Honestly, how do you manage dual income marriage with kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You hire weekly cleaners, you get before/aftercare for school age kids, you make lists of everything, and I mean everything that needs doing on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, semi annually, and annually. Break it up into as small parts as possible. (Eg, it’s not grocery shopping, it’s meal planning, identifying what you need, grocery shopping, food prep, cooking, and cleaning up, these are all separate things). Then you truly split it up. And you let the other person fail if they don’t do it. If your DH wants a date night, he finds a sitter, hires them, makes dinner reservations, pays the sitter etc.

OP here. You are right, if I write it down everything that we do, he is failing it! He simply expects me to make myself available to have sex, to have date night, to accompany him for a trip, whenever convenient for him. If I just quit managing the household, it will all fall apart. He does not even realize the amount of work and energy required from me to organize kids schedules, hire and coordinate helps, cleaners, contractors, pay bills... He even expects me to do our taxes! I think this is a gender issue.

Give him a list of tasks to do. You act like you are doing it on your own and you're not as you are paying someone to do everything. Be real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You hire weekly cleaners, you get before/aftercare for school age kids, you make lists of everything, and I mean everything that needs doing on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, semi annually, and annually. Break it up into as small parts as possible. (Eg, it’s not grocery shopping, it’s meal planning, identifying what you need, grocery shopping, food prep, cooking, and cleaning up, these are all separate things). Then you truly split it up. And you let the other person fail if they don’t do it. If your DH wants a date night, he finds a sitter, hires them, makes dinner reservations, pays the sitter etc.

OP here. You are right, if I write it down everything that we do, he is failing it! He simply expects me to make myself available to have sex, to have date night, to accompany him for a trip, whenever convenient for him. If I just quit managing the household, it will all fall apart. He does not even realize the amount of work and energy required from me to organize kids schedules, hire and coordinate helps, cleaners, contractors, pay bills... He even expects me to do our taxes! I think this is a gender issue.

Give him a list of tasks to do. You act like you are doing it on your own and you're not as you are paying someone to do everything. Be real.

Good grief. Haven't we established that it's absurd for a responsible adult to need a task list from a spouse? If she is going to be a manager she should get paid extra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP it seems like you want a life that is impossible to have and are super bummed you're not getting it.

You want a fun job that gives you a good lifestyle and is intellectually stimulating, meaningful, and fun. You want to have kids and want to give those kids adequate care. You want a functional household. You want time with your partner and time to decompress after one of you travels. And you want a relatively low-stress existence.

It might just be impossible to have a great job, great marriage, great family life, great mental health, and great home. For the vast majority of the world's population, it is impossible. Sometimes what we need isn't a workaround to get what we want, sometimes we need to accept reality for what it is and find a way to be content with that.

This is OP. You are right. It is greed that we want it all. In a marriage, if I back off, he takes more. Literally. I have already done so much more, to the point that I feel very very unfair. But it will only be worse if we split up. We love each other very much, but this life is not working...

[Anonymous]

If he’s like this, why did you marry him? DTMFA and fix your picker.

[Anonymous]

I WAH in an easy job, while DH has to go to the office. It’s the only way I can manage. I used to SAH and we have lower HHI than OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP it seems like you want a life that is impossible to have and are super bummed you're not getting it.

You want a fun job that gives you a good lifestyle and is intellectually stimulating, meaningful, and fun. You want to have kids and want to give those kids adequate care. You want a functional household. You want time with your partner and time to decompress after one of you travels. And you want a relatively low-stress existence.

It might just be impossible to have a great job, great marriage, great family life, great mental health, and great home. For the vast majority of the world's population, it is impossible. Sometimes what we need isn't a workaround to get what we want, sometimes we need to accept reality for what it is and find a way to be content with that.

Many men have the life that OP wants, and they have it because they have a stay at home wife to manage all the home stuff, while they get to enjoy career + stress-free home life.

[Anonymous]

Our HHI is $300k and has been less in the past. We don't hire much out because we're paying for private school, but otherwise we would. You definitely can afford an au pair, send out your laundry, etc.

