NCAP and Machine pricing?

[Anonymous]

A big difference in price is supply/demand and pool costs.

[Anonymous]

We are at NCAP-Burke, and your child would have the same coaches the other “high achieving” coaches have until Gold I, which is the national team. All of the coaches are equally good and spread throughout the different practice groups. Also, NCAP-Burke is an automatic 1 year contract, which includes 4 days of long course during June-first week in August. Some kids don’t do LC, but the family pays regardless. Finally, our kids get a Burke Racquet and Swim Club membership with our dues. It’s not a super nice gym, but it does the trick for the older kids who want to work out. The 12Us can also go up and reserve a swim lane to practice turns, technique, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only programs I am aware of that NCAP and Machine are 2-3x more expensive than are RMSC and AAC, and that is due to the fact that those clubs are county programs. In MD at least the smaller clubs may be a little cheaper, but definitely not 2-3x cheaper.

Potomac Marlins are less money.

As a Marlins parent that is happy where they are but at a site that practices with Machine, the one thing I have noticed is that they have significantly more coaches on deck during practice than we do so that is likely contributing to whatever the price difference is and you get what you pay for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are at NCAP-Burke, and your child would have the same coaches the other “high achieving” *swimmers have until Gold I, which is the national team. All of the coaches are equally good and spread throughout the different practice groups. Also, NCAP-Burke is an automatic 1 year contract, which includes 4 days of long course during June-first week in August. Some kids don’t do LC, but the family pays regardless. Finally, our kids get a Burke Racquet and Swim Club membership with our dues. It’s not a super nice gym, but it does the trick for the older kids who want to work out. The 12Us can also go up and reserve a swim lane to practice turns, technique, etc.

meant to write “the other high achieving swimmers” have…”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When looking at pricing, Machine and NCAP are in the 5K range and a lot of the other clubs are in the $3500 range for similar practice schedules.

But, for a competitive swimmer Machine and NCAP have less kids in a lane, the coaches pull out swimmers and work one on one, and they attend a lot more meets and travel meets. I don't know of any other clubs in the area that do as many. They do out of area meets that are without qualifying times to give that experience. If you have a swimmer at that level, that is a big deal.

For an average B/BB swimmer you are not going to get your money’s worth out of the most expensive clubs. However, if your kid is a high performer, the extras you get by being at a club like NCAP (cohort of other fast swimmers to train with, the chance to participate in travel meets with other fast swimmers, training trip opportunities, training that is geared toward elite swimmers as you get older, access to their top coaches) make the extra money worthwhile.

I get that, but does NCAP really have 2000 AAAA swimmers?

Nope, but this is the DMV, plenty of parents that want to say their kid swims with NCAP. I don’t understand it either. Unless no other club was as convenient to my house, or only NCAPs practice times worked for our schedules, I wouldn’t put a B/BB swimmers in NCAP.

OP here...

That is kind of my problem, NCAP and Machine are gobbling up all the lanes at all the pools remotely close to me and they are almost the only option at this point. The one other club I was looking into is full because they are at the max capacity per lane allowed by the county.

Thanks for the insight everyone!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are at NCAP-Burke, and your child would have the same coaches the other “high achieving” coaches have until Gold I, which is the national team. All of the coaches are equally good and spread throughout the different practice groups. Also, NCAP-Burke is an automatic 1 year contract, which includes 4 days of long course during June-first week in August. Some kids don’t do LC, but the family pays regardless. Finally, our kids get a Burke Racquet and Swim Club membership with our dues. It’s not a super nice gym, but it does the trick for the older kids who want to work out. The 12Us can also go up and reserve a swim lane to practice turns, technique, etc.

NCAP-Burke may be an outlier because it is the only club that uses BRSC. For our swimmers, we were sold on NCAP-Burke because
— the practice times were at a reasonable time in the evening and not early in the morning unless the family wanted early in the morning (also, kids can combine, eg, one morning and two evenings if needed to do other activities at night),
— the coaches were the same regardless if the child is AAA or BB until Gold I (the practice groups are different depending on the level, but the coaches are spread out),
— they have a full year program with the same coaches in summer,
— they don’t push kids into swimming a lot of hours per week before age 11 (despite what others may think, NCAP-Burke’s high performing 10Us practice only 3 total hours per week, which is less than other clubs nearby, eg, Makos (over an hour per practice) and Machine (over an hour per practice and 4 days per week))
— It is 5 minutes from our house
— my kids can go to the same place at a very similar time
— my kids get to swim with other kids from school/neighborhood/summer league

[Anonymous]

Is Fairland accessible for you, OP? Lots of different clubs there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at NCAP-Burke, and your child would have the same coaches the other “high achieving” coaches have until Gold I, which is the national team. All of the coaches are equally good and spread throughout the different practice groups. Also, NCAP-Burke is an automatic 1 year contract, which includes 4 days of long course during June-first week in August. Some kids don’t do LC, but the family pays regardless. Finally, our kids get a Burke Racquet and Swim Club membership with our dues. It’s not a super nice gym, but it does the trick for the older kids who want to work out. The 12Us can also go up and reserve a swim lane to practice turns, technique, etc.

