Dogwood Elementary (or other Reston public schools)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am very curious about the school as I feed into it and my child will start their next school year. My neighborhood is beautiful and one would not think we feed into Dogwood, but we do. I have no idea where all the kids in my neighborhood go to school but there are a lot of kids so I can't see them all going to private. When the time comes, I will go and visit the school and see how I feel about the environment. The online stats may be worse than what I see in person. My child's daycare is very diverse so he is already exposed to different cultures. I am more concerned over the quality of the education than anything else. I am hoping someone will post some up to date information as to what the school is really like.

I'm the poster who said I want to buy in and start a trend. We should start some sort of word of mouth campaign.

I THINK I know what neighborhood you're in as I believe it is the one where my friend lives. Here is what I think is going on - the school was forced to offer transfer options under NCLB for not meeting NCLB for 2 years. The kids could transfer to either Sunrise Valley or Crossfield (I think?) The families in your neighborhood either took that transfer option, got into a lottery program (Hunters Woods or one of the several language immersion schools) or went private, or even possibly homeschooled.

Dogwood met NCLB last year and if it passes this year, will no longer offer those transfer options. And the white students will start returning, as will their very involved parents. (Not saying this school doesn't already have an active PTA - it actually does from what I can gather online)

We're applying to the lottery schools that accept K students to get out of our neighborhood school that still has half-day K, and it appears we will be competing with Dogwood parents for those limited spots. We want to buy a single family home, and that area is more affordable. We shall see what happens.

[Anonymous]

I do not have direct experience with Dogwood, but have you looked closely at the test scores and student population? Here's the deal: Dogwood has 57% hispanic students and 17% black students and 16 % white students. It's test scores are on par for Virginia state average scores when all the scores are considered as a whole. If you look at the break down by race, white students are scoring a "9" out of "10" compared to all students in Virginia. If your child is white, he or she is going to do very well. The "average" score on the whole has to do with the amount of minority kids who are most likely struggling with language problems and perhaps some poverty issues. I highly doubt that there are any problems with the teaching when you have a group of kids scoring in the top 90% of kids in Virginia.

This isssue is the same issue all over Fairfax County. My kids go to Island Creek... it's more diverse than some schools in the west, but it's not a "bad" school. Same with many of the high schools that have "bad" reputations on this board (Hayfield, Edison, South Lakes, etc.). The school's composite scores directly correlate with the percentage of non-white, non-asian kids. But, if you look more closely at how kids in each group are doing, you see similarities among students whether they go to South Lakes or McClean.

Bottom line, if you are not a minority, your child will do fine in Dogwood. You have to decide if you feel comfortable being the "minority" in a school that has 16% white kids, and that is your decision to make. But, the stats would suggest that there is nothing wrong with the teaching at Dogwood.
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Parent of a student in what most on this board consider an "undesireable" school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do not have direct experience with Dogwood, but have you looked closely at the test scores and student population? Here's the deal: Dogwood has 57% hispanic students and 17% black students and 16 % white students. It's test scores are on par for Virginia state average scores when all the scores are considered as a whole. If you look at the break down by race, white students are scoring a "9" out of "10" compared to all students in Virginia. If your child is white, he or she is going to do very well. The "average" score on the whole has to do with the amount of minority kids who are most likely struggling with language problems and perhaps some poverty issues. I highly doubt that there are any problems with the teaching when you have a group of kids scoring in the top 90% of kids in Virginia.

This isssue is the same issue all over Fairfax County. My kids go to Island Creek... it's more diverse than some schools in the west, but it's not a "bad" school. Same with many of the high schools that have "bad" reputations on this board (Hayfield, Edison, South Lakes, etc.). The school's composite scores directly correlate with the percentage of non-white, non-asian kids. But, if you look more closely at how kids in each group are doing, you see similarities among students whether they go to South Lakes or McClean.

