New Hires Today Vs. 25 Years ago?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's more nuanced than simply assuming Gen Z has "figured out they are expendable" and don't want their identity to be their career. I'm Gen X and plenty of us figured that out long ago. We know no one cares about us. We've managed to achieve a decent work life balance and are much less likely to have our identities wrapped up in our careers. We have been the ones in the trenches fighting for decades for changes in the workplace. And most of us couldn't be happier that so much of it is finally coming to fruition.

So as I see it, there is something more happening with Gen Z. The attitude is "if it doesn't directly benefit me, I'm not doing it." It's fine that they have lives outside of the office and that their job is just a means to an end, but there's zero desire to do more than to be a warm body filling a role. I understand that if you are working certain jobs, there's little desire or incentive to go above and beyond, but even young adults with "big" jobs can't seem to be bothered when circumstances require some flexibility (like a call with an overseas client on a different time zone that requires the US team to take the call outside of normal business hours).

And because of this, there is going to be a dearth of leadership in the next 10-20 years. It's going to be problematic, to say the least.

They have boundaries. It’s a good thing. It’s literally what you claim you wanted for all of us. I’m proud of them for refusing to take calls outside their working hours.

There will always be overachievers who want to step in and be leaders. It doesn’t need to be everyone. The corporations are gonna be fine. Don’t side with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see it, I love it, and I adore Gen Z for this reason. I can’t wait til they are in the workforce on a broader scale. They are freaking amazing. I wish I had the courage they have.

Good luck to these kids when they start having kids and responsibilities and need to pay taxes, college, retirement..... I remember being young and idealistic, which led to "bravery", only to get married and need to be a responsible parent/adult. Hopefully these kids won't ruin all of us before then get to that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's more nuanced than simply assuming Gen Z has "figured out they are expendable" and don't want their identity to be their career. I'm Gen X and plenty of us figured that out long ago. We know no one cares about us. We've managed to achieve a decent work life balance and are much less likely to have our identities wrapped up in our careers. We have been the ones in the trenches fighting for decades for changes in the workplace. And most of us couldn't be happier that so much of it is finally coming to fruition.

So as I see it, there is something more happening with Gen Z. The attitude is "if it doesn't directly benefit me, I'm not doing it." It's fine that they have lives outside of the office and that their job is just a means to an end, but there's zero desire to do more than to be a warm body filling a role. I understand that if you are working certain jobs, there's little desire or incentive to go above and beyond, but even young adults with "big" jobs can't seem to be bothered when circumstances require some flexibility (like a call with an overseas client on a different time zone that requires the US team to take the call outside of normal business hours).

And because of this, there is going to be a dearth of leadership in the next 10-20 years. It's going to be problematic, to say the least.

Your gen was never willing to put their money where their mouth was. Gen Z walks the talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see it, I love it, and I adore Gen Z for this reason. I can’t wait til they are in the workforce on a broader scale. They are freaking amazing. I wish I had the courage they have.

Good luck to these kids when they start having kids and responsibilities and need to pay taxes, college, retirement..... I remember being young and idealistic, which led to "bravery", only to get married and need to be a responsible parent/adult. Hopefully these kids won't ruin all of us before then get to that point.

They pay taxes.

Enlighten me, how are “these kids” going to ruin all of us?

[Anonymous]

I think social media is playing into this a lot. Gen Z has barely been in the workforce, so where are they getting all of these ideas about how employers will ruin their mental health and will work them to the bone only to cast them off, and that they need to create boundaries for their employers? Seriously--where is this coming from? I'm not saying there aren't bad employers out there, but employers aren't a monolith. All professions and industries aren't the same. The whole mindset of this generation just seems to be more of what we've already been seeing from them: everyone has a right to speak their truth, I showed up so I'm entitled to some recognition, etc. It's totally fine if you don't want to climb the corporate ladder, but there's no need to treat it as a personal affront if you get asked to do something relating to your job that you don't want to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The younger generation has seen that companies have no loyalty to you, so why should they be loyal to them?