NCAP-Burke may be an outlier because it is the only club that uses BRSC. For our swimmers, we were sold on NCAP-Burke because
— the practice times were at a reasonable time in the evening and not early in the morning unless the family wanted early in the morning (also, kids can combine, eg, one morning and two evenings if needed to do other activities at night),
— the coaches were the same regardless if the child is AAA or BB until Gold I (the practice groups are different depending on the level, but the coaches are spread out),
— they have a full year program with the same coaches in summer,
— they don’t push kids into swimming a lot of hours per week before age 11 (despite what others may think, NCAP-Burke’s high performing 10Us practice only 3 total hours per week, which is less than other clubs nearby, eg, Makos (over an hour per practice) and Machine (over an hour per practice and 4 days per week))
— It is 5 minutes from our house
— my kids can go to the same place at a very similar time
— my kids get to swim with other kids from school/neighborhood/summer league

I’m guessing OP isn’t near NCAP-Burke or Makos

[Anonymous]

2-3x is a bit of an exaggeration. Nothing outside of county subsidized programs are that much cheaper.

Most people choose their club based on practice schedules and location. If a less expensive one works for you then go for it. I do think you get what you pay for in terms of coaching, practice schedule, club organization, and meets attended.

[Anonymous]

That's hard to believe

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at NCAP-Burke, and your child would have the same coaches the other “high achieving” coaches have until Gold I, which is the national team. All of the coaches are equally good and spread throughout the different practice groups. Also, NCAP-Burke is an automatic 1 year contract, which includes 4 days of long course during June-first week in August. Some kids don’t do LC, but the family pays regardless. Finally, our kids get a Burke Racquet and Swim Club membership with our dues. It’s not a super nice gym, but it does the trick for the older kids who want to work out. The 12Us can also go up and reserve a swim lane to practice turns, technique, etc.

NCAP-Burke may be an outlier because it is the only club that uses BRSC. For our swimmers, we were sold on NCAP-Burke because
— the practice times were at a reasonable time in the evening and not early in the morning unless the family wanted early in the morning (also, kids can combine, eg, one morning and two evenings if needed to do other activities at night),
— the coaches were the same regardless if the child is AAA or BB until Gold I (the practice groups are different depending on the level, but the coaches are spread out),
— they have a full year program with the same coaches in summer,
— they don’t push kids into swimming a lot of hours per week before age 11 (despite what others may think, NCAP-Burke’s high performing 10Us practice only 3 total hours per week, which is less than other clubs nearby, eg, Makos (over an hour per practice) and Machine (over an hour per practice and 4 days per week))
— It is 5 minutes from our house
— my kids can go to the same place at a very similar time
— my kids get to swim with other kids from school/neighborhood/summer league

[Anonymous]

Where are you located, OP? We have found York to be reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at NCAP-Burke, and your child would have the same coaches the other “high achieving” coaches have until Gold I, which is the national team. All of the coaches are equally good and spread throughout the different practice groups. Also, NCAP-Burke is an automatic 1 year contract, which includes 4 days of long course during June-first week in August. Some kids don’t do LC, but the family pays regardless. Finally, our kids get a Burke Racquet and Swim Club membership with our dues. It’s not a super nice gym, but it does the trick for the older kids who want to work out. The 12Us can also go up and reserve a swim lane to practice turns, technique, etc.

NCAP-Burke may be an outlier because it is the only club that uses BRSC. For our swimmers, we were sold on NCAP-Burke because
— the practice times were at a reasonable time in the evening and not early in the morning unless the family wanted early in the morning (also, kids can combine, eg, one morning and two evenings if needed to do other activities at night),
— the coaches were the same regardless if the child is AAA or BB until Gold I (the practice groups are different depending on the level, but the coaches are spread out),
— they have a full year program with the same coaches in summer,
— they don’t push kids into swimming a lot of hours per week before age 11 (despite what others may think, NCAP-Burke’s high performing 10Us practice only 3 total hours per week, which is less than other clubs nearby, eg, Makos (over an hour per practice) and Machine (over an hour per practice and 4 days per week))
— It is 5 minutes from our house
— my kids can go to the same place at a very similar time
— my kids get to swim with other kids from school/neighborhood/summer league

Anonymous wrote:That's hard to believe

It’s true though. At NCAP-Burke, Bronze II (ages 9-12) practice M/W/F 5:30-6:30 pm or M/W/F 6:30-7:30 am. And only a very small handful (like 6-10 kids total) move to Bronze I (4-5 days/week, 1.25 hours each) at 11-12. The rest of the 9-12 year olds stay in M/W/F 3 hours/week until 13. And 8Us (Bronze III) are only allowed to swim T/Th 5:30-6:30 pm. No exceptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at NCAP-Burke, and your child would have the same coaches the other “high achieving” coaches have until Gold I, which is the national team. All of the coaches are equally good and spread throughout the different practice groups. Also, NCAP-Burke is an automatic 1 year contract, which includes 4 days of long course during June-first week in August. Some kids don’t do LC, but the family pays regardless. Finally, our kids get a Burke Racquet and Swim Club membership with our dues. It’s not a super nice gym, but it does the trick for the older kids who want to work out. The 12Us can also go up and reserve a swim lane to practice turns, technique, etc.

