What's covered/what proficiency is reached at each level of Spanish (or other languages)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Classroom foreign language skills have little to do with real world foreign language skills. My teen DD just started Spanish 5. She cannot follow rapid-fire Spanish news on TV or hold a conversation with a native speaker. She doesn't have enough vocabulary and fluency.

But she can read some texts, while more or less correctly guessing at the words she doesn't actually know, and write grammatically correct sentences within the narrow limits of what she does know.

She's always had straight As in all her Spanish classes and she is bilingual in French, which I think helps her Spanish a little bit.

This sounds right for an American high school student who has gotten good grades but has had no experience with non-academic language use (e.g., no significant travel or study abroad).

I was about at this level in French after 5 years of study (non-AP). I minored in French in college. By the end of that, my accent was improved, I understood more sophisticated and literary grammar structures but did not independently use them on the fly, I could watch movies with subtitling and listen some while also reading, and I could write longer paragraphs on short-answer essay questions.

Due to lack of overseas experience, I could only hold simple conversations but people liked hearing my accent. There was always a lot of vocabulary that would leave me stumped. For example, I couldn't figure out what menu expression meant "Happy Meal" in Francophone Canada. But I could slowly read a 19th century novel.

My kid in non-DMV school took 4 years of high-school Spanish ending in DP Spanish SL. He also had about 1 year of it in middle school and scattered "specials" work in elementary school. He struggled in Spanish 4 in his first semester at his selective flagship, receiving a C+ that is his worst grade to date. His classes in high school were conversation-oriented and did not focus carefully on grammar and correct spelling. But he still got As for being towards the top of his classes.

You don't need to travel to a foreign country to practice Spanish if you live in MoCo.

[Anonymous]

How much Spanish does a kid need to know to be ready for Spanish 2 at MCPS?

[Anonymous]

My kid passed B1 French recently. Currently in French 5 and it feels like an appropriate level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid passed B1 French recently. Currently in French 5 and it feels like an appropriate level.

Where do you test for that and why does a high schooler take that test? Qualifying for a job?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't find this written up anywhere (please point me to it if it exists!)-- would folks be willing to share brief descriptions of roughly what each level of MCPS Spanish looks like?

It would be super helpful to know generally what kinds of things they do/learn each year, and what a kid is expected to come out of the year with in order to be prepared for the next level. I'd also be interested to hear what kinds of things kids *are* able to do at what level even if it's not related to school success and what their level of proficiency looks/feels like (things like, at what level a kid might be able to mostly follow a Spanish language movie or TV show with Spanish subtitles on? Read a graphic novel on Spanish? Get by during travel in a Spanish-speaking country? Etc). If you are familiar with formal proficiency ratings like CEFR/DELE or ACTFL, please feel free to use those to describe, if it's easier.

I know this is kind of a big ask so feel free to just describe one or two levels if you're not up for all of them! And feel free to share info from other languages besides Spanish...

My kid is in AP Spanish Lit and can do everything you described. She can translate in both directions, volunteered over the summer at a job speaking Spanish exclusively, and got a 5 on her Spanish Lang AP last year. She's conspicuously caucasian and neither of her parents are fluent in Spanish (one passed an AP forever ago and rarely uses it, but has some understanding; the other has literally no education here). She has traveled without any trouble; even several years ago, she was able to converse with strangers in decent-enough Spanish to be easily understood, and had no trouble reading signs or having conversations. She has friends who are native speakers and no issues socializing exclusively in Spanish.

We put the subtitles on the switch in Spanish, listen to music in Spanish, and make a point of watching shows in Spanish (now with Spanish subtitles, not English), but she's not getting drill and kill at home. She definitely didn't get her skills from her parents; she surpassed our abilities a long time ago! She's a smart kid, so that helps, but I think her abilities show that the program definitely works if your kid pays attention and tries to actually use the language. She has actively looked for ways to practice; I think that's essential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Classroom foreign language skills have little to do with real world foreign language skills. My teen DD just started Spanish 5. She cannot follow rapid-fire Spanish news on TV or hold a conversation with a native speaker. She doesn't have enough vocabulary and fluency.

But she can read some texts, while more or less correctly guessing at the words she doesn't actually know, and write grammatically correct sentences within the narrow limits of what she does know.

She's always had straight As in all her Spanish classes and she is bilingual in French, which I think helps her Spanish a little bit.

