Subtle signs of emotional abuse?

[Anonymous]

How old are your children Op?

[Anonymous]

Why does this Op sound like another Troll rehash of a real topic yesterday but with online citations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The danger of these online articles is that all of us, ALL OF US, exhibit these characteristics. Anyone who claims to be blameless is a special kind of toxic. So if you look at your spouse, over a several-decade relationship, you'll see "subtle signs" of all kinds of dysfunction, because humans are all dysfunctional, flawed creatures. DARVO took over gaslighting as the diagnosis du jour, but the truth is that everyone gaslights sometimes, everyone has DARVO'd and will likely DARVO again.

What makes these things problems isn't the single issue or occasional presence of some of these characteristics. "Emotional abuse" is a long-term pattern of consistent behaviors, not being wrong/stupid/a jerk once. There has to be more to it than that, otherwise we're all "emotional abusers" and the whole idea loses meaning.

So while it's tempting to look at your spouse's behaviors and try to categorize them as THE dysfunction in your relationship, the more mature thing to ask is "where do I do this same thing?" Remember the old adage about pointing the finger, and how many fingers point back at you when you do. Then keep in mind that the only person you control is yourself, so there's not really much point in trying to label or blame others. If you're unhappy, leave. If you're honest enough to recognize your part in the problem (and 99% of the time, you have one), simply get about the business of adjusting your own behavior(s) and see what happens.

Posting one-sided stories on DCUM and asking strangers to validate your non-medical evaluation of a person they don't know is... a special kind of sick, honestly.

OP here: I get your point. The thing is, for about 1.5-2 years, I've seen behavior change. I am/was worried about cognitive decline b/c he's always been forgetful and not only is that worse, he's angry defensive about that. I just read that long thread on divorcing a narcissist and my H is not abusive in any physical way, nor does he do anything outside of the home that endangers anyone, even himself. I'm not "sick" though. On that point, I'll disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Crazy making
Twists your concerns or questions into personally attacking you for even asking.
“Forgets” mutual decisions
Name calling not discussing
Deflect
Excuses
Threats
Calls you crazy
Lies
Accusations
Zero conflict resolution- the underlying issue brought up is never addressed, instead there is a crazy horse & pony show argument
Rages
Threatens divorce to shut down conversations
Instantly charming to outsiders if the doorbell rings (ie IS in control of the anger and abuse).
Prioritizes the external ego and image versus inside the home to family.
Blows up, goes to bed, feels great the next day and “forgot” what even happened. Never circles back.
Agrees to do something, rarely does or does it incorrectly.
Blows up before your big events - a work trip, hosting a holiday, a big decision or presentation.

Wants to control and manipulate.

OP here: this is it. Before work trips and board meetings, he'll disappear rather than blow up, but that often makes me on the edge of late and starts the day off stressfully. That said, I'm really good at my job and usually over-prepared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The danger of these online articles is that all of us, ALL OF US, exhibit these characteristics. Anyone who claims to be blameless is a special kind of toxic. So if you look at your spouse, over a several-decade relationship, you'll see "subtle signs" of all kinds of dysfunction, because humans are all dysfunctional, flawed creatures. DARVO took over gaslighting as the diagnosis du jour, but the truth is that everyone gaslights sometimes, everyone has DARVO'd and will likely DARVO again.

What makes these things problems isn't the single issue or occasional presence of some of these characteristics. "Emotional abuse" is a long-term pattern of consistent behaviors, not being wrong/stupid/a jerk once. There has to be more to it than that, otherwise we're all "emotional abusers" and the whole idea loses meaning.

So while it's tempting to look at your spouse's behaviors and try to categorize them as THE dysfunction in your relationship, the more mature thing to ask is "where do I do this same thing?" Remember the old adage about pointing the finger, and how many fingers point back at you when you do. Then keep in mind that the only person you control is yourself, so there's not really much point in trying to label or blame others. If you're unhappy, leave. If you're honest enough to recognize your part in the problem (and 99% of the time, you have one), simply get about the business of adjusting your own behavior(s) and see what happens.

