DS can’t handle group learning settings (MCPS)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are no placements unfortunately. Go on Facebook join the DMV PDA group.

Pp here. Sorry to be abrupt just know you aren’t alone. You are describing a PDA response on the verge of autistic burnout.

Clinical research is just starting but there is some connection to the onset of adrenarche and this change in behavior for this profile. Girls 6-8, boys 7-9. It’s like pouring gasoline (cortisol) on a fire (nervous system).

This is not MCPS first rodeo. There are quite a few students in what we call “placement purgatory.” Years of cuts in AND out of district plus higher demand for SN services has overwhelmed the process. To be honest, There are LITERALLY no programs left that meet these needs. Even Ivymount…which is likely the best option.

For MCPS you have a few paths - none are what you are going to want to hear. Option 1: ask to enroll in the Blended Learning Program. This covers you legally and academically. Option 2: keep on trying to find a placement. Some families are on year 2 of waiting…Just know the options presented start to feel more like prison than therapeutic setting. BTDT and it led to PTSD and even more anxiety. Option 3: you can get litigious and try to get money out of mcps for expenses and or alternative setting. We did this and highly DO NOT Recommend. It costs more in legal fees and stress than any amount of money you will win. We won and are still net negative and with no placement. Option 4: withdraw and homeschool. Choose an umbrella that is rather easy on portfolio review. Switch your mindset from “school” to “medical recovery.” If anyone asks then your kid has a medical issue and you are taking the time to heal. You hire tutors, babysitters, and do online programs to supplement and then go back into public, non-public, or private when your kid is ready.

None of this is good news if you work. You may need to take FMLA. I ended up having to quit my job for a year. It is awful in every way. But your kid genuinely needs rest.


You will have a lot of backlash from the schools, these boards etc. — unfortunately there are no answers that check all the boxes. You need to reframe internal expectations for a while but know that it WILL get better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should get an FBA in the public school prior to moving on so you understand the behavior and what you’re working towards. This does not need to be a forever problem, I’ve worked through it with many children. Usually through a combination of school supports or homeschooling or partial schooling plus many opportunities for growth in group settings that are most laidback than public school. This includes things like play dates, co ops, social skills groups, camps, etc Even a change in teacher/school/classroom can sometimes change it, just depends what you’re working with. You need to find a professional outside the school system that can evaluate in the school and home and be willing to work in any setting with the goal of mainstreaming (if that’s what you want). You need someone with experience to do this, it’s not an I just graduated type job, so really vet that person well.

The idea that a child with significant behavioral needs would get approved by MCPS for a non-public placement like Ivymount or Lourie if the school team had not already done an FBA, at the absolute bare minimum first step, is absurd. We can infer that this has been tried. It would never have even made it to CIEP without that, and probably multiple FBA/BIP attempts. CIEP will take any excuse to kick a file back to the school and a missing FBA would have been the most obvious excuse ever. The fact that OP's son was approved for a non-public placement guarantees that all this stuff was tried, probably past the point of failure. The flippant suggestion that OP should have just tried changing teachers, when her son was referred to Ivymount and Lourie, is borderline insulting to all the efforts I'm sure OP (and the school) has made. Come on. Do you know how this placement process works??

I never make assumptions, and even if it had been completed OP would still benefit from establishing the next placement and having another FBA completed by an outside provider. There’s no such thing as too little data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should get an FBA in the public school prior to moving on so you understand the behavior and what you’re working towards. This does not need to be a forever problem, I’ve worked through it with many children. Usually through a combination of school supports or homeschooling or partial schooling plus many opportunities for growth in group settings that are most laidback than public school. This includes things like play dates, co ops, social skills groups, camps, etc Even a change in teacher/school/classroom can sometimes change it, just depends what you’re working with. You need to find a professional outside the school system that can evaluate in the school and home and be willing to work in any setting with the goal of mainstreaming (if that’s what you want). You need someone with experience to do this, it’s not an I just graduated type job, so really vet that person well.

