Swimmer change over time: good/great/mediocre

[Anonymous]

What is considered elite at 10? Just curious how you define that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep, agree that height in swimming is way overstated on this board. Most of the elite senior swimmers at our club are average height (some even below) and they are already committed to very highly ranked D1 schools. Maybe if you mean the Olympics, but that’s not what most people are really after.

Height and the idea that if you are a standout at 10 you won’t be good anymore at 16 are the most overstated things on this board. Yes, there are standout 10 year olds that are all around excellent athletes that end up choosing another sport or otherwise leaving swim, but if you look at the elite swimmers almost all of them were also excellent when they were 10. None of the elite swimmers were merely average when they were young and then became elite once they hit HS.

But there's a big window between "average" and "elite." Sure, a kid with lower than B times at 10 will almost certainly not be a D1 swimmer. But a kid with A or AA times at 10 might be depending how they fare in puberty, training, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is considered elite at 10? Just curious how you define that.

To me, I consider the AA/AAA swimmers and above at 10 to be elite. I do think you see some movement at 11-12, like the kids that didn’t start club swim until age 9 or 10 who find their groove by the time they age up and continue that progression through the 11-12 group. We have a couple kids like that in our group, great by the end of 9-10, and really continued their improvement with A/AA 11-12 times as 11 year olds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is considered elite at 10? Just curious how you define that.

I don't think there's any standard definition. I would personally say AAA or higher times in several events.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is considered elite at 10? Just curious how you define that.

To me, I consider the AA/AAA swimmers and above at 10 to be elite. I do think you see some movement at 11-12, like the kids that didn’t start club swim until age 9 or 10 who find their groove by the time they age up and continue that progression through the 11-12 group. We have a couple kids like that in our group, great by the end of 9-10, and really continued their improvement with A/AA 11-12 times as 11 year olds.

I think that is the missing element to the whole "if you aren't swimming at least B level times by 10 you aren't swimming D1". When the kids start cannot be overlooked. I've seen several kids who didn't start until 8-9 and it took a couple of years before they really take off and caught up to everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep, agree that height in swimming is way overstated on this board. Most of the elite senior swimmers at our club are average height (some even below) and they are already committed to very highly ranked D1 schools. Maybe if you mean the Olympics, but that’s not what most people are really after.

Height and the idea that if you are a standout at 10 you won’t be good anymore at 16 are the most overstated things on this board. Yes, there are standout 10 year olds that are all around excellent athletes that end up choosing another sport or otherwise leaving swim, but if you look at the elite swimmers almost all of them were also excellent when they were 10. None of the elite swimmers were merely average when they were young and then became elite once they hit HS.

Saying that a D1 was a standout at 10 is different than saying a standout at 10 will be a D1 swimmer. The first statement is probably true, but many standout 10 year olds don't end up being elite college swimmers.

[Anonymous]

Here’s a question for the seasoned parents: how does a kid who has B times at the bottom of the age group typically progress? Do they make A times by the time they’re at the top? Just curious as I have a 9 year old who just did their first winter meet as a 9-10 and got a couple of B (close to BB) times. Late spring bday, so won’t age up in winter swim until the 2025-26 season. Swimming twice a week right now because of other sports they enjoy more, which I do not see changing anytime soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep, agree that height in swimming is way overstated on this board. Most of the elite senior swimmers at our club are average height (some even below) and they are already committed to very highly ranked D1 schools. Maybe if you mean the Olympics, but that’s not what most people are really after.

Height and the idea that if you are a standout at 10 you won’t be good anymore at 16 are the most overstated things on this board. Yes, there are standout 10 year olds that are all around excellent athletes that end up choosing another sport or otherwise leaving swim, but if you look at the elite swimmers almost all of them were also excellent when they were 10. None of the elite swimmers were merely average when they were young and then became elite once they hit HS.

Saying that a D1 was a standout at 10 is different than saying a standout at 10 will be a D1 swimmer. The first statement is probably true, but many standout 10 year olds don't end up being elite college swimmers.

I think this is true. A lot of the kids that are standouts at 10 are bigger and more athletically gifted than other kids, and that advantage evens out over time. Some of the 10 and under standouts are also standouts because they started at age 7, that advantage also evens out over time. But the 10 and under argument on this board is often twisted into if you are an elite 10 and under you will not be once you hit HS, and will be overtaken by the mediocre swimmer who suddenly blossoms at age 13.

[Anonymous]

Data! https://bmcresnotes.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13104-022-05969-6

Obviously this article doesn't include every individual scenario, but I found it helpful. They also note the importance of keeping kids having fun and not overtraining them at young ages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep, agree that height in swimming is way overstated on this board. Most of the elite senior swimmers at our club are average height (some even below) and they are already committed to very highly ranked D1 schools. Maybe if you mean the Olympics, but that’s not what most people are really after.