They don't want their identity to be wrapped up in what they do but rather who they are.

This. And good for them for feeling that way. They'd be laid off, RIF'd, etc. in a nanosecond in order to maximize profits. They know it. So they can, and do, what is best for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's more nuanced than simply assuming Gen Z has "figured out they are expendable" and don't want their identity to be their career. I'm Gen X and plenty of us figured that out long ago. We know no one cares about us. We've managed to achieve a decent work life balance and are much less likely to have our identities wrapped up in our careers. We have been the ones in the trenches fighting for decades for changes in the workplace. And most of us couldn't be happier that so much of it is finally coming to fruition.

So as I see it, there is something more happening with Gen Z. The attitude is "if it doesn't directly benefit me, I'm not doing it." It's fine that they have lives outside of the office and that their job is just a means to an end, but there's zero desire to do more than to be a warm body filling a role. I understand that if you are working certain jobs, there's little desire or incentive to go above and beyond, but even young adults with "big" jobs can't seem to be bothered when circumstances require some flexibility (like a call with an overseas client on a different time zone that requires the US team to take the call outside of normal business hours).

And because of this, there is going to be a dearth of leadership in the next 10-20 years. It's going to be problematic, to say the least.

Your gen was never willing to put their money where their mouth was. Gen Z walks the talk.

Meh. I left the corporate abyss for less money but better work/life balance and work protections. So, yeah, some of us did put our money where our mouths are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see it, I love it, and I adore Gen Z for this reason. I can’t wait til they are in the workforce on a broader scale. They are freaking amazing. I wish I had the courage they have.

Good luck to these kids when they start having kids and responsibilities and need to pay taxes, college, retirement..... I remember being young and idealistic, which led to "bravery", only to get married and need to be a responsible parent/adult. Hopefully these kids won't ruin all of us before then get to that point.

They pay taxes.

Enlighten me, how are “these kids” going to ruin all of us?

These kids don't understand anyone else's POV other than their own. They are entitled. They want what they want. We don't live in a society where we want what we want works. We all have to work together. I blame the parents, who didn't want it to be hard for their kids, so they gave them so much vs making them work for it. When you have to work for something it means more.

It's like we need adults in the room to make the hard decisions vs everyone just gets whatever they want, and that leads to chaos and the fall of societies.

Remember Hippies? They became Yuppies when they realized that living in communes and not having to work meant living aimlessly in squalor. They only reason they didn't have more of a reach than they did (they admittedly had some reach in terms of the Vietnam War) was because they had no ability to scare people into doing things that were not helpful by ruining others through cancelling.

My worry is that these younger generations will have caused huge problems before they have a chance to truly understand the world and how it works. I would have more faith in them if they weren't so destructive to anyone who doesn't share their POV.

[Anonymous]

As a millennial I wish I had figured it out as early as gen z. The old people want to take advantage of our tech skills and underpay, I found out quickly these Genx and boomers are way lower skilled then I was and ruled by fear. I started pushing back mid way in my career and should have out the gate to get to my executive position where they are reporting to me and they end up being the ones I have to pip the most. I am in tech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's more nuanced than simply assuming Gen Z has "figured out they are expendable" and don't want their identity to be their career. I'm Gen X and plenty of us figured that out long ago. We know no one cares about us. We've managed to achieve a decent work life balance and are much less likely to have our identities wrapped up in our careers. We have been the ones in the trenches fighting for decades for changes in the workplace. And most of us couldn't be happier that so much of it is finally coming to fruition.

So as I see it, there is something more happening with Gen Z. The attitude is "if it doesn't directly benefit me, I'm not doing it." It's fine that they have lives outside of the office and that their job is just a means to an end, but there's zero desire to do more than to be a warm body filling a role. I understand that if you are working certain jobs, there's little desire or incentive to go above and beyond, but even young adults with "big" jobs can't seem to be bothered when circumstances require some flexibility (like a call with an overseas client on a different time zone that requires the US team to take the call outside of normal business hours).