This sounds right for an American high school student who has gotten good grades but has had no experience with non-academic language use (e.g., no significant travel or study abroad).

I was about at this level in French after 5 years of study (non-AP). I minored in French in college. By the end of that, my accent was improved, I understood more sophisticated and literary grammar structures but did not independently use them on the fly, I could watch movies with subtitling and listen some while also reading, and I could write longer paragraphs on short-answer essay questions.

Due to lack of overseas experience, I could only hold simple conversations but people liked hearing my accent. There was always a lot of vocabulary that would leave me stumped. For example, I couldn't figure out what menu expression meant "Happy Meal" in Francophone Canada. But I could slowly read a 19th century novel.

My kid in non-DMV school took 4 years of high-school Spanish ending in DP Spanish SL. He also had about 1 year of it in middle school and scattered "specials" work in elementary school. He struggled in Spanish 4 in his first semester at his selective flagship, receiving a C+ that is his worst grade to date. His classes in high school were conversation-oriented and did not focus carefully on grammar and correct spelling. But he still got As for being towards the top of his classes.

You don't need to travel to a foreign country to practice Spanish if you live in MoCo.

This may be sarcasm, but it's also a beautiful truth: there are plenty of opportunities to practice Spanish here, including ordering and enjoying some great food!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, an average MCPS grad A student who finished AP (level 5) could not do any of the things you mentioned. They can fight their way through a few paragraphs of text or a paragraph of audio with written text support.

This has not been our experience at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't find this written up anywhere (please point me to it if it exists!)-- would folks be willing to share brief descriptions of roughly what each level of MCPS Spanish looks like?

It would be super helpful to know generally what kinds of things they do/learn each year, and what a kid is expected to come out of the year with in order to be prepared for the next level. I'd also be interested to hear what kinds of things kids *are* able to do at what level even if it's not related to school success and what their level of proficiency looks/feels like (things like, at what level a kid might be able to mostly follow a Spanish language movie or TV show with Spanish subtitles on? Read a graphic novel on Spanish? Get by during travel in a Spanish-speaking country? Etc). If you are familiar with formal proficiency ratings like CEFR/DELE or ACTFL, please feel free to use those to describe, if it's easier.

I know this is kind of a big ask so feel free to just describe one or two levels if you're not up for all of them! And feel free to share info from other languages besides Spanish...

My kid is in AP Spanish Lit and can do everything you described. She can translate in both directions, volunteered over the summer at a job speaking Spanish exclusively, and got a 5 on her Spanish Lang AP last year. She's conspicuously caucasian and neither of her parents are fluent in Spanish (one passed an AP forever ago and rarely uses it, but has some understanding; the other has literally no education here). She has traveled without any trouble; even several years ago, she was able to converse with strangers in decent-enough Spanish to be easily understood, and had no trouble reading signs or having conversations. She has friends who are native speakers and no issues socializing exclusively in Spanish.

We put the subtitles on the switch in Spanish, listen to music in Spanish, and make a point of watching shows in Spanish (now with Spanish subtitles, not English), but she's not getting drill and kill at home. She definitely didn't get her skills from her parents; she surpassed our abilities a long time ago! She's a smart kid, so that helps, but I think her abilities show that the program definitely works if your kid pays attention and tries to actually use the language. She has actively looked for ways to practice; I think that's essential.

This is precisely it. Your kid has engulfed themselves in their language, has practiced outside and even watched tv in Spanish. Most kids don’t do this and parents believe that a 45 mins a day is enough for a kid to acquire a language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't find this written up anywhere (please point me to it if it exists!)-- would folks be willing to share brief descriptions of roughly what each level of MCPS Spanish looks like?

It would be super helpful to know generally what kinds of things they do/learn each year, and what a kid is expected to come out of the year with in order to be prepared for the next level. I'd also be interested to hear what kinds of things kids *are* able to do at what level even if it's not related to school success and what their level of proficiency looks/feels like (things like, at what level a kid might be able to mostly follow a Spanish language movie or TV show with Spanish subtitles on? Read a graphic novel on Spanish? Get by during travel in a Spanish-speaking country? Etc). If you are familiar with formal proficiency ratings like CEFR/DELE or ACTFL, please feel free to use those to describe, if it's easier.

