Tests are back, where’s the data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since these institutions have rushed back to test required and asserted that low sat scores are to blame for lower student quality, where’s the data? Furthermore, where are their peers who are still test optionals getting their students? Since changing back, all I’ve seen are news articles complaining about the low student quality and that the kids can’t even read these days!

Because those news articles are complaining about low student quality in colleges that remain test optional. Columbia in particular.

The test required colleges now do not complain low student quality anymore. Show me any article that complains low student quality in test required colleges since that reinstated test requirement? None. There is none!

Huh? The crimson mentions habitually about the lower student quality. Did we all just forget the article on them needing REMEDIAL coursework.

Harvard's remedial math class began at a time when they reinstated test requirement only several months ago. The remedial math class is a remedy for the students from test optional era.

They created a course for students who will be pass intro math courses? That makes absolutely no sense.

They were fed up with years of lower student quality from the test optional era. So they decided to have a remedial math class. Obviously the decision was not made overnight at the last moment, it was decided at least a few month ago. Simultaneously, they also decided to reinstate test. You see both occurring at the same time. The two decisions may be made independently, for example, one by math department another by admission office. Both happened thanks to test optional students. Why don't we wait for four years to purge out the present test optional students, and see what happens? Be patient.

I want to point out that Harvard had remedial math a decade ago and it has nothing to do with test optional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Data lags by at least two years usually. Most of these schools only just switched back for this cycle and the freshman class hasn’t even arrived on campus yet. Give it a minute, maybe.

MIT switched back in 2022. Still no data.

Why do you think MIT has an obligation to show you their data?

[Anonymous]

Too soon to expect relevant data.

Besides, we have yet to sort out the overall impact on the Class of 2028 anyway. Hardest hit by the pandemic (when the crucial period of transition from middle school to high school was ripped away from them, leaving them to figure out how to be a HS student, study effectively and advocate for themselves, and manage the social pressures of high school on their own), this cohort has also come of age during the worst period of grade inflation in U.S. history and the rise of rampant cheating both during the pandemic and since with AI tools proliferating in the absence of guardrails.

It will take some time …

[Anonymous]

Wait...so all the allegedly brilliant elitists who swore up and down that standardized testing was racist and that going test optional was the humane thing to do are now backtracking???? All those academics were wrong - again??? Closing schools during the pandemic was also disastrous for many kids???? I just don't know what to say - my entire worldview has been turned upside down! lol

[Anonymous]

colleges have enough of their own data on test optional and success in classes ... stem vs liberal arts/humanities. the colleges that reverted back to test required are ones that didn't see a good outcome from test optional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:colleges have enough of their own data on test optional and success in classes ... stem vs liberal arts/humanities. the colleges that reverted back to test required are ones that didn't see a good outcome from test optional.

And ones that didn’t are the ones wedded to equity above merit regardless of outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since these institutions have rushed back to test required and asserted that low sat scores are to blame for lower student quality, where’s the data? Furthermore, where are their peers who are still test optionals getting their students? Since changing back, all I’ve seen are news articles complaining about the low student quality and that the kids can’t even read these days!

Because those news articles are complaining about low student quality in colleges that remain test optional. Columbia in particular.

The test required colleges now do not complain low student quality anymore. Show me any article that complains low student quality in test required colleges since that reinstated test requirement? None. There is none!

Huh? The crimson mentions habitually about the lower student quality. Did we all just forget the article on them needing REMEDIAL coursework.

Harvard's remedial math class began at a time when they reinstated test requirement only several months ago. The remedial math class is a remedy for the students from test optional era.

They created a course for students who will be pass intro math courses? That makes absolutely no sense.

They were fed up with years of lower student quality from the test optional era. So they decided to have a remedial math class. Obviously the decision was not made overnight at the last moment, it was decided at least a few month ago. Simultaneously, they also decided to reinstate test. You see both occurring at the same time. The two decisions may be made independently, for example, one by math department another by admission office. Both happened thanks to test optional students. Why don't we wait for four years to purge out the present test optional students, and see what happens? Be patient.

I want to point out that Harvard had remedial math a decade ago and it has nothing to do with test optional.

The previous class wasn’t remedial at this level. The present class is remedial for the test optional generation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Too soon to expect relevant data.

Besides, we have yet to sort out the overall impact on the Class of 2028 anyway. Hardest hit by the pandemic (when the crucial period of transition from middle school to high school was ripped away from them, leaving them to figure out how to be a HS student, study effectively and advocate for themselves, and manage the social pressures of high school on their own), this cohort has also come of age during the worst period of grade inflation in U.S. history and the rise of rampant cheating both during the pandemic and since with AI tools proliferating in the absence of guardrails.

It will take some time …

Not really sure any one grade was worse off than another from covid school closuress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Data lags by at least two years usually. Most of these schools only just switched back for this cycle and the freshman class hasn’t even arrived on campus yet. Give it a minute, maybe.

MIT switched back in 2022. Still no data.

MIT was only test optional for one year. They looked at years of historical data to determine whether SATs made a difference and determined they did. Maybe research before posting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:colleges have enough of their own data on test optional and success in classes ... stem vs liberal arts/humanities. the colleges that reverted back to test required are ones that didn't see a good outcome from test optional.