Posting one-sided stories on DCUM and asking strangers to validate your non-medical evaluation of a person they don't know is... a special kind of sick, honestly.

Lol

Patterns are patterns. Know your truth.

I emailed myself at a separate account everytime he did this.

It’s disgusting to read that inbox.

The abuser really tried to isolate you as well. From friends and family. It could be their maladaptive cope to attempt to forget about their constant mistakes and poor comms, it could be deliberate, it could be both.

He told me to stay away from a specific friend one who is a master of ... strategy. It's their job. I haven't "kept records" but am starting now because I do think he's getting worse. Somebody asked about conditions. He has ADHD and won't get any treatment for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crazy making
Twists your concerns or questions into personally attacking you for even asking.
“Forgets” mutual decisions
Name calling not discussing
Deflect
Excuses
Threats
Calls you crazy
Lies
Accusations
Zero conflict resolution- the underlying issue brought up is never addressed, instead there is a crazy horse & pony show argument
Rages
Threatens divorce to shut down conversations
Instantly charming to outsiders if the doorbell rings (ie IS in control of the anger and abuse).
Prioritizes the external ego and image versus inside the home to family.
Blows up, goes to bed, feels great the next day and “forgot” what even happened. Never circles back.
Agrees to do something, rarely does or does it incorrectly.
Blows up before your big events - a work trip, hosting a holiday, a big decision or presentation.

Wants to control and manipulate.

OP here: this is it. Before work trips and board meetings, he'll disappear rather than blow up, but that often makes me on the edge of late and starts the day off stressfully. That said, I'm really good at my job and usually over-prepared.

Why does this put you on edge?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How old are your children Op?

A tween and a teen.
Somebody asked if I was from another thread. No. I haven't been on for quite awhile; like over a week. Also, I don't ever visit this forum unless I think a thread will entertain me so am new here and unfamiliar with relationship trolls. I found that thread on NPD very helpful and fairly supportive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’re usually a frog in a pot of water brought to boiling. Keep a journal of reality, hide it daily, use it as a reference, go back and see how frequent the BS, gaslighting and lies are.

I think keeping a journal is a good idea. And if your DH isn't a total jerk, try pushing back with clear statements about how he is arguing. "I don't like how you are making me feel guilty for your actions". When you push back, if he doubles down or gets enraged, you know what you need to do. If you are eventually able to have some clear conversations with him about how he's interacting, great. But after 19 years a lot of your habits will be engrained pretty hard so shifting them healthier will be a huge amount of work. Only you know if it's worth it.

[Anonymous]

Lundy Bancroft is the author everyone seems to read regarding abusive men, and he does have a book "Should I Stay or Should I Go?". OP might find it helpful. Probably better to read as an e-book so husband doesn't see it.

Frankly, I don't remember much about the book, because, once you're buying books like that one, you probably know it's time to go.

Last thing--not to sound paranoid, but a lot of therapists are terrible at understanding abuse. I dealt with multiple therapists around the time my marriage ended. Some totally got it. Others made the situation worse. So tread carefully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lundy Bancroft is the author everyone seems to read regarding abusive men, and he does have a book "Should I Stay or Should I Go?". OP might find it helpful. Probably better to read as an e-book so husband doesn't see it.

Frankly, I don't remember much about the book, because, once you're buying books like that one, you probably know it's time to go.

Last thing--not to sound paranoid, but a lot of therapists are terrible at understanding abuse. I dealt with multiple therapists around the time my marriage ended. Some totally got it. Others made the situation worse. So tread carefully.

Thanks for the warning. I tried for months to find a good therapist for myself a few years ago and finally found one. I think had first meetings with three or four before i found my match.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tread lightly here, because once you start seeing these patterns you will want to start standing up and defending yourself and your kid. That risks escalating the abuse because your DH will interpret this as a personal attack.