But honestly the key is that we both scaled back our jobs to WFH with no travel. We both have jobs that are "less than" - less lucrative, less interesting, less prestigious than we could otherwise have. We did this because we wanted to see each other and our kids. We are involved in our local communities, take turns with dinner and other chores, etc. Its boring and nice.

[Anonymous]

I wish we could travel more together, or get a night away here and there. But date nights are important when we're in a slump. Yesterday we left the kids home and went grocery shopping and to target. We ended up having fun, like when we were first dating and wandering around the world together. We take a drive sometimes at night, playing music and chatting. It's just nice to be alone together. When we don't have even that kind of one in one time I definitely start to feel distant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both DH and I are in highly intellectual jobs that come with a lot of intellectual stimulations, prestige, fun and stress, but don't pay that much. Think of academics, economist at international organizations, etc. We make about 400k in total, evenly distributed. So we are comfortable, but neither of us can afford to quit - we can't afford the same lifestyle with single salary, the sunk cost of PhDs, and all the fun and meaning come with our jobs.

Honestly this is so out of touch. 400k salaries is not low pay. I’m literally rolling my eyes at you. Just hire more help.

Hahaha right? We are similar (academic and cultural heritage) and don't even clear $200k. But as part of that, we aren't willing to work super long hours.

[Anonymous]

Please prioritize spending time together. I am speaking as a divorced dad who devoted more time and effort to his children than his ex wife. It's very very very very important for women to have a spouse that cares and make the effort to find them for them. If you don't you will end up divorce like me. And let me tell you divorce sucks financially.

[Anonymous]

It’s the types of jobs you chose, with travel and expectations etc. it’s not being dual income per se.

If you want two jobs with travel, prestige etc. you need to outsource. At that income you can afford additional help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP it seems like you want a life that is impossible to have and are super bummed you're not getting it.

You want a fun job that gives you a good lifestyle and is intellectually stimulating, meaningful, and fun. You want to have kids and want to give those kids adequate care. You want a functional household. You want time with your partner and time to decompress after one of you travels. And you want a relatively low-stress existence.

It might just be impossible to have a great job, great marriage, great family life, great mental health, and great home. For the vast majority of the world's population, it is impossible. Sometimes what we need isn't a workaround to get what we want, sometimes we need to accept reality for what it is and find a way to be content with that.

This is OP. You are right. It is greed that we want it all. In a marriage, if I back off, he takes more. Literally. I have already done so much more, to the point that I feel very very unfair. But it will only be worse if we split up. We love each other very much, but this life is not working...

I'm not blaming you for wanting what you want. I'm saying that the reality is that something has to give.

I totally agree that what you are going through is unfair. And reading that bit about your husband wanting you to be the chill, sexually available girlfriend he can put on a shelf for when he is ready to enjoy you made me kinda mad (I know I'm putting words into your mouth there, but I've seen it so many times and it irritates me to no end). But it seems like you're looking for a magic spell that will fix everything, and there just isn't one out there. There are hard choices ahead to make. You have to pick the worst of several crappy options and then make peace with it (at some point).

This isn't advice, but I'll tell you what I'd do. I'd give your husband an ultimatum. I'd tell him that your life is unsustainable because he isn't being a responsible adult, and you're not going to take it anymore, and if he doesn't put in effort to make your life easier then you'll divorce. I'd be 100% serious about it and I'd stop talking to him except for what absolutely needs to be said, stop hanging out with him and listening to his day, etc. He'll think you're crazy and overreacting, and he won't take you seriously for a while. He will try to make the argument that many of the things you do are not really necessary so you should be the one who has to do them. Maybe when he realizes you are serious he will change. If not, I'd pull the trigger on divorce.