Bottom line, if you are not a minority, your child will do fine in Dogwood. You have to decide if you feel comfortable being the "minority" in a school that has 16% white kids, and that is your decision to make. But, the stats would suggest that there is nothing wrong with the teaching at Dogwood.
---
Parent of a student in what most on this board consider an "undesireable" school.

THANK YOU! These posts are quite helpful and informative. It seems to me that all the NCLB sanctions have done in this case is drive white families out, concentrating poverty and minorties even more heavily in one school. THIS just makes the issues even HARDER to overcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am very curious about the school as I feed into it and my child will start their next school year. My neighborhood is beautiful and one would not think we feed into Dogwood, but we do. I have no idea where all the kids in my neighborhood go to school but there are a lot of kids so I can't see them all going to private. When the time comes, I will go and visit the school and see how I feel about the environment. The online stats may be worse than what I see in person. My child's daycare is very diverse so he is already exposed to different cultures. I am more concerned over the quality of the education than anything else. I am hoping someone will post some up to date information as to what the school is really like.

Have you talked with the parents in your neighborhood to get an idea of where they are sending their children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do not have direct experience with Dogwood, but have you looked closely at the test scores and student population? Here's the deal: Dogwood has 57% hispanic students and 17% black students and 16 % white students. It's test scores are on par for Virginia state average scores when all the scores are considered as a whole. If you look at the break down by race, white students are scoring a "9" out of "10" compared to all students in Virginia. If your child is white, he or she is going to do very well. The "average" score on the whole has to do with the amount of minority kids who are most likely struggling with language problems and perhaps some poverty issues. I highly doubt that there are any problems with the teaching when you have a group of kids scoring in the top 90% of kids in Virginia.

This isssue is the same issue all over Fairfax County. My kids go to Island Creek... it's more diverse than some schools in the west, but it's not a "bad" school. Same with many of the high schools that have "bad" reputations on this board (Hayfield, Edison, South Lakes, etc.). The school's composite scores directly correlate with the percentage of non-white, non-asian kids. But, if you look more closely at how kids in each group are doing, you see similarities among students whether they go to South Lakes or McClean.

Bottom line, if you are not a minority, your child will do fine in Dogwood. You have to decide if you feel comfortable being the "minority" in a school that has 16% white kids, and that is your decision to make. But, the stats would suggest that there is nothing wrong with the teaching at Dogwood.
---
Parent of a student in what most on this board consider an "undesireable" school.

Everything you say is valid and true. And I will have to admit (and it really mortifies me to say this), but it would bother me being in the 16%. I know, horrible, but true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have to decide if you feel comfortable being the "minority" in a school that has 16% white kids, and that is your decision to make. But, the stats would suggest that there is nothing wrong with the teaching at Dogwood.

Just be aware about bullying. My DD attended a "less than desirable school" in FCPS (not Dogwood) and, as a non-Spanish speaker, was bullied in 1st and 2nd grades by classmates that spoke Spanish. They would laugh at her at recess and in the hallways, talking about her (in Spanish) behind her back, etc. The teacher was aware and spoke to the girls but the bullying continued. Thankfully DD no longer attends that school, and is now at another FCPS elementary school and is quite happy (and not bullied).

[Anonymous]

To 10:49 -- I think it is a valid consideration, so I don't judge you or anyone else. It's valid to consider whether the culture of the school will feel exclusionary to your child or to you as a parent who might want to be involved. I have a friend whose child is the only white student in the entire first grade of a school in PG county. It hasn't been an issue for the child or the parent, but it is fair to admit that different groups have different life experiences that influence the feel/activities of the school. No child likes to feel like an outsider. Maybe a meeting with the principle and/or teachers would reduce concerns or give a parent a better perspective than making assumptions (and paying $10K/yr. for private school as a result of those assumptions).

It's a tough situation when you want "the best" for your child. I just bristle at all the comments (on many other threads) that characterize certain Fairfax County schools as "bad schools" because they have a more diverse student body -- some students struggle with passing state tests while other students are passing them in very high percentages. It's not the school that is failing to teach. But, I do understand the realities of wanting a safe school and a place where your child fits in.

