Overcoming truly awful HOPE

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I requested and received my child's HOPE scores and they're terrible, which feels completely misaligned with her academics. Any advice on how to overcome this during the appeal process? I know HOPE weighs heavily into the committee decision making, so it's clear now why my kid didn't get in during initial review despite what seemed like decently high (though not off the charts) test performance.

Pyramid: Marshall
In/out of pool: In pool

Tests submitted by school in original packet
CogAt: 140 (138 Q, 139 NonV, 125 V)
NNAT: 129
Fall 2024 iReady math: 99th %ile (454, looks like just %ile submitted)
Fall 2023 iReady reading: 99th %ile (I don't see the raw score submitted/can't find the old paperwork; fall 2024 VALLS similarly high but not submitted by school/not really supposed to be used for this type of determination anyway)

WISC (not in original packet, done over spring break): 134

HOPE: 2 often, 5 sometimes, 4 rarely (!!!), no subjects checked/no comments.

I'm floored at the HOPE. It doesn't sound like my kid at all. The work samples weren't great (mostly because of terrible handwriting) but I had felt confident we could overcome those until I saw the HOPE. Now I'm also concerned about what's going on in that classroom, because I see my child exhibiting significantly above-grade-level talent in math and reading as part of our daily life, and if the teacher isn't seeing any of that, it feels like a huge problem (maybe my kid is totally checked out, maybe there's a behavior issue no one has mentioned, maybe a weird peer dynamic, could be any number of things that mean a completely different kid at home than at school, I suppose).

Any advice from people who have addressed a really bad HOPE during appeal through samples or the cover letter (or, if you were denied 2nd grade appeal, how to set up a conversation with 3rd grade teacher to make sure there isn't so much of a gulf between the at home and school experiences?).

From your description, it is likely your child IS the disruptive one in class.

Have you had them tested for ADD / ADHD ?

I think you should be looking at special services for them, which would be a better fit, and not AAP.

You're jumping to special services and ADHD, based on OP's description? That's quite the reach. OP has indicated she has gotten no feedback about behavior problems.

ok.

What do you think the likely explanation could be for her child’s:

- high test scores + really low HOPE rating?

Teacher perception? My child didn't get in with similar scores (still waiting to receive her HOPE). Her teacher is new to the school and frequently tells the students that she is overwhelmed and "stressed out." Not sure she'd be the best judge of my child's aptitude.

Yes, the overwhelmed teacher who doesn't notice anything is a problem for getting into AAP. At schools with a good AART there's the hedge of the AART pulling out level II kids from every class to know them and get good samples so the 2nd grade teacher an be bad and the kid can still get a fair packet. But not every AART is helpful like that and some 2nd grade teachers are terrible. When your school has a good one for a different class than your kid is compared against kids from that good teacher's class and disadvantaged.

The best you can do is amazing examples in your parent questionnaire (did you do one already?) and appeal cover. Make sure they show specific times your kid has demonstrated these exceptional traits. Paint a picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Might be too late for this but my kid has terrible handwriting and I submitted an occupational therapist evaluation where I highlighted relevant sections (note they are reading the application very quickly, which is why I did this) and in the notes section at the bottom of the parent survey said something like "See attached highlighted sections. Handwriting reflects XYZ issues and not motivation." Got in on the regular application with lower scores (don't know HOPE but expect it was good). I don't think explicitly addressing the handwriting could hurt.

You might be able to get Fairfax Pediatric Therapy to turn a report around quickly. I don't know for sure but we got an initial appointment pretty quickly and the report within 2 weeks without asking for it to be expedited. Therapy itself took more of a waiting period to have an opening.

I noted the handwriting issue too. My parents literally got pulled into a parent-teacher conference for my sibling at TJ. Teacher accused sibling of doing all homework on the bus in the mornings. Nope - sibling had terrible handwriting and so it just looked like sibling was writing on a bouncing, moving bus. Teacher spent the entire year convinced sibling was an unmotivated slacker anyway, and treated sibling accordingly. It was pretty appalling.

Handwriting matters to some people for this stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I requested and received my child's HOPE scores and they're terrible, which feels completely misaligned with her academics. Any advice on how to overcome this during the appeal process? I know HOPE weighs heavily into the committee decision making, so it's clear now why my kid didn't get in during initial review despite what seemed like decently high (though not off the charts) test performance.