And because of this, there is going to be a dearth of leadership in the next 10-20 years. It's going to be problematic, to say the least.

They have boundaries. It’s a good thing. It’s literally what you claim you wanted for all of us. I’m proud of them for refusing to take calls outside their working hours.

There will always be overachievers who want to step in and be leaders. It doesn’t need to be everyone. The corporations are gonna be fine. Don’t side with them.

Of course boundaries are a good thing. But if something comes up and requires the team to pivot--say, taking a call at 7pm--why would anyone applaud the person who leaves everyone else hanging? Do you teach your kids that if their game goes into overtime, they just get to leave because it's impeding on their personal time?

It's not just big corporations that are dealing with this either. Smaller employers are really struggling with this, probably more so than large corporations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's more nuanced than simply assuming Gen Z has "figured out they are expendable" and don't want their identity to be their career. I'm Gen X and plenty of us figured that out long ago. We know no one cares about us. We've managed to achieve a decent work life balance and are much less likely to have our identities wrapped up in our careers. We have been the ones in the trenches fighting for decades for changes in the workplace. And most of us couldn't be happier that so much of it is finally coming to fruition.

So as I see it, there is something more happening with Gen Z. The attitude is "if it doesn't directly benefit me, I'm not doing it." It's fine that they have lives outside of the office and that their job is just a means to an end, but there's zero desire to do more than to be a warm body filling a role. I understand that if you are working certain jobs, there's little desire or incentive to go above and beyond, but even young adults with "big" jobs can't seem to be bothered when circumstances require some flexibility (like a call with an overseas client on a different time zone that requires the US team to take the call outside of normal business hours).

And because of this, there is going to be a dearth of leadership in the next 10-20 years. It's going to be problematic, to say the least.

Your gen was never willing to put their money where their mouth was. Gen Z walks the talk.

Meh. I left the corporate abyss for less money but better work/life balance and work protections. So, yeah, some of us did put our money where our mouths are.

You think that, but it’s because you haven’t worked closely with GenZ.

My younger brother is a GenZ. His work doesn’t have his real phone number. They only have access to a Google voice number that he turns off when he’s not working.

Apparently an SVP was in town and wanted to meet with my brother, but bro was on vacation tried to call him and email him but my brother never saw because his Google voice number was turned off and he doesn’t check email on vacation.

My brother found out about this when he got back. And he did not care. Zero anxiety. Zero stress. When he’s off, he’s off.

You can disagree with his course of action, you can claim it won’t lead to his advancement or whatever, but you can’t tell me he doesn’t have brass balls. I have so much respect for him. He truly walks the walk about boundaries with work.

He has a wife, pets, a house, etc. too and makes over $150k so he’s not a loser. He’s like that guy from OfficeSpace. The more he doesn’t care the more they respect him.

[Anonymous]

My career started about 25 years ago and I have never once in my life been "passionate" about an employer. If someone I knew seemed like they were passionate about KPMG I would assume they had gotten hit on the head and taken leave of their sense, what a moronic way you waste your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a millennial I wish I had figured it out as early as gen z. The old people want to take advantage of our tech skills and underpay, I found out quickly these Genx and boomers are way lower skilled then I was and ruled by fear. I started pushing back mid way in my career and should have out the gate to get to my executive position where they are reporting to me and they end up being the ones I have to pip the most. I am in tech.

I have no problem with a younger person who is willing to work hard enough and have enough skill level to get to an executive position. And if older workers can't carry the load or learn the skills, pip all you want.

I have a problem with younger people who simply don't want to do the work, and don't see how not doing the work is a problem.

And I am not OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's more nuanced than simply assuming Gen Z has "figured out they are expendable" and don't want their identity to be their career. I'm Gen X and plenty of us figured that out long ago. We know no one cares about us. We've managed to achieve a decent work life balance and are much less likely to have our identities wrapped up in our careers. We have been the ones in the trenches fighting for decades for changes in the workplace. And most of us couldn't be happier that so much of it is finally coming to fruition.

