Why are DC schools the pits?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because you don't really understand how the school system works here. Lots of people don't go to their zoned school. They lottery into charter schools or non-charter schools that accept lottery students. It's not at all unusual. And that's how you end up with high-value houses in low-rated school zones.

Also, houses closer to the center of the city are worth more, regardless of their school. Obviously.

So, they have schools for the rich?

pretty much. two different types:
a) DCPS schools where nearly all the housing in boundary is very expensive and there are few spots in the lottery for out of bounds (often harder to get to via public transit as well)

b) charter schools that require a lot of parental involvement, encourage kids to leave if they underperform, and have models that are not as attractive to most lower-income families.

Which charter schools REQUIRE a lot of parental involvement? That's a red herring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because you don't really understand how the school system works here. Lots of people don't go to their zoned school. They lottery into charter schools or non-charter schools that accept lottery students. It's not at all unusual. And that's how you end up with high-value houses in low-rated school zones.

Also, houses closer to the center of the city are worth more, regardless of their school. Obviously.

So, they have schools for the rich?

pretty much. two different types:
a) DCPS schools where nearly all the housing in boundary is very expensive and there are few spots in the lottery for out of bounds (often harder to get to via public transit as well)

b) charter schools that require a lot of parental involvement, encourage kids to leave if they underperform, and have models that are not as attractive to most lower-income families.

It's just remarkable to me that they are that low.

Some of the zoned schools are indeed pretty low, but DC parents don't have to send their kids to zoned schools. That is different than the suburbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely no one moves to DC for the public schools. It's assumed you don't have kids, or you don't care about your kids, or your kids are going to private. Real estate values in DC are completely detached from the public schools.

Not true. There is a bump for zoning to JR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because you don't really understand how the school system works here. Lots of people don't go to their zoned school. They lottery into charter schools or non-charter schools that accept lottery students. It's not at all unusual. And that's how you end up with high-value houses in low-rated school zones.

Also, houses closer to the center of the city are worth more, regardless of their school. Obviously.

So, they have schools for the rich?

pretty much. two different types:
a) DCPS schools where nearly all the housing in boundary is very expensive and there are few spots in the lottery for out of bounds (often harder to get to via public transit as well)

b) charter schools that require a lot of parental involvement, encourage kids to leave if they underperform, and have models that are not as attractive to most lower-income families.

It's just remarkable to me that they are that low.

Some of the zoned schools are indeed pretty low, but DC parents don't have to send their kids to zoned schools. That is different than the suburbs.

I find suburbanites often don’t even think of options that are common in DC, like choosing a school near your work or on your way to work.

[Anonymous]

1) tons of poverty
2) decades of messy administration
3) private and charter options that allow people to avoid their zoned school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because you don't really understand how the school system works here. Lots of people don't go to their zoned school. They lottery into charter schools or non-charter schools that accept lottery students. It's not at all unusual. And that's how you end up with high-value houses in low-rated school zones.

Also, houses closer to the center of the city are worth more, regardless of their school. Obviously.

So, they have schools for the rich?

pretty much. two different types:
a) DCPS schools where nearly all the housing in boundary is very expensive and there are few spots in the lottery for out of bounds (often harder to get to via public transit as well)

b) charter schools that require a lot of parental involvement, encourage kids to leave if they underperform, and have models that are not as attractive to most lower-income families.

Which charter schools REQUIRE a lot of parental involvement? That's a red herring.

PP is talking about schools like LAMB or Yu Ying, whose models (immersion, Montessori) only work when parents can provide quite a bit of support outside of school. Some parents will view that as a "red flag" but others view it as a way to essentially screen out kids who lack involved, supportive parents at home, which helps cut down in behavioral problems and usually ensures a higher average level of academics.

[Anonymous]

If you're poor, home is unstable, your parents are uneducated, they don't support you at home, and your schools themselves are hit or miss, you're not going to see great results.

Also, everyone else is self-sorting away from you, so all other results are by comparison higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1) tons of poverty
2) decades of messy administration
3) private and charter options that allow people to avoid their zoned school

The lottery also enables families to send kids to zoned schools outside their zone.

We are zoned for a school with low test scores and a lot of other issues, but our kid attends a nearby DCPS we got into via the lottery in K. The school is about 70% inbound but the rest are families like ours, who sought it out because we liked it more than our own boundary option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My eyes are glazing over from reading all the bullshit on this thread, but there's an easy answer to OP's question on the home values: most home buyers don't care about the quality of the local public schools and make their buying decisions on a whole host of factors. It's a common misconception on this board that the perceived quality of the public schools is the be all and end all when not comes to home values and that's just not true. Only a minority of home buyers ever plan to use the schools in many close in neighborhoods, and many couldn't even tell you what the schools are.

This. In the DC real estate market, UMC buyers with school-age children considering enrolling the kids in public schools are a tiny fraction of buyers overall. I've been on CH for 30 years, and it's easy to see that far more empty nesters are buying these days than even 10 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My eyes are glazing over from reading all the bullshit on this thread, but there's an easy answer to OP's question on the home values: most home buyers don't care about the quality of the local public schools and make their buying decisions on a whole host of factors. It's a common misconception on this board that the perceived quality of the public schools is the be all and end all when not comes to home values and that's just not true. Only a minority of home buyers ever plan to use the schools in many close in neighborhoods, and many couldn't even tell you what the schools are.

