Timeline and Criteria for MS Magnets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In addition, from the first quarter/marking period, your DC must have an A in Math, an A in Science and an at or above on-grade reading level.

.



Thanks a lot. I was confused about the above. Are you talking about As in those subject for the first quarter/marking period of grade 5 or the kid’s whole elementary school career?

First marking period of grade 5 only. It’s pretty stupid if you ask me. We had an ELA teacher who openly admitted to subjective grading and giving B’s to “motivate” students.

All this magnet selection stuff is done very narrowly and is pretty stupid in my opinion. I sent my 99 pct COGAT third grade kid to school when she wasn’t 100 pct feeling well one day and it turned out to be MAP-R testing day (unannounced) and her score was well below her normal 95 pct plus level. But since they don’t look at COGAT to choose for CES and only look at one MAP data point, guess whose kid wasn’t deemed eligible for CES lottery?

I hope you appealed.

Nope. I didn't know "appeals" existed for CES. I'm not sure on what grounds I would be able to appeal on anyway. MCPS doesn't look at COGAT for selection to CES, and their narrow criteria for the MAP tests is stupid but it's clearly defined.

You can appeal to get into the wait pool if you can demonstrate "A unique hardship impacted a student’s academic profile"-- not sure how high the bar is on that and whether illness would count. (Also you can appeal if there was a genuine error in their data.) Your chances are pretty low to get in at that point because the first round of kids have already been selected so it's just to fill slots for kids who decline or drop out later on, but it's possible.

That’s not true. There are also kids who get accepted to both middle school magnet programs in the first round (math and humanities), but they can only accept one, as well as kids who were selected for one program in the first round and placed in the waitpool for the other program, then in the second round they are selected from the waitpool for the other program and decide they’d rather go there instead. There’s some movement on the second round.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In addition, from the first quarter/marking period, your DC must have an A in Math, an A in Science and an at or above on-grade reading level.

.



Thanks a lot. I was confused about the above. Are you talking about As in those subject for the first quarter/marking period of grade 5 or the kid’s whole elementary school career?

First marking period of grade 5 only. It’s pretty stupid if you ask me. We had an ELA teacher who openly admitted to subjective grading and giving B’s to “motivate” students.

All this magnet selection stuff is done very narrowly and is pretty stupid in my opinion. I sent my 99 pct COGAT third grade kid to school when she wasn’t 100 pct feeling well one day and it turned out to be MAP-R testing day (unannounced) and her score was well below her normal 95 pct plus level. But since they don’t look at COGAT to choose for CES and only look at one MAP data point, guess whose kid wasn’t deemed eligible for CES lottery?

I hope you appealed.

Nope. I didn't know "appeals" existed for CES. I'm not sure on what grounds I would be able to appeal on anyway. MCPS doesn't look at COGAT for selection to CES, and their narrow criteria for the MAP tests is stupid but it's clearly defined.

I hope they still allow appeals. Back when my now senior was in third grade, dc had the highest MAP-R score in their class (the teacher told us), but not the requisite CogAt score. (Kid has disability related to math, but math isn’t part of CES.) This was pre Covid, before CES admissions was lottery based. My kid wasn’t even considered for the first round of admissions or in the waitpool. I appealed by describing my child’s abilities and submitting a high quality writing sample my child had written outside of school. The decision on my dc’s eligibility was reversed on appeal and my dc was placed in the waitpool before the second round of admissions. DC ended up being randomly selected from the waitpool of qualified applicants, attended a CES, and did very well. In your case, I would have submitted previous MAP-R scores to illustrate that my dc’s illness during the most recent MAP testing had affected their performance.

I’m not saying all this to make you feel like you feel any regret; I’m sharing it because appeals used to work a fair amount of the time. If they still work in some cases now, parents should avail themselves of every possible recourse. You’ve got nothing to lose by trying.

DP, but I think what’s the point. Best it gets you is a spot in the pool, post-lottery, and chances are slim to none your child gets a seat from there. MCPS has really made a mess of all of this. I don’t see why magnets are even needed in elementary and middle school, and especially not the way MCPS does it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In addition, from the first quarter/marking period, your DC must have an A in Math, an A in Science and an at or above on-grade reading level.

.



Thanks a lot. I was confused about the above. Are you talking about As in those subject for the first quarter/marking period of grade 5 or the kid’s whole elementary school career?

First marking period of grade 5 only. It’s pretty stupid if you ask me. We had an ELA teacher who openly admitted to subjective grading and giving B’s to “motivate” students.

All this magnet selection stuff is done very narrowly and is pretty stupid in my opinion. I sent my 99 pct COGAT third grade kid to school when she wasn’t 100 pct feeling well one day and it turned out to be MAP-R testing day (unannounced) and her score was well below her normal 95 pct plus level. But since they don’t look at COGAT to choose for CES and only look at one MAP data point, guess whose kid wasn’t deemed eligible for CES lottery?

I hope you appealed.