I know this is kind of a big ask so feel free to just describe one or two levels if you're not up for all of them! And feel free to share info from other languages besides Spanish...

My kid is in AP Spanish Lit and can do everything you described. She can translate in both directions, volunteered over the summer at a job speaking Spanish exclusively, and got a 5 on her Spanish Lang AP last year. She's conspicuously caucasian and neither of her parents are fluent in Spanish (one passed an AP forever ago and rarely uses it, but has some understanding; the other has literally no education here). She has traveled without any trouble; even several years ago, she was able to converse with strangers in decent-enough Spanish to be easily understood, and had no trouble reading signs or having conversations. She has friends who are native speakers and no issues socializing exclusively in Spanish.

We put the subtitles on the switch in Spanish, listen to music in Spanish, and make a point of watching shows in Spanish (now with Spanish subtitles, not English), but she's not getting drill and kill at home. She definitely didn't get her skills from her parents; she surpassed our abilities a long time ago! She's a smart kid, so that helps, but I think her abilities show that the program definitely works if your kid pays attention and tries to actually use the language. She has actively looked for ways to practice; I think that's essential.

Your daughter had substantial skills because of:

1) Traveling
2) Native speaker friends
3) An in-language job

All of those go well beyond what the curriculum provides and arguably would be equivalent to study/living abroad.

I agree that practice is essential. In some communities, the top Spanish students might have Spanish in the home or as a heritage language. In others, that's not common at all. So I'd be careful about distinguishing the abilities derived from taking the classes from those derived from real-world experience.

Lack of real-world experience is one of the reasons Americans are so comparatively poor at foreign languages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't find this written up anywhere (please point me to it if it exists!)-- would folks be willing to share brief descriptions of roughly what each level of MCPS Spanish looks like?

It would be super helpful to know generally what kinds of things they do/learn each year, and what a kid is expected to come out of the year with in order to be prepared for the next level. I'd also be interested to hear what kinds of things kids *are* able to do at what level even if it's not related to school success and what their level of proficiency looks/feels like (things like, at what level a kid might be able to mostly follow a Spanish language movie or TV show with Spanish subtitles on? Read a graphic novel on Spanish? Get by during travel in a Spanish-speaking country? Etc). If you are familiar with formal proficiency ratings like CEFR/DELE or ACTFL, please feel free to use those to describe, if it's easier.

I know this is kind of a big ask so feel free to just describe one or two levels if you're not up for all of them! And feel free to share info from other languages besides Spanish...

My kid is in AP Spanish Lit and can do everything you described. She can translate in both directions, volunteered over the summer at a job speaking Spanish exclusively, and got a 5 on her Spanish Lang AP last year. She's conspicuously caucasian and neither of her parents are fluent in Spanish (one passed an AP forever ago and rarely uses it, but has some understanding; the other has literally no education here). She has traveled without any trouble; even several years ago, she was able to converse with strangers in decent-enough Spanish to be easily understood, and had no trouble reading signs or having conversations. She has friends who are native speakers and no issues socializing exclusively in Spanish.

We put the subtitles on the switch in Spanish, listen to music in Spanish, and make a point of watching shows in Spanish (now with Spanish subtitles, not English), but she's not getting drill and kill at home. She definitely didn't get her skills from her parents; she surpassed our abilities a long time ago! She's a smart kid, so that helps, but I think her abilities show that the program definitely works if your kid pays attention and tries to actually use the language. She has actively looked for ways to practice; I think that's essential.

This is precisely it. Your kid has engulfed themselves in their language, has practiced outside and even watched tv in Spanish. Most kids don’t do this and parents believe that a 45 mins a day is enough for a kid to acquire a language.

Is this really the "oh, WOW!" you're framing it as? Your kid knows how to operate the language selection and subtitles on Netflix. They either want to learn, or they don't. 45 minutes a day of actual practice is plenty; it adds up pretty quick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't find this written up anywhere (please point me to it if it exists!)-- would folks be willing to share brief descriptions of roughly what each level of MCPS Spanish looks like?

It would be super helpful to know generally what kinds of things they do/learn each year, and what a kid is expected to come out of the year with in order to be prepared for the next level. I'd also be interested to hear what kinds of things kids *are* able to do at what level even if it's not related to school success and what their level of proficiency looks/feels like (things like, at what level a kid might be able to mostly follow a Spanish language movie or TV show with Spanish subtitles on? Read a graphic novel on Spanish? Get by during travel in a Spanish-speaking country? Etc). If you are familiar with formal proficiency ratings like CEFR/DELE or ACTFL, please feel free to use those to describe, if it's easier.

