Is AP Physics 1 -- such low pass rates?

[Anonymous]

Follow Trevor Packer on Twitter. He’s the head of AP at the College Board. Here’s his explanation: https://twitter.com/ap_trevor/status/1669441031140528154?s=46&t=obB0UALEWQ7SUwdSFTspEA (Copied here for you: (People sometimes ask why scores for Physics 1 are significantly lower than those of other AP STEM subjects; AP Physics 1 is typically students’ first physics course, whereas AP Biology and AP Chemistry are typically students’ second bio and chem courses.)

[Anonymous]

In the recent past, about 140,000 kids took Physics 1, 46k took Physics C Mech, and 21K took Physics C EM.

Just like with Calc BC vs AB, the percentage of 5s is much higher in the “harder” courses. I’m not sure if the curve is a little different or if it’s just about selection of better students into the harder courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Follow Trevor Packer on Twitter. He’s the head of AP at the College Board. Here’s his explanation: https://twitter.com/ap_trevor/status/1669441031140528154?s=46&t=obB0UALEWQ7SUwdSFTspEA (Copied here for you: (People sometimes ask why scores for Physics 1 are significantly lower than those of other AP STEM subjects; AP Physics 1 is typically students’ first physics course, whereas AP Biology and AP Chemistry are typically students’ second bio and chem courses.)

Yes, I think this is part of the answer. Physics 1 is designed to be taken without calculus. Physics C is, according to my kid who took both, a repeat of the class just using calculus instead of algebra. He found it a waste of time. His take is the the calculus that is needed for Physics C is fairly straightforward and there is not need for the two separate classes. Students who do not know calculus could learn the calculus needed for the course as part of the course.

No idea if that has merit. My kid is a strong math student so I am not sure his perspective is the right way to look at it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s another perspective: my (humanities-focused) kid just got a 3 on the AP Physics 1 exam and is over the moon. His teacher was fantastic but didn’t teach to the test, so he learned the subject and managed to pass the exam. For a kid who was terrified about taking AP physics, this feels like a win-win!

(Meanwhile, he got a 5 on APUSH, which was completely taught to the test; they rushed through certain things to ensure they were prepared for the test, which feels backward to me in terms of subject mastery.)

We are the same. Humanities focused generally A student DC was thrilled he got a 3. So are we!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow Trevor Packer on Twitter. He’s the head of AP at the College Board. Here’s his explanation: https://twitter.com/ap_trevor/status/1669441031140528154?s=46&t=obB0UALEWQ7SUwdSFTspEA (Copied here for you: (People sometimes ask why scores for Physics 1 are significantly lower than those of other AP STEM subjects; AP Physics 1 is typically students’ first physics course, whereas AP Biology and AP Chemistry are typically students’ second bio and chem courses.)

Yes, I think this is part of the answer. Physics 1 is designed to be taken without calculus. Physics C is, according to my kid who took both, a repeat of the class just using calculus instead of algebra. He found it a waste of time. His take is the the calculus that is needed for Physics C is fairly straightforward and there is not need for the two separate classes. Students who do not know calculus could learn the calculus needed for the course as part of the course.

No idea if that has merit. My kid is a strong math student so I am not sure his perspective is the right way to look at it.

After taking both, my kid's opinion is that knowing and using calculus makes Physics C much easier than Physics 1. Physics 1's use of algebra makes physics concepts much more complicated.

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all who helped answer this question!

-OP

[Anonymous]

What's weird is that AP Bio and AP Chem are 2 semester college courses. But students take HS Bio and Chem first

AP Physics C is split into half (Mechanics , E&M), and mechanics is usually a full year course, because students didn't take a high school physics class.

So basically it was a high school year and and college semester , in one intensive year.

Physics 1/B used to be rare but now is more common. It's the science equivalent of the new AP Precalc - AP for non majors.

So if you take Physics 1, and then Physics C, makes a lot more sense to take mechanics and e&m together in one year (one semester each) to complete two college semesters, similar to the Bio and Chem sequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does AP Physics 1 (algebra based physics) have low scores and low pass rates?

Is it the lack of teachers who can actually teach it well? (I'm in FCPS and even here the pass rates are quite low compared to other APs).

Are there kids taking this AP exam without taking the class?

It seems like most of the kids taking AP Physics 1 would be the more math-capable, science-interested students (those looking at STEM college degrees). And it's based on algebra... so why such trouble getting 4's and 5's on this particular subject test?

Just knowing algebra isn't enough. Physics requires learning and memorizing and knowing when to apply new formulas (velocity, acceleration etc etc), so if you don't know those formulas, you are stuck.

Incorrect. The formulas are provided with the test, for both Physics 1 and Physics C.