So as I see it, there is something more happening with Gen Z. The attitude is "if it doesn't directly benefit me, I'm not doing it." It's fine that they have lives outside of the office and that their job is just a means to an end, but there's zero desire to do more than to be a warm body filling a role. I understand that if you are working certain jobs, there's little desire or incentive to go above and beyond, but even young adults with "big" jobs can't seem to be bothered when circumstances require some flexibility (like a call with an overseas client on a different time zone that requires the US team to take the call outside of normal business hours).

And because of this, there is going to be a dearth of leadership in the next 10-20 years. It's going to be problematic, to say the least.

Your gen was never willing to put their money where their mouth was. Gen Z walks the talk.

Meh. I left the corporate abyss for less money but better work/life balance and work protections. So, yeah, some of us did put our money where our mouths are.

You think that, but it’s because you haven’t worked closely with GenZ.

My younger brother is a GenZ. His work doesn’t have his real phone number. They only have access to a Google voice number that he turns off when he’s not working.

Apparently an SVP was in town and wanted to meet with my brother, but bro was on vacation tried to call him and email him but my brother never saw because his Google voice number was turned off and he doesn’t check email on vacation.

My brother found out about this when he got back. And he did not care. Zero anxiety. Zero stress. When he’s off, he’s off.

You can disagree with his course of action, you can claim it won’t lead to his advancement or whatever, but you can’t tell me he doesn’t have brass balls. I have so much respect for him. He truly walks the walk about boundaries with work.

He has a wife, pets, a house, etc. too and makes over $150k so he’s not a loser. He’s like that guy from OfficeSpace. The more he doesn’t care the more they respect him.

This sounds to me that he has a particular skill that people want and he is will to work for less than someone else would be willing to work for for the same skill. If he was someone who had no particular skill a top guy would not be trying to meet with him. Your brother has a skill and isn't interested in playing the game to be promoted for more money. That always puts a person into a position of strength, whatever the age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's more nuanced than simply assuming Gen Z has "figured out they are expendable" and don't want their identity to be their career. I'm Gen X and plenty of us figured that out long ago. We know no one cares about us. We've managed to achieve a decent work life balance and are much less likely to have our identities wrapped up in our careers. We have been the ones in the trenches fighting for decades for changes in the workplace. And most of us couldn't be happier that so much of it is finally coming to fruition.

So as I see it, there is something more happening with Gen Z. The attitude is "if it doesn't directly benefit me, I'm not doing it." It's fine that they have lives outside of the office and that their job is just a means to an end, but there's zero desire to do more than to be a warm body filling a role. I understand that if you are working certain jobs, there's little desire or incentive to go above and beyond, but even young adults with "big" jobs can't seem to be bothered when circumstances require some flexibility (like a call with an overseas client on a different time zone that requires the US team to take the call outside of normal business hours).

And because of this, there is going to be a dearth of leadership in the next 10-20 years. It's going to be problematic, to say the least.

They have boundaries. It’s a good thing. It’s literally what you claim you wanted for all of us. I’m proud of them for refusing to take calls outside their working hours.

There will always be overachievers who want to step in and be leaders. It doesn’t need to be everyone. The corporations are gonna be fine. Don’t side with them.

Of course boundaries are a good thing. But if something comes up and requires the team to pivot--say, taking a call at 7pm--why would anyone applaud the person who leaves everyone else hanging? Do you teach your kids that if their game goes into overtime, they just get to leave because it's impeding on their personal time?

It's not just big corporations that are dealing with this either. Smaller employers are really struggling with this, probably more so than large corporations.

My response is I’m not an ER doc and none of these are emergencies. I’m not that important. Either have the meeting without me or schedule it during working hours. And I’d recommend the team do the same.

Especially for a 7 PM call. That’s ridiculous.