Pyramid: Marshall
In/out of pool: In pool

Tests submitted by school in original packet
CogAt: 140 (138 Q, 139 NonV, 125 V)
NNAT: 129
Fall 2024 iReady math: 99th %ile (454, looks like just %ile submitted)
Fall 2023 iReady reading: 99th %ile (I don't see the raw score submitted/can't find the old paperwork; fall 2024 VALLS similarly high but not submitted by school/not really supposed to be used for this type of determination anyway)

WISC (not in original packet, done over spring break): 134

HOPE: 2 often, 5 sometimes, 4 rarely (!!!), no subjects checked/no comments.

I'm floored at the HOPE. It doesn't sound like my kid at all. The work samples weren't great (mostly because of terrible handwriting) but I had felt confident we could overcome those until I saw the HOPE. Now I'm also concerned about what's going on in that classroom, because I see my child exhibiting significantly above-grade-level talent in math and reading as part of our daily life, and if the teacher isn't seeing any of that, it feels like a huge problem (maybe my kid is totally checked out, maybe there's a behavior issue no one has mentioned, maybe a weird peer dynamic, could be any number of things that mean a completely different kid at home than at school, I suppose).

Any advice from people who have addressed a really bad HOPE during appeal through samples or the cover letter (or, if you were denied 2nd grade appeal, how to set up a conversation with 3rd grade teacher to make sure there isn't so much of a gulf between the at home and school experiences?).

From your description, it is likely your child IS the disruptive one in class.

Have you had them tested for ADD / ADHD ?

I think you should be looking at special services for them, which would be a better fit, and not AAP.

That child should be in AAP (ADHD or not!) And to be honest, some teachers are not that nice. Appeal. AAP is not that difficult.

The full time AAP presentation every year makes sure to highlight that AAP is for 2E kids as well as simply advanced kids who don't have any learning differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is the HOPE report inconsistent with the report card? If the first time you are hearing about some of these issues is on the HOPE report, that is a problem that I would address with the teacher.

The HOPE scale has a section of check-boxes, which go beyond grades and includes: exceptional talent in the “Performing Arts.”

Performing Arts talent (dance, piano lessons, basketball, karate, etc.) might not be reflected on the report card.

But it can be good to get into the Advanced Academic Program, especially if tests scores and grades are low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the HOPE report inconsistent with the report card? If the first time you are hearing about some of these issues is on the HOPE report, that is a problem that I would address with the teacher.

The HOPE scale has a section of check-boxes, which go beyond grades and includes: exceptional talent in the “Performing Arts.”

Performing Arts talent (dance, piano lessons, basketball, karate, etc.) might not be reflected on the report card.

But it can be good to get into the Advanced Academic Program, especially if tests scores and grades are low.

Given how many times in the full-time AAP presentation (at least as recently as last year) they emphasized that AAP is an academic program and therefore they don't really consider fine arts...I don't think this is accurate at all.

[Anonymous]

This is all so absurd. A kid who is 99th percentile across the board should be a no brainer admit. They're both smarter and more advanced than the majority of kids in the program.

It won't help with the appeal, but I would do a conference with the teacher and perhaps the principal or AART. I'd go in with the premise that your child's ability and achievement levels are apparently not corresponding with what your child is doing in the classroom, and you're concerned that this is a red flag for something else. Then, see what the teacher has to say and go from there.

For the appeal, I'd think about any reason your child might not be displaying advanced behaviors in the classroom, and then use that as justification that your child cannot have their needs met in the regular classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is all so absurd. A kid who is 99th percentile across the board should be a no brainer admit. They're both smarter and more advanced than the majority of kids in the program.

It won't help with the appeal, but I would do a conference with the teacher and perhaps the principal or AART. I'd go in with the premise that your child's ability and achievement levels are apparently not corresponding with what your child is doing in the classroom, and you're concerned that this is a red flag for something else. Then, see what the teacher has to say and go from there.

For the appeal, I'd think about any reason your child might not be displaying advanced behaviors in the classroom, and then use that as justification that your child cannot have their needs met in the regular classroom.

This is good advice OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the HOPE report inconsistent with the report card? If the first time you are hearing about some of these issues is on the HOPE report, that is a problem that I would address with the teacher.

The HOPE scale has a section of check-boxes, which go beyond grades and includes: exceptional talent in the “Performing Arts.”

Performing Arts talent (dance, piano lessons, basketball, karate, etc.) might not be reflected on the report card.

But it can be good to get into the Advanced Academic Program, especially if tests scores and grades are low.

Given how many times in the full-time AAP presentation (at least as recently as last year) they emphasized that AAP is an academic program and therefore they don't really consider fine arts...I don't think this is accurate at all.