Nope. I didn't know "appeals" existed for CES. I'm not sure on what grounds I would be able to appeal on anyway. MCPS doesn't look at COGAT for selection to CES, and their narrow criteria for the MAP tests is stupid but it's clearly defined.

You can appeal to get into the wait pool if you can demonstrate "A unique hardship impacted a student’s academic profile"-- not sure how high the bar is on that and whether illness would count. (Also you can appeal if there was a genuine error in their data.) Your chances are pretty low to get in at that point because the first round of kids have already been selected so it's just to fill slots for kids who decline or drop out later on, but it's possible.

That’s not true. There are also kids who get accepted to both middle school magnet programs in the first round (math and humanities), but they can only accept one, as well as kids who were selected for one program in the first round and placed in the waitpool for the other program, then in the second round they are selected from the waitpool for the other program and decide they’d rather go there instead. There’s some movement on the second round.

The question would be, if MCPS made a mistake that an appeal identified, does MCPS ensure that the student ends up with similar chances for magnet education than they would have had if the mistake had not been made. The answer is, resoundingly, "No."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In addition, from the first quarter/marking period, your DC must have an A in Math, an A in Science and an at or above on-grade reading level.

.



Thanks a lot. I was confused about the above. Are you talking about As in those subject for the first quarter/marking period of grade 5 or the kid’s whole elementary school career?

First marking period of grade 5 only. It’s pretty stupid if you ask me. We had an ELA teacher who openly admitted to subjective grading and giving B’s to “motivate” students.

All this magnet selection stuff is done very narrowly and is pretty stupid in my opinion. I sent my 99 pct COGAT third grade kid to school when she wasn’t 100 pct feeling well one day and it turned out to be MAP-R testing day (unannounced) and her score was well below her normal 95 pct plus level. But since they don’t look at COGAT to choose for CES and only look at one MAP data point, guess whose kid wasn’t deemed eligible for CES lottery?

I hope you appealed.

Nope. I didn't know "appeals" existed for CES. I'm not sure on what grounds I would be able to appeal on anyway. MCPS doesn't look at COGAT for selection to CES, and their narrow criteria for the MAP tests is stupid but it's clearly defined.

You can appeal to get into the wait pool if you can demonstrate "A unique hardship impacted a student’s academic profile"-- not sure how high the bar is on that and whether illness would count. (Also you can appeal if there was a genuine error in their data.) Your chances are pretty low to get in at that point because the first round of kids have already been selected so it's just to fill slots for kids who decline or drop out later on, but it's possible.

That’s not true. There are also kids who get accepted to both middle school magnet programs in the first round (math and humanities), but they can only accept one, as well as kids who were selected for one program in the first round and placed in the waitpool for the other program, then in the second round they are selected from the waitpool for the other program and decide they’d rather go there instead. There’s some movement on the second round.

The question would be, if MCPS made a mistake that an appeal identified, does MCPS ensure that the student ends up with similar chances for magnet education than they would have had if the mistake had not been made. The answer is, resoundingly, "No."

They don’t have the same odds as if they’d been in the lottery from the beginning because they missed the first round of admissions, but they have exactly the same odds of being admitted in the second and third rounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In addition, from the first quarter/marking period, your DC must have an A in Math, an A in Science and an at or above on-grade reading level.

.



Thanks a lot. I was confused about the above. Are you talking about As in those subject for the first quarter/marking period of grade 5 or the kid’s whole elementary school career?

First marking period of grade 5 only. It’s pretty stupid if you ask me. We had an ELA teacher who openly admitted to subjective grading and giving B’s to “motivate” students.

All this magnet selection stuff is done very narrowly and is pretty stupid in my opinion. I sent my 99 pct COGAT third grade kid to school when she wasn’t 100 pct feeling well one day and it turned out to be MAP-R testing day (unannounced) and her score was well below her normal 95 pct plus level. But since they don’t look at COGAT to choose for CES and only look at one MAP data point, guess whose kid wasn’t deemed eligible for CES lottery?

I hope you appealed.

Nope. I didn't know "appeals" existed for CES. I'm not sure on what grounds I would be able to appeal on anyway. MCPS doesn't look at COGAT for selection to CES, and their narrow criteria for the MAP tests is stupid but it's clearly defined.

You can appeal to get into the wait pool if you can demonstrate "A unique hardship impacted a student’s academic profile"-- not sure how high the bar is on that and whether illness would count. (Also you can appeal if there was a genuine error in their data.) Your chances are pretty low to get in at that point because the first round of kids have already been selected so it's just to fill slots for kids who decline or drop out later on, but it's possible.

That’s not true. There are also kids who get accepted to both middle school magnet programs in the first round (math and humanities), but they can only accept one, as well as kids who were selected for one program in the first round and placed in the waitpool for the other program, then in the second round they are selected from the waitpool for the other program and decide they’d rather go there instead. There’s some movement on the second round.

The question would be, if MCPS made a mistake that an appeal identified, does MCPS ensure that the student ends up with similar chances for magnet education than they would have had if the mistake had not been made. The answer is, resoundingly, "No."