The idea that a child with significant behavioral needs would get approved by MCPS for a non-public placement like Ivymount or Lourie if the school team had not already done an FBA, at the absolute bare minimum first step, is absurd. We can infer that this has been tried. It would never have even made it to CIEP without that, and probably multiple FBA/BIP attempts. CIEP will take any excuse to kick a file back to the school and a missing FBA would have been the most obvious excuse ever. The fact that OP's son was approved for a non-public placement guarantees that all this stuff was tried, probably past the point of failure. The flippant suggestion that OP should have just tried changing teachers, when her son was referred to Ivymount and Lourie, is borderline insulting to all the efforts I'm sure OP (and the school) has made. Come on. Do you know how this placement process works??

I never make assumptions, and even if it had been completed OP would still benefit from establishing the next placement and having another FBA completed by an outside provider. There’s no such thing as too little data.

* too much data

[Anonymous]

There may be online options. I haven't kept up with MVA, but if that is still gone, maybe CIEP would consider funding a virtual school. You'd need to stay at home with him, though.

Have you looked into partial hospitalization programs?

Other schools to consider (unless already rejected) may be Shepard Pratt, Foundation, Children's guild, KKI). I'd recommend Ivymoutn and Lourie over these, but worth looking into.

[Anonymous]

Fusion academy is a private program with 1:1 instruction. It's not special ed though, so MCPS won't pay and they aren't equipped to handle significant disabilities. If your child does ok 1:1, this could be an option if you can afford it.

[Anonymous]

How long ago were you rejected from home and hospital? It might be worth revisiting now that your child has been rejected from CIEP's placements. Perhaps they would consider it now.

To answer your question - I do not think there are special ed programs that provide instruction without any other students there (other than home/hospital).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fusion academy is a private program with 1:1 instruction. It's not special ed though, so MCPS won't pay and they aren't equipped to handle significant disabilities. If your child does ok 1:1, this could be an option if you can afford it.

It doesn't start until 6th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also (same poster as above), you say he was rejected from the placements most appropriate for his needs. Were there other referrals where he was accepted?

OP here. He was only referred to the two schools because none of us felt any other school would be appropriate. “He’s a complex case.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is he on medication for anxiety or anything else? I ask, because your son sounds very similarly profiled to mine. Medication was a necessity for him to attend school and participate in a classroom, starting as early as K. Even so, public school did not work out. He attended the [formerly called] MAP program at Ivymount, where he flourished. At the time, it was the only non-program program where he applied, and shadowed, that appeared to be the right fit. Good luck. It is a tough tough time.

OP here: we had bad side effects when we tried anti anxiety meds before but perhaps it’s time to try again. Otherwise we stopped the ADHD meds when he stopped going to school. Ivymount was very kind to us and suggested that we could reconsider when DS is ready for group settings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should get an FBA in the public school prior to moving on so you understand the behavior and what you’re working towards. This does not need to be a forever problem, I’ve worked through it with many children. Usually through a combination of school supports or homeschooling or partial schooling plus many opportunities for growth in group settings that are most laidback than public school. This includes things like play dates, co ops, social skills groups, camps, etc Even a change in teacher/school/classroom can sometimes change it, just depends what you’re working with. You need to find a professional outside the school system that can evaluate in the school and home and be willing to work in any setting with the goal of mainstreaming (if that’s what you want). You need someone with experience to do this, it’s not an I just graduated type job, so really vet that person well.

OP here: I appreciate your ideas and have thought of many myself over the past year. Initially we thought of requesting a teacher swap but did not feel like any of the options would be much of a better fit. They did an FBA and a BIP and all the things. But in the process DS became more burnt out and the school staff I think struggled to meet him where he was (because, PDA).

[Anonymous]

Similar to an earlier PP, my child made drastic improvement in the 1 year of COVID and being at home. He went from not being accepted at Rica and other schools due to his extreme behaviors to being fully mainstreamed on a 504. Interestingly, his psychiatrist said it happened to several of his patients. It was about the only group who benefited from the closures.