And ones that didn’t are the ones wedded to equity above merit regardless of outcomes.

Most colleges aren’t MIT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Data lags by at least two years usually. Most of these schools only just switched back for this cycle and the freshman class hasn’t even arrived on campus yet. Give it a minute, maybe.

MIT switched back in 2022. Still no data.

MIT was only test optional for one year. They looked at years of historical data to determine whether SATs made a difference and determined they did. Maybe research before posting.

And their report back showing proof is nowhere to be found.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since these institutions have rushed back to test required and asserted that low sat scores are to blame for lower student quality, where’s the data? Furthermore, where are their peers who are still test optionals getting their students? Since changing back, all I’ve seen are news articles complaining about the low student quality and that the kids can’t even read these days!

Because those news articles are complaining about low student quality in colleges that remain test optional. Columbia in particular.

The test required colleges now do not complain low student quality anymore. Show me any article that complains low student quality in test required colleges since that reinstated test requirement? None. There is none!

Huh? The crimson mentions habitually about the lower student quality. Did we all just forget the article on them needing REMEDIAL coursework.

Harvard's remedial math class began at a time when they reinstated test requirement only several months ago. The remedial math class is a remedy for the students from test optional era.

They created a course for students who will be pass intro math courses? That makes absolutely no sense.

They were fed up with years of lower student quality from the test optional era. So they decided to have a remedial math class. Obviously the decision was not made overnight at the last moment, it was decided at least a few month ago. Simultaneously, they also decided to reinstate test. You see both occurring at the same time. The two decisions may be made independently, for example, one by math department another by admission office. Both happened thanks to test optional students. Why don't we wait for four years to purge out the present test optional students, and see what happens? Be patient.

I want to point out that Harvard had remedial math a decade ago and it has nothing to do with test optional.

The previous class wasn’t remedial at this level. The present class is remedial for the test optional generation.

It IS remedial. The change was the frequency of the course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s been a pretty short time, but I would be interested in caltech’s data. They claimed that students were doing drastically poorer in intro course work, so it’d be nice to at least see a significant regression if that is true.

Is anyone surprised? Public school education = teaching to the test. And going to school to socialize physically in person. Students are not receiving basic, foundational skills, practice and repetition to move onto higher concepts. DIY. "Teach" yourself. If you can't, get a tutor. Or AI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since these institutions have rushed back to test required and asserted that low sat scores are to blame for lower student quality, where’s the data? Furthermore, where are their peers who are still test optionals getting their students? Since changing back, all I’ve seen are news articles complaining about the low student quality and that the kids can’t even read these days!

Because those news articles are complaining about low student quality in colleges that remain test optional. Columbia in particular.

The test required colleges now do not complain low student quality anymore. Show me any article that complains low student quality in test required colleges since that reinstated test requirement? None. There is none!

Huh? The crimson mentions habitually about the lower student quality. Did we all just forget the article on them needing REMEDIAL coursework.

Harvard's remedial math class began at a time when they reinstated test requirement only several months ago. The remedial math class is a remedy for the students from test optional era.

They created a course for students who will be pass intro math courses? That makes absolutely no sense.

They were fed up with years of lower student quality from the test optional era. So they decided to have a remedial math class. Obviously the decision was not made overnight at the last moment, it was decided at least a few month ago. Simultaneously, they also decided to reinstate test. You see both occurring at the same time. The two decisions may be made independently, for example, one by math department another by admission office. Both happened thanks to test optional students. Why don't we wait for four years to purge out the present test optional students, and see what happens? Be patient.

I want to point out that Harvard had remedial math a decade ago and it has nothing to do with test optional.

+1. Complaints about the decline in student quality also preceded test optional. It’s not about the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since these institutions have rushed back to test required and asserted that low sat scores are to blame for lower student quality, where’s the data? Furthermore, where are their peers who are still test optionals getting their students? Since changing back, all I’ve seen are news articles complaining about the low student quality and that the kids can’t even read these days!

Because those news articles are complaining about low student quality in colleges that remain test optional. Columbia in particular.

The test required colleges now do not complain low student quality anymore. Show me any article that complains low student quality in test required colleges since that reinstated test requirement? None. There is none!

Huh? The crimson mentions habitually about the lower student quality. Did we all just forget the article on them needing REMEDIAL coursework.

Harvard's remedial math class began at a time when they reinstated test requirement only several months ago. The remedial math class is a remedy for the students from test optional era.

They created a course for students who will be pass intro math courses? That makes absolutely no sense.

They were fed up with years of lower student quality from the test optional era. So they decided to have a remedial math class. Obviously the decision was not made overnight at the last moment, it was decided at least a few month ago. Simultaneously, they also decided to reinstate test. You see both occurring at the same time. The two decisions may be made independently, for example, one by math department another by admission office. Both happened thanks to test optional students. Why don't we wait for four years to purge out the present test optional students, and see what happens? Be patient.

I want to point out that Harvard had remedial math a decade ago and it has nothing to do with test optional.

The previous class wasn’t remedial at this level. The present class is remedial for the test optional generation.

It IS remedial. The change was the frequency of the course.

The current one changed to a lower level.