Seek your own therapy first to help you process the emotions this discovery is uncovering and offer some tips for changing your communication based on this new awareness.

OP here: I was shocked when the videos I watched on DARVO said to not confront and couples counseling wouldn't work. Seems bleak.

It’s not bleak, but there is a period of destabilisation that you can manage with support. If there’s enough love between you and your spouse, it can work.

But, the lions share of the work will be on you at least in the beginning. These abuser types, though, are actually pretty predictable and once you learn the patterns and learn your own strategies for coping things can restabalize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tread lightly here, because once you start seeing these patterns you will want to start standing up and defending yourself and your kid. That risks escalating the abuse because your DH will interpret this as a personal attack.

Seek your own therapy first to help you process the emotions this discovery is uncovering and offer some tips for changing your communication based on this new awareness.

OP here: I was shocked when the videos I watched on DARVO said to not confront and couples counseling wouldn't work. Seems bleak.

OP I was you a year ago. This same thing happened to me and I did bring his attention to it. Things got worse for a little while (more fights, push back as it says online it will at first) but now he seems be be maturing more. Most men are immature emotionally and need help learning to grow (if you want to bother staying he will need to grow up) if you throw your hands up and give up you can leave. It all depends on how much you want to save the relationship. I also think you need to read books on codependence which often goes hand in hand.

Make sure are always standing up for yourself, pay attention to your emotions, speak up calmly not in anger with him. Once he sees you growing and changing it will help him too. Men have pride and won't often change but the good ones will grow if you try and help them and have some patience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does this Op sound like another Troll rehash of a real topic yesterday but with online citations?

What are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

I second the recommendation for Lundy Bancroft - I read "Why Does He Do That" (available online for free as a pdf) and found it illuminating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The danger of these online articles is that all of us, ALL OF US, exhibit these characteristics. Anyone who claims to be blameless is a special kind of toxic. So if you look at your spouse, over a several-decade relationship, you'll see "subtle signs" of all kinds of dysfunction, because humans are all dysfunctional, flawed creatures. DARVO took over gaslighting as the diagnosis du jour, but the truth is that everyone gaslights sometimes, everyone has DARVO'd and will likely DARVO again.

What makes these things problems isn't the single issue or occasional presence of some of these characteristics. "Emotional abuse" is a long-term pattern of consistent behaviors, not being wrong/stupid/a jerk once. There has to be more to it than that, otherwise we're all "emotional abusers" and the whole idea loses meaning.

So while it's tempting to look at your spouse's behaviors and try to categorize them as THE dysfunction in your relationship, the more mature thing to ask is "where do I do this same thing?" Remember the old adage about pointing the finger, and how many fingers point back at you when you do. Then keep in mind that the only person you control is yourself, so there's not really much point in trying to label or blame others. If you're unhappy, leave. If you're honest enough to recognize your part in the problem (and 99% of the time, you have one), simply get about the business of adjusting your own behavior(s) and see what happens.

Posting one-sided stories on DCUM and asking strangers to validate your non-medical evaluation of a person they don't know is... a special kind of sick, honestly.

OP here: I get your point. The thing is, for about 1.5-2 years, I've seen behavior change. I am/was worried about cognitive decline b/c he's always been forgetful and not only is that worse, he's angry defensive about that. I just read that long thread on divorcing a narcissist and my H is not abusive in any physical way, nor does he do anything outside of the home that endangers anyone, even himself. I'm not "sick" though. On that point, I'll disagree.

NP in the middle of a divorce from an abusive DH. I was in denial for years. It became financial and verbal and eventually extended to our children.

I initially gave DH every benefit of the doubt, and cognitive decline was something I was certain explained what was going on. Or maybe a parasite from a trip to South America. Or maybe a head injury from playing touch football a few months before.

The point is, by the time you’re contorting yourself to find any other explanation for what’s going on except for considering that it’s emotional abuse, it’s probably emotional abuse. In my experience, at least.