Trying to understand Duke common data set

[Anonymous]

Some subset of kids submit both so it is not as simple as adding the two up. Most college counselors think that subset is around 10%.

Either way Duke has a large number of test optional admits. Many come from their backyard commitment in the Carolinas, along with their division one athletics program. they will never go back to requiring tests because they have a lot more flexibility with both of those institutional priorities being test optional (same with Northwestern btw).

Many independent counselors will tell you that without an extraordinary personal achievement or hook being admitted test optional is not possible.

A hook can be anything from being an actor on TV or in theater, a nationally accomplished polo player, who is not being recruited, an Olympic medalist, an accomplished music composer etc.

[Anonymous]

In our school’s naviance we can check a TO box and it shows who applied TO. Not many. No accepts (but few either way).

[Anonymous]

The math on this crowd is insane.


FWIW, ED is a big boost for Duke from our private. RD very tough

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, adding these to 77% means that, at a minimum, 33% of the enrolled freshmen for that year did not submit scores.

that would mean 23%, not 33. Dean Guttentag has stated that less than quarter of the incoming class was admitted test optional, though that was in 2023. whatever exact number, it is consistent with the statements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In our school’s naviance we can check a TO box and it shows who applied TO. Not many. No accepts (but few either way).

same. ED is a boost over RD. our private has been strongly discouraging TO for any T20ish since 2023. A couple are on there as TO. None got in.

[Anonymous]

Since COVID in 20 & 21 TO has not really been TO. Sure there are anecdotal exceptions and a lot depends on background of submitter. But for the typical DCUMer your best bet is to submit a score that validates your kid’s outstanding GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, adding these to 77% means that, at a minimum, 33% of the enrolled freshmen for that year did not submit scores.

that would mean 23%, not 33. Dean Guttentag has stated that less than quarter of the incoming class was admitted test optional, though that was in 2023. whatever exact number, it is consistent with the statements.

Dean G said about a 1/3 (or 30% - can’t recall) were TO last year - was in a CAP podcast. I posted about it last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, adding these to 77% means that, at a minimum, 33% of the enrolled freshmen for that year did not submit scores.

Your math is off, at minimum 23% of enrolled students didn't submit scores. Keep in mind for a school like Duke with a big athletic program the TO admits may mainly be athletes or other hooked applicants.

Duke is very well known for its sports but does not have significantly more athletes than other schools. So as a percentage of the student body, the number of athletes is not giant - for example, Duke has more than 3x the number of students as Williams, yet probably less than 2x the number of athletes. The flip side is that it is big compared to Michigan, Texas, etc. which don't have that many more athletes than Duke yet have several times the number of students.

Guttentag said last year that he wanted to see at least one or two cohorts of TO kids graduate to evaluate how they did. Guttentag also likely didn't want to make a lasting decision when he knew he was about to retire (which he did). I believe there is now an interim Dean. I'm sure that as they interview for a permanent Dean that is a question being asked.

As an alum (from one of the first classes admitted by Guttentag) I am hoping they get rid of TO. And if average test scores go down slightly, so be it. In the 80s Duke was obsessive about moving up in the rankings. Now Duke should be comfortable in who it is and if USN&WR decides that it should lower Duke's ranking slightly because test scores are down, who cares. The Duke brand is strong enough to withstand that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some subset of kids submit both so it is not as simple as adding the two up. Most college counselors think that subset is around 10%.

Either way Duke has a large number of test optional admits. Many come from their backyard commitment in the Carolinas, along with their division one athletics program. they will never go back to requiring tests because they have a lot more flexibility with both of those institutional priorities being test optional (same with Northwestern btw).

Many independent counselors will tell you that without an extraordinary personal achievement or hook being admitted test optional is not possible.

A hook can be anything from being an actor on TV or in theater, a nationally accomplished polo player, who is not being recruited, an Olympic medalist, an accomplished music composer etc.

Know many kids who get into northwestern TO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, adding these to 77% means that, at a minimum, 33% of the enrolled freshmen for that year did not submit scores.

That is just crazy. So 33% of Duke's class had under a 1500. Kind of shocking.

How is that shocking? Those numbers are actually some the highest I’ve seen (meaning the % who submitted).

Many selective schools have around 60% submitting, and even lower.

[Anonymous]

I'm sure included in those hooks for test optional are some faculty/staff kids and local kids from Durham Public Schools (underfunded district - less than 40% from our zoned DPS high school go on to a 4 yr college). My kid met both those criteria and got in test optional (very strong applicant otherwise) though opted to attend elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Furthermore, as far as I can tell, the 23-24 CDS is the most recent one Duke has published. This data is for fall 2023 freshmen, who graduated high school in 2023 and are enrolled in Duke's class of 2027.

I have not seen 24-25.

24 / 25 is on their website: https://provost.duke.edu/sites/default/files/CDS-2024-25-Final.xlsx

Interesting that the 25th percentile for math dropped 20 pts from the year prior, from 780 to 760.

Omg what happened, 20 F points! Oh no let's lower Duke in the national rankings, remidal math class for all new students!!!