[Anonymous]

which in this school's case is why I REALLY think they need to reach out to the local community and explain that a neighborhood school where half the neighborhood runs scared from the school cannot function properly. There are several neighborhoods that feed into this school that are by NO means high povery and/or full of minority students. That is what is really bugging me about this. The better off part of the neighborhood has abandonned the school. That isn't what the NCLB sanctions were SUPPOSED to do, but it is how they have played out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everything you say is valid and true. And I will have to admit (and it really mortifies me to say this), but it would bother me being in the 16%. I know, horrible, but true.

It wasn't all valid. The premise seemed to be that students of the same racial background do the same at all FCPS schools, so a school's overall performance will simply reflect the racial mix at that school. That's a simplistic premise that turns out not to be true. For example, Asian kids at Langley do better than Asian kids at Lee, and white kids at McLean do better than white kids at South Lakes or South County.

Now it may be that some kids at Dogwood do extremely well, but it's not necesarily because they are white. It may be because they have good teachers, or because they receive a lot of parental support outside of school, or both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:which in this school's case is why I REALLY think they need to reach out to the local community and explain that a neighborhood school where half the neighborhood runs scared from the school cannot function properly. There are several neighborhoods that feed into this school that are by NO means high povery and/or full of minority students. That is what is really bugging me about this. The better off part of the neighborhood has abandonned the school. That isn't what the NCLB sanctions were SUPPOSED to do, but it is how they have played out.

You may be right that NCLB exacerbates the problem it was intended to address. My understanding, however, is that the school did reach out to in-boundary parents last summer before school started and appealed to them to keep their kids at Dogwood and not avail of the transfer options.

Keep in mind, however, that it's rather challenging to craft the sort of message you might like the school to convey. If the message comes across primarily as an appeal to the high-income parents, the administration would surely get slammed. And telling the local parents that the school can't function properly without them could send even more of them running to the exits. Parents in this area are very conservative when it comes to their children's education. They don't want to be told that they or their children are the solution to someone else's problem; they want to hear instead that their kids will have every opportunity at school to maximize their learning potential.

[Anonymous]

Actually, 17:20, you are mistaken in your facts. The SOL scores for white kids at McLean and South County are the same (9 out of 10 -- based on greatschools comparison to all white kids in VA) and Asian kids at McLean, South County and South LAKES are the same (8 out of 10). The scores for white kids at South Lakes are at 7, which just reflects that the wealth for white kids at south lakes is a little lower than at McLean or South County, but having a passing rate that is better than 70% of Va schools is not bad in my book.

With Asian kids there is always the chance that a certain school has more asian kids who are ESOL or lower income, and there are variations for every group that reflect the economic level of the group. But, on the whole, in my mind, it shows that each of the schools mentioned is providing quality teaching and it's not a matter of being a "bad" school when certain groups pass tests in just as high of percentages as the supposed "great" schools in Ffx. It seems to me that the schools with "great" reputations are just schools that have more white kids who come from educated families with higher-income families.

BTW, Lee doesn't actually have enough Asian students to constitute a group b/c they are less than 1% of the student population... so check your facts before you make your claims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, 17:20, you are mistaken in your facts. The SOL scores for white kids at McLean and South County are the same (9 out of 10 -- based on greatschools comparison to all white kids in VA) and Asian kids at McLean, South County and South LAKES are the same (8 out of 10). The scores for white kids at South Lakes are at 7, which just reflects that the wealth for white kids at south lakes is a little lower than at McLean or South County, but having a passing rate that is better than 70% of Va schools is not bad in my book.