Height and the idea that if you are a standout at 10 you won’t be good anymore at 16 are the most overstated things on this board. Yes, there are standout 10 year olds that are all around excellent athletes that end up choosing another sport or otherwise leaving swim, but if you look at the elite swimmers almost all of them were also excellent when they were 10. None of the elite swimmers were merely average when they were young and then became elite once they hit HS.

Saying that a D1 was a standout at 10 is different than saying a standout at 10 will be a D1 swimmer. The first statement is probably true, but many standout 10 year olds don't end up being elite college swimmers.

Of course. The point is the most successful teenagers emerge from the group of already successful 10 and 11 year olds. The odds are still against any one successful 11 year old being an elite teen swimmer, but the odds of a B or BB swimmer making it are almost impossibly long

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s a question for the seasoned parents: how does a kid who has B times at the bottom of the age group typically progress? Do they make A times by the time they’re at the top? Just curious as I have a 9 year old who just did their first winter meet as a 9-10 and got a couple of B (close to BB) times. Late spring bday, so won’t age up in winter swim until the 2025-26 season. Swimming twice a week right now because of other sports they enjoy more, which I do not see changing anytime soon.

I would not expect a huge amount of time drops if your swimmer is not swimming 3 times a week at that age. Maybe a little if their technique was bad and is improving drastically.

That said, it’s not all about time drops and B times etc. As long as your kid is enjoying swimming, keep at it at the level that works for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s a question for the seasoned parents: how does a kid who has B times at the bottom of the age group typically progress? Do they make A times by the time they’re at the top? Just curious as I have a 9 year old who just did their first winter meet as a 9-10 and got a couple of B (close to BB) times. Late spring bday, so won’t age up in winter swim until the 2025-26 season. Swimming twice a week right now because of other sports they enjoy more, which I do not see changing anytime soon.

I would not expect a huge amount of time drops if your swimmer is not swimming 3 times a week at that age. Maybe a little if their technique was bad and is improving drastically.

That said, it’s not all about time drops and B times etc. As long as your kid is enjoying swimming, keep at it at the level that works for you.

This. I am heavily involved with swim. One kid is an addict to swim and works hard. My others, love swimming but are not passionate. They all enjoy meets and their friends, etc.

The zealout swimmer could swim collegiate level, and right not wants to and is working towards that. I do not want that for my kid. I would rather they swim for fun and have a normal college experience. Parents need to ask what is the end game with swim? The answer should be just to love swimming and want to be better. I have seen parents get so upset at meets when their kid is not trying or staying within their motivational time band with their times. Yet the kid is fine and goofing off on deck with their friends. I get the parent that gets upset because they are going to have an angry/frustrated/crying kid -- because that hurts our hearts. But if the kid is fine and enjoying the experience, then why is the parent so bent?

Kids need to drive what they want to do, and we need to step back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s a question for the seasoned parents: how does a kid who has B times at the bottom of the age group typically progress? Do they make A times by the time they’re at the top? Just curious as I have a 9 year old who just did their first winter meet as a 9-10 and got a couple of B (close to BB) times. Late spring bday, so won’t age up in winter swim until the 2025-26 season. Swimming twice a week right now because of other sports they enjoy more, which I do not see changing anytime soon.

I am not sure there is a typical progression. As long as they like it, that is the most important thing. And, I disagree with PPs - I personally know kids with B times at 10 who ended up swimming in college, both D3 and D1. These kids really committed further down the road and ended up in a very serious training group. It does happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s a question for the seasoned parents: how does a kid who has B times at the bottom of the age group typically progress? Do they make A times by the time they’re at the top? Just curious as I have a 9 year old who just did their first winter meet as a 9-10 and got a couple of B (close to BB) times. Late spring bday, so won’t age up in winter swim until the 2025-26 season. Swimming twice a week right now because of other sports they enjoy more, which I do not see changing anytime soon.

My child started with B times at 9 and was swimming AAAA/AAA times by the end of 9/10. Those times are now A times in 11/12. We'll see if she ends up at AAAA/AA by the end of 12.

She works very hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s a question for the seasoned parents: how does a kid who has B times at the bottom of the age group typically progress? Do they make A times by the time they’re at the top? Just curious as I have a 9 year old who just did their first winter meet as a 9-10 and got a couple of B (close to BB) times. Late spring bday, so won’t age up in winter swim until the 2025-26 season. Swimming twice a week right now because of other sports they enjoy more, which I do not see changing anytime soon.

I would not expect a huge amount of time drops if your swimmer is not swimming 3 times a week at that age. Maybe a little if their technique was bad and is improving drastically.

That said, it’s not all about time drops and B times etc. As long as your kid is enjoying swimming, keep at it at the level that works for you.

I think B times are great for a first winter swim meet, especially if your swimmer is only going twice a week. It's foreseeable that he or she will move up to A times before aging up. You could add in a third day of practice next year. Keep it fun and they will want to stick with it.