But how can that be true? It’s right on the HOPE scale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the HOPE report inconsistent with the report card? If the first time you are hearing about some of these issues is on the HOPE report, that is a problem that I would address with the teacher.

The HOPE scale has a section of check-boxes, which go beyond grades and includes: exceptional talent in the “Performing Arts.”

Performing Arts talent (dance, piano lessons, basketball, karate, etc.) might not be reflected on the report card.

But it can be good to get into the Advanced Academic Program, especially if tests scores and grades are low.

Given how many times in the full-time AAP presentation (at least as recently as last year) they emphasized that AAP is an academic program and therefore they don't really consider fine arts...I don't think this is accurate at all.

But how can that be true? It’s right on the HOPE scale.

Just because it's there doesn't mean the committee has to prioritize that box. HOPE is given every year. It provides a picture of a kid. People forget that. It's not just for full-time AAP.

They explicitly tell you not to include art as a work sample unless your child can show advanced reasoning as a write-up about it. If there's a way that the Performing Art exceptional talent demonstrates creative and critical thinking it might matter. But if it's just being really good at piano technique, it isn't helping your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is all so absurd. A kid who is 99th percentile across the board should be a no brainer admit. They're both smarter and more advanced than the majority of kids in the program.

It won't help with the appeal, but I would do a conference with the teacher and perhaps the principal or AART. I'd go in with the premise that your child's ability and achievement levels are apparently not corresponding with what your child is doing in the classroom, and you're concerned that this is a red flag for something else. Then, see what the teacher has to say and go from there.

For the appeal, I'd think about any reason your child might not be displaying advanced behaviors in the classroom, and then use that as justification that your child cannot have their needs met in the regular classroom.

Totally agree with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is all so absurd. A kid who is 99th percentile across the board should be a no brainer admit. They're both smarter and more advanced than the majority of kids in the program.

It won't help with the appeal, but I would do a conference with the teacher and perhaps the principal or AART. I'd go in with the premise that your child's ability and achievement levels are apparently not corresponding with what your child is doing in the classroom, and you're concerned that this is a red flag for something else. Then, see what the teacher has to say and go from there.

For the appeal, I'd think about any reason your child might not be displaying advanced behaviors in the classroom, and then use that as justification that your child cannot have their needs met in the regular classroom.

It’s not absurd.

FCPS specifically and consciously replaced the old GBRS score with the better HOPE scale.

And the HOPE scale is better because it’s intentionally inclusive of students with performing arts talents, students who show compassion towards others, students who show they are sensitive to larger or deeper issues of human concern, etc.

These evaluation factors were missing on the old GBRS.

[Anonymous]

Kids can have high test scores and not be curious in class. The Teacher might be seeing a child who doesn’t do the extra work or read books above grade level during school. If the child is choosing to do only what is asked in class, then they might not look like a kid who needs something other than the regular class. The question to ask the teacher is what is your child like in class? Do they get up and do the extra work that is offered? Are they reading extra material to learn more about a subject? Are they finding ways to combine subject material in class?

I know that HOPE doesn’t have comments, my son had GBRSs. The comments focused on all the extra things he did and how he brought in information learned at home to school subjects. He had a friend with similar test scores whose parent told me that the GBRSs made it clear that their bright kid, and he is a bright kid, had no interest in doing anything extra in class. He did great in Advanced Math but asked regularly to drop into the regular math class. He wanted to stop LIII pullouts. Not because the class was too hard but because he knew the other group of kids didn’t do as much work. He decided on Math 7H instead of Algebra 1 H in 7th grade because he didn’t want the challenge. The difference wasn’t test scores or grades but curiosity displayed in class. He would have been fine in LIV but he was fine in the regular class.

[Anonymous]

HOPE is not an FCPS instrument— it was developed at Purdue. The instrument presents a profile of student talents in multiple domains. Some of those are non-academic.

Some of them, like an affinity for talking with adults, are considered markers for giftedness.

Performing and visual arts checkboxes are not giving anyone an advantage for AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HOPE is not an FCPS instrument— it was developed at Purdue. The instrument presents a profile of student talents in multiple domains. Some of those are non-academic.

Some of them, like an affinity for talking with adults, are considered markers for giftedness.

Performing and visual arts checkboxes are not giving anyone an advantage for AAP.

The instrument was designed to include kids who otherwise might not be considered for advanced programming. It was not designed to exclude kids who otherwise have the test scores and classroom performance.

[Anonymous]

It’s not an instrument, it’s an assessment. One you can opt out of.