I know this is kind of a big ask so feel free to just describe one or two levels if you're not up for all of them! And feel free to share info from other languages besides Spanish...

My kid is in AP Spanish Lit and can do everything you described. She can translate in both directions, volunteered over the summer at a job speaking Spanish exclusively, and got a 5 on her Spanish Lang AP last year. She's conspicuously caucasian and neither of her parents are fluent in Spanish (one passed an AP forever ago and rarely uses it, but has some understanding; the other has literally no education here). She has traveled without any trouble; even several years ago, she was able to converse with strangers in decent-enough Spanish to be easily understood, and had no trouble reading signs or having conversations. She has friends who are native speakers and no issues socializing exclusively in Spanish.

We put the subtitles on the switch in Spanish, listen to music in Spanish, and make a point of watching shows in Spanish (now with Spanish subtitles, not English), but she's not getting drill and kill at home. She definitely didn't get her skills from her parents; she surpassed our abilities a long time ago! She's a smart kid, so that helps, but I think her abilities show that the program definitely works if your kid pays attention and tries to actually use the language. She has actively looked for ways to practice; I think that's essential.

Your daughter had substantial skills because of:

1) Traveling
2) Native speaker friends
3) An in-language job

All of those go well beyond what the curriculum provides and arguably would be equivalent to study/living abroad.

I agree that practice is essential. In some communities, the top Spanish students might have Spanish in the home or as a heritage language. In others, that's not common at all. So I'd be careful about distinguishing the abilities derived from taking the classes from those derived from real-world experience.

Lack of real-world experience is one of the reasons Americans are so comparatively poor at foreign languages.

You put it backwards. My kid spoke Spanish when she traveled because she chose to practice. She could've spoken English (like I did). She has native speaker friends because she has skills. They didn't teach her; she showed enough respect to learn their language, and now she can socialize with them. She got the in-language job with the skills she already had, because she committed to practicing her language skills for several years prior. Sure, it counts as ongoing practice every time she uses her Spanish, but she couldn't have gotten the job without getting the skills first. While she was encouraged to do this, she wasn't forced. She wanted a second language, so she took the classes and practiced the skills.

I think the real problem seems to be a lot of (white) parents making excuses for why the school should be doing it all for them (pretty typical; just read this forum). They seem to want one public school class a year to be all of the work required, with only the bare minimum effort. If my kid hadn't done her math homework, and studied outside of class, she wouldn't have math skills either. You need to actually practice these things. US residents don't want for opportunities to speak foreign languages, especially in this area. There are free conversation classes at the library, plenty of books in Spanish, and simple technology to change things into another language so you can practice. Duolingo has a free mode... People may lack the give-a-damn to actually engage, maybe, but that's a personal decision, not a logistics issue.

My kid isn't special. She's not stupid, but you don't have to be a genius to pick up a second language. You just have to be willing to try instead of willing to whine about how it wasn't handed to you.

[Anonymous]

Going through this now. Where are parents finding extra support in Spanish that’s actually helpful. Duolingo isnt cutting it especially if they aren’t repeating the words!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Going through this now. Where are parents finding extra support in Spanish that’s actually helpful. Duolingo isnt cutting it especially if they aren’t repeating the words!

Practicing every now and then on the street or ordering food is great. But I recommend a professional tutor. We used an online tutor through iTalki. There are different price levels, experience levels, and some just do conversation practice while others are credentialed teachers.

We found an excellent teacher based in Costa Rica who helped our son immensely over the course of a year.

[Anonymous]

It also depends on whether a student is in the immersion program or not. Generally, immersion kids have a lot more practice speaking and writing, and have studied other subjects in Spanish, but haven't gotten the grammar down as well as kids who spent the last couple of years focusing more on grammar but don't have the practical experience. Yet they are together in Spanish 4.

[Anonymous]

If a kid wanted to skip Spanish 1, what would they need to know/be able to do that kids coming out of Spanish 1 have already learned/can do, so that they wouldn't be behind in Spanish 2? What does a "ready for Spanish 2" kid look like?