NCAP-Burke may be an outlier because it is the only club that uses BRSC. For our swimmers, we were sold on NCAP-Burke because
— the practice times were at a reasonable time in the evening and not early in the morning unless the family wanted early in the morning (also, kids can combine, eg, one morning and two evenings if needed to do other activities at night),
— the coaches were the same regardless if the child is AAA or BB until Gold I (the practice groups are different depending on the level, but the coaches are spread out),
— they have a full year program with the same coaches in summer,
— they don’t push kids into swimming a lot of hours per week before age 11 (despite what others may think, NCAP-Burke’s high performing 10Us practice only 3 total hours per week, which is less than other clubs nearby, eg, Makos (over an hour per practice) and Machine (over an hour per practice and 4 days per week))
— It is 5 minutes from our house
— my kids can go to the same place at a very similar time
— my kids get to swim with other kids from school/neighborhood/summer league

Anonymous wrote:That's hard to believe

It’s true though. At NCAP-Burke, Bronze II (ages 9-12) practice M/W/F 5:30-6:30 pm or M/W/F 6:30-7:30 am. And only a very small handful (like 6-10 kids total) move to Bronze I (4-5 days/week, 1.25 hours each) at 11-12. The rest of the 9-12 year olds stay in M/W/F 3 hours/week until 13. And 8Us (Bronze III) are only allowed to swim T/Th 5:30-6:30 pm. No exceptions.

https://www.gomotionapp.com/team/pvncbf/page/training-groups

[Anonymous]

I can’t speak for Machine but NCAPs price includes short and long course seasons. I know many Clubs charge for short course and then long course is an additional fee. I know NCAP is expensive but to me the coaching my kid gets and the thought that goes into her practice and race schedule makes it well worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at NCAP-Burke, and your child would have the same coaches the other “high achieving” coaches have until Gold I, which is the national team. All of the coaches are equally good and spread throughout the different practice groups. Also, NCAP-Burke is an automatic 1 year contract, which includes 4 days of long course during June-first week in August. Some kids don’t do LC, but the family pays regardless. Finally, our kids get a Burke Racquet and Swim Club membership with our dues. It’s not a super nice gym, but it does the trick for the older kids who want to work out. The 12Us can also go up and reserve a swim lane to practice turns, technique, etc.

NCAP-Burke may be an outlier because it is the only club that uses BRSC. For our swimmers, we were sold on NCAP-Burke because
— the practice times were at a reasonable time in the evening and not early in the morning unless the family wanted early in the morning (also, kids can combine, eg, one morning and two evenings if needed to do other activities at night),
— the coaches were the same regardless if the child is AAA or BB until Gold I (the practice groups are different depending on the level, but the coaches are spread out),
— they have a full year program with the same coaches in summer,
— they don’t push kids into swimming a lot of hours per week before age 11 (despite what others may think, NCAP-Burke’s high performing 10Us practice only 3 total hours per week, which is less than other clubs nearby, eg, Makos (over an hour per practice) and Machine (over an hour per practice and 4 days per week))
— It is 5 minutes from our house
— my kids can go to the same place at a very similar time
— my kids get to swim with other kids from school/neighborhood/summer league

Anonymous wrote:That's hard to believe

It’s true though. At NCAP-Burke, Bronze II (ages 9-12) practice M/W/F 5:30-6:30 pm or M/W/F 6:30-7:30 am. And only a very small handful (like 6-10 kids total) move to Bronze I (4-5 days/week, 1.25 hours each) at 11-12. The rest of the 9-12 year olds stay in M/W/F 3 hours/week until 13. And 8Us (Bronze III) are only allowed to swim T/Th 5:30-6:30 pm. No exceptions.

https://www.gomotionapp.com/team/pvncbf/page/training-groups

This is their 10U high performing group then, 15 h/week offered.

Bronze I:

Highest performing 11-12 + Select 10 year-olds who have competitive experience and are continuing to work on technique but are ready for more advanced competitive training 5 days a week.

Practice times: AM - M-F 5:00 - 6:30 AM PM - 5:00 - 6:30 PM.

Coaches: AM – Kim Spina PM - Jake Anderson