They don’t have the same odds as if they’d been in the lottery from the beginning because they missed the first round of admissions, but they have exactly the same odds of being admitted in the second and third rounds.

Which is, quite clearly, not the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In addition, from the first quarter/marking period, your DC must have an A in Math, an A in Science and an at or above on-grade reading level.

.



Thanks a lot. I was confused about the above. Are you talking about As in those subject for the first quarter/marking period of grade 5 or the kid’s whole elementary school career?

First marking period of grade 5 only. It’s pretty stupid if you ask me. We had an ELA teacher who openly admitted to subjective grading and giving B’s to “motivate” students.

All this magnet selection stuff is done very narrowly and is pretty stupid in my opinion. I sent my 99 pct COGAT third grade kid to school when she wasn’t 100 pct feeling well one day and it turned out to be MAP-R testing day (unannounced) and her score was well below her normal 95 pct plus level. But since they don’t look at COGAT to choose for CES and only look at one MAP data point, guess whose kid wasn’t deemed eligible for CES lottery?

I hope you appealed.

Nope. I didn't know "appeals" existed for CES. I'm not sure on what grounds I would be able to appeal on anyway. MCPS doesn't look at COGAT for selection to CES, and their narrow criteria for the MAP tests is stupid but it's clearly defined.

I hope they still allow appeals. Back when my now senior was in third grade, dc had the highest MAP-R score in their class (the teacher told us), but not the requisite CogAt score. (Kid has disability related to math, but math isn’t part of CES.) This was pre Covid, before CES admissions was lottery based. My kid wasn’t even considered for the first round of admissions or in the waitpool. I appealed by describing my child’s abilities and submitting a high quality writing sample my child had written outside of school. The decision on my dc’s eligibility was reversed on appeal and my dc was placed in the waitpool before the second round of admissions. DC ended up being randomly selected from the waitpool of qualified applicants, attended a CES, and did very well. In your case, I would have submitted previous MAP-R scores to illustrate that my dc’s illness during the most recent MAP testing had affected their performance.

I’m not saying all this to make you feel like you feel any regret; I’m sharing it because appeals used to work a fair amount of the time. If they still work in some cases now, parents should avail themselves of every possible recourse. You’ve got nothing to lose by trying.

True, but the fact that MCPS doesn’t communicate about an appeals process just highlights the inequities involved in magnet selection. Being allowed to submit a high quality writing sample produced to get around a subpar COGAT testing result isn’t something most parents would know to do.

And now there aren’t even multiple tests used for selection (it’s just MAP now).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In addition, from the first quarter/marking period, your DC must have an A in Math, an A in Science and an at or above on-grade reading level.

.



Thanks a lot. I was confused about the above. Are you talking about As in those subject for the first quarter/marking period of grade 5 or the kid’s whole elementary school career?

First marking period of grade 5 only. It’s pretty stupid if you ask me. We had an ELA teacher who openly admitted to subjective grading and giving B’s to “motivate” students.

All this magnet selection stuff is done very narrowly and is pretty stupid in my opinion. I sent my 99 pct COGAT third grade kid to school when she wasn’t 100 pct feeling well one day and it turned out to be MAP-R testing day (unannounced) and her score was well below her normal 95 pct plus level. But since they don’t look at COGAT to choose for CES and only look at one MAP data point, guess whose kid wasn’t deemed eligible for CES lottery?

I hope you appealed.

Nope. I didn't know "appeals" existed for CES. I'm not sure on what grounds I would be able to appeal on anyway. MCPS doesn't look at COGAT for selection to CES, and their narrow criteria for the MAP tests is stupid but it's clearly defined.

I hope they still allow appeals. Back when my now senior was in third grade, dc had the highest MAP-R score in their class (the teacher told us), but not the requisite CogAt score. (Kid has disability related to math, but math isn’t part of CES.) This was pre Covid, before CES admissions was lottery based. My kid wasn’t even considered for the first round of admissions or in the waitpool. I appealed by describing my child’s abilities and submitting a high quality writing sample my child had written outside of school. The decision on my dc’s eligibility was reversed on appeal and my dc was placed in the waitpool before the second round of admissions. DC ended up being randomly selected from the waitpool of qualified applicants, attended a CES, and did very well. In your case, I would have submitted previous MAP-R scores to illustrate that my dc’s illness during the most recent MAP testing had affected their performance.

I’m not saying all this to make you feel like you feel any regret; I’m sharing it because appeals used to work a fair amount of the time. If they still work in some cases now, parents should avail themselves of every possible recourse. You’ve got nothing to lose by trying.

True, but the fact that MCPS doesn’t communicate about an appeals process just highlights the inequities involved in magnet selection. Being allowed to submit a high quality writing sample produced to get around a subpar COGAT testing result isn’t something most parents would know to do.

And now there aren’t even multiple tests used for selection (it’s just MAP now).

They do note the appeals process. In the notification letter (and the FAQ, I think). Just sayin'.