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/ap/ap-physics-1-equations-table.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow Trevor Packer on Twitter. He’s the head of AP at the College Board. Here’s his explanation: https://twitter.com/ap_trevor/status/1669441031140528154?s=46&t=obB0UALEWQ7SUwdSFTspEA (Copied here for you: (People sometimes ask why scores for Physics 1 are significantly lower than those of other AP STEM subjects; AP Physics 1 is typically students’ first physics course, whereas AP Biology and AP Chemistry are typically students’ second bio and chem courses.)

Yes, I think this is part of the answer. Physics 1 is designed to be taken without calculus. Physics C is, according to my kid who took both, a repeat of the class just using calculus instead of algebra. He found it a waste of time. His take is the the calculus that is needed for Physics C is fairly straightforward and there is not need for the two separate classes. Students who do not know calculus could learn the calculus needed for the course as part of the course.

No idea if that has merit. My kid is a strong math student so I am not sure his perspective is the right way to look at it.

After taking both, my kid's opinion is that knowing and using calculus makes Physics C much easier than Physics 1. Physics 1's use of algebra makes physics concepts much more complicated.

True. The formulas are magical spells in algebra physics. Calculus is the machinery that shows you why the formulas are natural consequences of simple constants.

"Discrete calculus" or numerical approximation can bridge the gap, especially for the modern digitally informed student, but continuous calculus is more elegant, and the "magic" is all in one essential core, and the rest follows more clearly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the recent past, about 140,000 kids took Physics 1, 46k took Physics C Mech, and 21K took Physics C EM.

Just like with Calc BC vs AB, the percentage of 5s is much higher in the “harder” courses. I’m not sure if the curve is a little different or if it’s just about selection of better students into the harder courses.

This

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the recent past, about 140,000 kids took Physics 1, 46k took Physics C Mech, and 21K took Physics C EM.

Just like with Calc BC vs AB, the percentage of 5s is much higher in the “harder” courses. I’m not sure if the curve is a little different or if it’s just about selection of better students into the harder courses.

bolded

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, some high schools don’t even offer AP Physics C. I’m looking at you, Einstein, unless the situation has changed in the last few years.

[Anonymous]

AP Physics is a mess. Physics 1, and 2 cover more topics but they are very light, barely a college class, definitely won’t count for credit in a STEM major. Physics C (both Mechanics and Electromagnetism) are more rigorous, but only cover half the topics in a general physics class.

For a student that is interested and is advanced in math I’d recommend a three semester general physics class through dual enrollment, but you’d have to complete Calculus BC and multivariable as a prerequisite.

Physics 1 is bad because it’s trying to avoid calculus so it won’t provide a solid foundation, but at the same time goes over a lot of material so you’ll end up with a disconnected collection of formulas. Not surprised kids don’t do well, it’s just a bad class offering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's weird is that AP Bio and AP Chem are 2 semester college courses. But students take HS Bio and Chem first

AP Physics C is split into half (Mechanics , E&M), and mechanics is usually a full year course, because students didn't take a high school physics class.

So basically it was a high school year and and college semester , in one intensive year.

Physics 1/B used to be rare but now is more common. It's the science equivalent of the new AP Precalc - AP for non majors.

So if you take Physics 1, and then Physics C, makes a lot more sense to take mechanics and e&m together in one year (one semester each) to complete two college semesters, similar to the Bio and Chem sequences.

I'm not sure I understand you. AP Chem is equal to ONE semester of college chemistry. AP Bio is also equivalent to ONE semester of college biology.

AP Physics C - mech is like one semester of college Physics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's weird is that AP Bio and AP Chem are 2 semester college courses. But students take HS Bio and Chem first

AP Physics C is split into half (Mechanics , E&M), and mechanics is usually a full year course, because students didn't take a high school physics class.

So basically it was a high school year and and college semester , in one intensive year.

Physics 1/B used to be rare but now is more common. It's the science equivalent of the new AP Precalc - AP for non majors.

So if you take Physics 1, and then Physics C, makes a lot more sense to take mechanics and e&m together in one year (one semester each) to complete two college semesters, similar to the Bio and Chem sequences.

I'm not sure I understand you. AP Chem is equal to ONE semester of college chemistry. AP Bio is also equivalent to ONE semester of college biology.

AP Physics C - mech is like one semester of college Physics.

No, AP chem/bio each cover a full year (two semesters) of college courses, as per the AP descriptions and AP credit policies at most public colleges. Private colleges tend to be stingier with granting credit, so they may offer only one semester of credit or none at all. Each of the two Physics C exams covers a semester, and high school courses may either cover only mechanics or both.