Now I know a lot of women have gone down this road and regretted it. But many haven't regretted it for a second, and their lives are much better without the extra baggage of a husband who needs to be cared for a like a child *and* a boyfriend. Again, I'm not saying you should do this. But it is what I did when I was in a similar situation and I am so glad I stopped clinging onto the idea of being a good wife and started prioritizing my needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You hire weekly cleaners, you get before/aftercare for school age kids, you make lists of everything, and I mean everything that needs doing on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, semi annually, and annually. Break it up into as small parts as possible. (Eg, it’s not grocery shopping, it’s meal planning, identifying what you need, grocery shopping, food prep, cooking, and cleaning up, these are all separate things). Then you truly split it up. And you let the other person fail if they don’t do it. If your DH wants a date night, he finds a sitter, hires them, makes dinner reservations, pays the sitter etc.

OP here. You are right, if I write it down everything that we do, he is failing it! He simply expects me to make myself available to have sex, to have date night, to accompany him for a trip, whenever convenient for him. If I just quit managing the household, it will all fall apart. He does not even realize the amount of work and energy required from me to organize kids schedules, hire and coordinate helps, cleaners, contractors, pay bills... He even expects me to do our taxes! I think this is a gender issue.

Give him a list of tasks to do. You act like you are doing it on your own and you're not as you are paying someone to do everything. Be real.

Good grief. Haven't we established that it's absurd for a responsible adult to need a task list from a spouse? If she is going to be a manager she should get paid extra.

Paid, it's part of being an adult. She isn't actually doing any of the work. She's coordinating outsourcing. Most bills are auto pay. The accountant does the taxes and the cleaners come as scheduled. Grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You hire weekly cleaners, you get before/aftercare for school age kids, you make lists of everything, and I mean everything that needs doing on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, semi annually, and annually. Break it up into as small parts as possible. (Eg, it’s not grocery shopping, it’s meal planning, identifying what you need, grocery shopping, food prep, cooking, and cleaning up, these are all separate things). Then you truly split it up. And you let the other person fail if they don’t do it. If your DH wants a date night, he finds a sitter, hires them, makes dinner reservations, pays the sitter etc.

OP here. You are right, if I write it down everything that we do, he is failing it! He simply expects me to make myself available to have sex, to have date night, to accompany him for a trip, whenever convenient for him. If I just quit managing the household, it will all fall apart. He does not even realize the amount of work and energy required from me to organize kids schedules, hire and coordinate helps, cleaners, contractors, pay bills... He even expects me to do our taxes! I think this is a gender issue.

Give him a list of tasks to do. You act like you are doing it on your own and you're not as you are paying someone to do everything. Be real.

Why is it her job to make the damn list? He's an adult. You make the lists together and you split it up. She is not the household manager. I'm sure at work he manages his workload just fine. He needs to step up and take on his share of making a household run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You hire weekly cleaners, you get before/aftercare for school age kids, you make lists of everything, and I mean everything that needs doing on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, semi annually, and annually. Break it up into as small parts as possible. (Eg, it’s not grocery shopping, it’s meal planning, identifying what you need, grocery shopping, food prep, cooking, and cleaning up, these are all separate things). Then you truly split it up. And you let the other person fail if they don’t do it. If your DH wants a date night, he finds a sitter, hires them, makes dinner reservations, pays the sitter etc.

OP here. You are right, if I write it down everything that we do, he is failing it! He simply expects me to make myself available to have sex, to have date night, to accompany him for a trip, whenever convenient for him. If I just quit managing the household, it will all fall apart. He does not even realize the amount of work and energy required from me to organize kids schedules, hire and coordinate helps, cleaners, contractors, pay bills... He even expects me to do our taxes! I think this is a gender issue.

Give him a list of tasks to do. You act like you are doing it on your own and you're not as you are paying someone to do everything. Be real.

Good grief. Haven't we established that it's absurd for a responsible adult to need a task list from a spouse? If she is going to be a manager she should get paid extra.

Paid, it's part of being an adult. She isn't actually doing any of the work. She's coordinating outsourcing. Most bills are auto pay. The accountant does the taxes and the cleaners come as scheduled. Grow up.

Sure. But thats if you do nothing extra and just barely live. Kids drs appts need to be scheduled and attended. Breakfast and dinner need to happen with some planning even for takeout and shoppings/cooking/cleaning. Vacations planned. Possibly kids activities or at least aftercare. Any remodel, new furniture, fixing breaking household stuff etc etc