can you imagine being an OOS student paying $90k a year for something like this?

I’m a California parent. Apparently MCPS allows for retakes. When I read that on DCUM, I was surprised. I also read there are “honors” classes for all students, regardless of capability or interest? My son is applying OOS to UMD and it definitely made me pause. What kind of students will be his classmates if the most competitive district in the state of MD (MCPS) has such lenient policies? At least in California, the top school districts are insanely competitive. Retakes? That would never happen at my child’s school.

They’re not for everyone, but as a California resident the UCs are a state treasure.