With Asian kids there is always the chance that a certain school has more asian kids who are ESOL or lower income, and there are variations for every group that reflect the economic level of the group. But, on the whole, in my mind, it shows that each of the schools mentioned is providing quality teaching and it's not a matter of being a "bad" school when certain groups pass tests in just as high of percentages as the supposed "great" schools in Ffx. It seems to me that the schools with "great" reputations are just schools that have more white kids who come from educated families with higher-income families.

BTW, Lee doesn't actually have enough Asian students to constitute a group b/c they are less than 1% of the student population... so check your facts before you make your claims.

I was referring to SAT scores, not SOLs. Guess you weren't. But if you want to compare SOL results, don't you need to adjust for the fact that students at some schools tend to take more advanced classes than at others (so, for example, you'll have more 10th or 11th graders at Edison taking Geometry than at Langley, where most students who take Geometry are 9th graders).

Lee HS has among the highest percentage of Asian students of any high school in Fairfax County. Perhaps you had a different school outside Fairfax County in mind? Either that, or you have your facts wrong.

At the end of the day, what ought to count is whether a school helps all the students who attend it reach their potential. The issue with respect to schools like Dogwood is that some parents simply aren't comfortable that this will occur - and a general assertion that schools with "good" or "great" reputations are simply those with more white kids from upper-income families isn't going to get them over the hump. You might be more persuasive if you made use of data that actually related to Dogwood and other elementary schools, not high schools.

[Anonymous]

18:35... I'm getting tired. Look back in the postings and you will see that I did cite the SOL test scores that were for Dogwood students and it turns out that white students at Dogwood (while only 15-16% of the student population) passed the SOL at a rate better than 90% of Virginia schools (they rank a 9 out of 10). At the same school, black and hispanic students were passing at about the same rate as Virginia schools as a whole (a 4 or 5 out of 10 --- with 5 representing an average passing rate equal to the state average). Persuasive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:18:35... I'm getting tired. Look back in the postings and you will see that I did cite the SOL test scores that were for Dogwood students and it turns out that white students at Dogwood (while only 15-16% of the student population) passed the SOL at a rate better than 90% of Virginia schools (they rank a 9 out of 10). At the same school, black and hispanic students were passing at about the same rate as Virginia schools as a whole (a 4 or 5 out of 10 --- with 5 representing an average passing rate equal to the state average). Persuasive.

You should probably leave it at that, then, rather than speculate as to what may account for differences at other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am very curious about the school as I feed into it and my child will start their next school year. My neighborhood is beautiful and one would not think we feed into Dogwood, but we do. I have no idea where all the kids in my neighborhood go to school but there are a lot of kids so I can't see them all going to private. When the time comes, I will go and visit the school and see how I feel about the environment. The online stats may be worse than what I see in person. My child's daycare is very diverse so he is already exposed to different cultures. I am more concerned over the quality of the education than anything else. I am hoping someone will post some up to date information as to what the school is really like.

Have you talked with the parents in your neighborhood to get an idea of where they are sending their children?

All neighbors, both sides, front and back are retired -LOL! So they have no input on what the school is like. I do not know others in the neighborhood but will be going out and about over the summer to get to know other parents to see what they do. Every morning there is a FFX Cty school bus that does come through for the several bus stops on my street. I have no idea if they take the kids to a transfer school or actually to Dogwood. My coworker, who lives in a different neighborhood, did take the transfer option but you do need to apply every year for it. If the school stays accredited, my kids will go there unless we lotto into Hunter Woods or Lake Anne (for immersion). But I do believe these schools did not meet the testing standards for last year even though their demographics are different. I have looked at other websites with parent comments about Dogwood and most parents say the teaching is very individually based so they teach based off of where your child is at. The class sizes are smaller and there is a full time GT teacher. I guess time will tell but like I said in my original post, I will visit the school and talk to parents there to get more comfortable before I start really stressing over it.

May I ask which neighborhood you are looking at? I am in Polo Fields and just love the neighborhood. Metro will be right across the street one day and that is now more of a neighborhood concern than anything else. Do you have kids that will start school shortly or are you inquiring for future children?