I highly recommend you give him a year of homeschool. I know too well how hard this is financially, but for many of these kids who are close to full burnout, they truly need the change of scenery. Teach him what he’s interested in learning and focus on his mental health. You can finish the school part of the day in just a couple of hours and then the rest of the day can focus on preferred activities. Try to find the happiness again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is LCS Lourie? If yes, what exactly did they say as the reason for rejection? I'd suggest asking Ivymount and Lourie for recommendations for other schools that may be a better fit. I'm surprised to hear that either school would reject a student for being "too dysregulated."

OP here: yes, Lourie. DS couldn’t handle the tour much less entering a classroom for the shadow visit. He immediately tries to flee. Staff blocks him. He switches to fight. They respond and he feels traumatized. They say no thanks. I think no one has the time to sit with him for as long as it takes to build the connection before trying to nudge him to take a step when he’s ready.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are no placements unfortunately. Go on Facebook join the DMV PDA group.

OP here. Thank you, actually. For some reason it never occurred to me to check to see if such a group existed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are no placements unfortunately. Go on Facebook join the DMV PDA group.

Pp here. Sorry to be abrupt just know you aren’t alone. You are describing a PDA response on the verge of autistic burnout.

Clinical research is just starting but there is some connection to the onset of adrenarche and this change in behavior for this profile. Girls 6-8, boys 7-9. It’s like pouring gasoline (cortisol) on a fire (nervous system).

This is not MCPS first rodeo. There are quite a few students in what we call “placement purgatory.” Years of cuts in AND out of district plus higher demand for SN services has overwhelmed the process. To be honest, There are LITERALLY no programs left that meet these needs. Even Ivymount…which is likely the best option.

For MCPS you have a few paths - none are what you are going to want to hear. Option 1: ask to enroll in the Blended Learning Program. This covers you legally and academically. Option 2: keep on trying to find a placement. Some families are on year 2 of waiting…Just know the options presented start to feel more like prison than therapeutic setting. BTDT and it led to PTSD and even more anxiety. Option 3: you can get litigious and try to get money out of mcps for expenses and or alternative setting. We did this and highly DO NOT Recommend. It costs more in legal fees and stress than any amount of money you will win. We won and are still net negative and with no placement. Option 4: withdraw and homeschool. Choose an umbrella that is rather easy on portfolio review. Switch your mindset from “school” to “medical recovery.” If anyone asks then your kid has a medical issue and you are taking the time to heal. You hire tutors, babysitters, and do online programs to supplement and then go back into public, non-public, or private when your kid is ready.

None of this is good news if you work. You may need to take FMLA. I ended up having to quit my job for a year. It is awful in every way. But your kid genuinely needs rest.


You will have a lot of backlash from the schools, these boards etc. — unfortunately there are no answers that check all the boxes. You need to reframe internal expectations for a while but know that it WILL get better.

OP here. This all resonates. You are correct that it isn’t what I was hoping to hear but it is what I figured it was going to boil down to.

I need to do a deep dive on homeschooling options to see what would best fit DS and would be the most practical for us to implement. It’s such new territory for us. It seems like the best of the bad options if I want to support my kid.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There may be online options. I haven't kept up with MVA, but if that is still gone, maybe CIEP would consider funding a virtual school. You'd need to stay at home with him, though.

Have you looked into partial hospitalization programs?

Other schools to consider (unless already rejected) may be Shepard Pratt, Foundation, Children's guild, KKI). I'd recommend Ivymoutn and Lourie over these, but worth looking into.

OP: We visited SP and felt like DS would not feel like he belonged among the other students. Whether or not he should be more open is kind of beside the point because if he’s not willing to go it’s not going to be a practical solution. We did not do outreach to the other schools and at this point we do not plan to. I think we need a radical alternative until such time we can reconsider LCS or Ivymount. I’m interested to see if CIEP has an online options (I don’t think so) or if they would consider it given the circumstances.

I am both remote and part time and would love to find an option that allows me to keep working.