This. In the DC real estate market, UMC buyers with school-age children considering enrolling the kids in public schools are a tiny fraction of buyers overall. I've been on CH for 30 years, and it's easy to see that far more empty nesters are buying these days than even 10 years ago.

The northwest premium per square foot makes zero sense without accounting for school. There’s even a big discontinuity between houses zoned for Deal and JR off 16th street and and those that aren’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My eyes are glazing over from reading all the bullshit on this thread, but there's an easy answer to OP's question on the home values: most home buyers don't care about the quality of the local public schools and make their buying decisions on a whole host of factors. It's a common misconception on this board that the perceived quality of the public schools is the be all and end all when not comes to home values and that's just not true. Only a minority of home buyers ever plan to use the schools in many close in neighborhoods, and many couldn't even tell you what the schools are.

This. In the DC real estate market, UMC buyers with school-age children considering enrolling the kids in public schools are a tiny fraction of buyers overall. I've been on CH for 30 years, and it's easy to see that far more empty nesters are buying these days than even 10 years ago.

The northwest premium per square foot makes zero sense without accounting for school. There’s even a big discontinuity between houses zoned for Deal and JR off 16th street and and those that aren’t.

The northwest premium is more because of an outdated prejudice. The perception is that if you are a successful white person you will either live in NW or on Capitol Hill. It takes a slightly countercultural person who has lived here for more than a year or two to even look outside of those boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely no one moves to DC for the public schools. It's assumed you don't have kids, or you don't care about your kids, or your kids are going to private. Real estate values in DC are completely detached from the public schools.

Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My eyes are glazing over from reading all the bullshit on this thread, but there's an easy answer to OP's question on the home values: most home buyers don't care about the quality of the local public schools and make their buying decisions on a whole host of factors. It's a common misconception on this board that the perceived quality of the public schools is the be all and end all when not comes to home values and that's just not true. Only a minority of home buyers ever plan to use the schools in many close in neighborhoods, and many couldn't even tell you what the schools are.

This. In the DC real estate market, UMC buyers with school-age children considering enrolling the kids in public schools are a tiny fraction of buyers overall. I've been on CH for 30 years, and it's easy to see that far more empty nesters are buying these days than even 10 years ago.

The northwest premium per square foot makes zero sense without accounting for school. There’s even a big discontinuity between houses zoned for Deal and JR off 16th street and and those that aren’t.

The northwest premium is more because of an outdated prejudice. The perception is that if you are a successful white person you will either live in NW or on Capitol Hill. It takes a slightly countercultural person who has lived here for more than a year or two to even look outside of those boundaries.

Above is true. But I will say that there are many UMC families like ours who do not live in those areas and live EOTP who are at charters. In my kid’s group of friends, parents are doctors, lawyers, etc…

We could afford WOTP or CH but chose not to move there or to the burbs because we got into a charter we were happy with and now are at DCI.

Charters are what is keeping UMC families in the city. Otherwise we would have moved to the burbs. IMO ROI for schools better in burns than WOTP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My eyes are glazing over from reading all the bullshit on this thread, but there's an easy answer to OP's question on the home values: most home buyers don't care about the quality of the local public schools and make their buying decisions on a whole host of factors. It's a common misconception on this board that the perceived quality of the public schools is the be all and end all when not comes to home values and that's just not true. Only a minority of home buyers ever plan to use the schools in many close in neighborhoods, and many couldn't even tell you what the schools are.

This. In the DC real estate market, UMC buyers with school-age children considering enrolling the kids in public schools are a tiny fraction of buyers overall. I've been on CH for 30 years, and it's easy to see that far more empty nesters are buying these days than even 10 years ago.

The northwest premium per square foot makes zero sense without accounting for school. There’s even a big discontinuity between houses zoned for Deal and JR off 16th street and and those that aren’t.

Yea and you probably think pregnant women shouldn't take Tylenol.

Association does not mean causation.

On a price per square foot basis, for example, both Logan Circle and Adams Morgan are higher than Woodley Park. But only Woodley Park is zone for JR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My eyes are glazing over from reading all the bullshit on this thread, but there's an easy answer to OP's question on the home values: most home buyers don't care about the quality of the local public schools and make their buying decisions on a whole host of factors. It's a common misconception on this board that the perceived quality of the public schools is the be all and end all when not comes to home values and that's just not true. Only a minority of home buyers ever plan to use the schools in many close in neighborhoods, and many couldn't even tell you what the schools are.

This. In the DC real estate market, UMC buyers with school-age children considering enrolling the kids in public schools are a tiny fraction of buyers overall. I've been on CH for 30 years, and it's easy to see that far more empty nesters are buying these days than even 10 years ago.

The northwest premium per square foot makes zero sense without accounting for school. There’s even a big discontinuity between houses zoned for Deal and JR off 16th street and and those that aren’t.

The northwest premium is more because of an outdated prejudice. The perception is that if you are a successful white person you will either live in NW or on Capitol Hill. It takes a slightly countercultural person who has lived here for more than a year or two to even look outside of those boundaries.

Above is true. But I will say that there are many UMC families like ours who do not live in those areas and live EOTP who are at charters. In my kid’s group of friends, parents are doctors, lawyers, etc…

We could afford WOTP or CH but chose not to move there or to the burbs because we got into a charter we were happy with and now are at DCI.

Charters are what is keeping UMC families in the city. Otherwise we would have moved to the burbs. IMO ROI for schools better in burns than WOTP.

That's true. Brookland is full of high achieving parents, mostly sending their kids to charters.