Taking classes for high school credit in middle school

[Anonymous]

OP, We're a new MCPS family, my son's going into 6th grade and I found this policy alarming. In my case it helped my decision that my child will take reading, and not a foreign language in 6th, it just seems to early for both the pressure of a high school level course, and for the grade to count. Since we're new to the county, I don't have a sense yet of how my son will do with their standards and grading system, and while I agree that a B is fine, I couldn't risk a much lower grade.

One thing I thought was interesting was that by waiting for 7th grade we have the option of stretching the first year high school language course over 2 years. If we'd had that option for sixth (so the final would be taken in 7th and they take Spanish or French II in 8th) I might have gone for it.

As far as "erasing" the grade from the transcript, if you take the class again in high school it does that, but a child who starts a language in 6th would have to go back 3 levels to do that. It doesn't appear that you can switch languages and erase it that way.

[Anonymous]

OP here. You are overreading, and ASSuming problems, issues, and intent that are not there.

No sour grapes here. Obviously we went into this with open eyes. There was no "matter" to resolve last fall, or for that matter this spring. I have no issue with his grade; it's perfectly respectable.

The point of starting this thread - as I said above - My issue is with the system in general - not with my child's particular situation. I think it's stupid for any school system to set things up this way. In the case of MCPS, I imagine it's a symptom of Jerry Weast's unnatural obsession with all things College.

In any case, thanks to those who posted helpful comments.

I understand now. Of course, I'm sure you would have brought this up even if you child had gotten an A...instead of a B. Bientot!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. You are overreading, and ASSuming problems, issues, and intent that are not there.

No sour grapes here. Obviously we went into this with open eyes. There was no "matter" to resolve last fall, or for that matter this spring. I have no issue with his grade; it's perfectly respectable.

The point of starting this thread - as I said above - My issue is with the system in general - not with my child's particular situation. I think it's stupid for any school system to set things up this way. In the case of MCPS, I imagine it's a symptom of Jerry Weast's unnatural obsession with all things College.

In any case, thanks to those who posted helpful comments.

I understand now. Of course, I'm sure you would have brought this up even if you child had gotten an A...instead of a B. Bientot!

You are a piece of work.

[Anonymous]

If you knew the policy I still don't understand the complaining. I have to agree that if the dc got an A, the post would be about how smart my child is that he can do hs coursework and get and A. If you don't like the policy, then work to change it before complaining about the grade.

[Anonymous]

Not really. Simply just trying to understand your motivation. If the A grade matters so much to you on the high school transcript then do not take the high school subject in elementary or middle school. There are other potential options for advanced learning including auditing the class in community college, local university, online offerings to avoid this issue. Of course, the auditing issue requires securing advance permission. But, if there is no skin in the game then what is to prevent a slew of middle students from floading the high school classrooms to take advanced languages, math, literature and sciences. Who will fill the empty middle school seats? Are you prepared to pay more in property and state taxes to make this possible and provide high schools the resources to accommodate this influx of students who will take high school courses -- not for credit? What about many qualified elementary students ready to take middle and some high school courses early? How do you propose this system to work in public schools supported by State and County taxes?

You, my dear, are the piece of work who has failed to logically think through your wish and how it might practically be accomplished or implemented. Rather than bitch, moan and throw darts what is your solution to this for all kids ... not just erasure of a B grade for your child. How many qualified middle school children would take high school courses if they had the option to erase grades from their high school transcripts? This is a no brainer ... open the flood gates!

[Anonymous]

If the poster of the question is indeed truthfull she should acknowledge that her son and her were informed if the middle school child took the high school course that the grade would appear on his high school transcript. Both were aware of the consequences before the child enrolled. Why wasn't this matter resolved then. Of course, now that he did not get the A grade anticipated we have a case a sour grapes and a need to retroactively change the rules for her son. What about about other children who not only that languages but math and sciences in the MCPS high schools while in middle school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not audit the class instead of opting for a grade? Afterall it's the passion for language and knowledge gained that counts and not the grade.

Can you do that in middle school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the poster of the question is indeed truthfull she should acknowledge that her son and her were informed if the middle school child took the high school course that the grade would appear on his high school transcript. Both were aware of the consequences before the child enrolled. Why wasn't this matter resolved then. Of course, now that he did not get the A grade anticipated we have a case a sour grapes and a need to retroactively change the rules for her son. What about about other children who not only that languages but math and sciences in the MCPS high schools while in middle school?

I think the major problem with this policy is that it discourages foreign language training at the earlier ages. Every bit of research I've ever read says that the earlier language training begins the better the outcome in terms of fluency, accent and actual ease of mastery. Even MoCo promotes this when discussing their elementary school immersion programs. So MoCo is not practicing what it preaches.

I'm not aware of middle school science classes that receive high school credit.

[Anonymous]

If the A grade matters so much to you on the high school transcript then do not take the high school subject in elementary or middle school. There are other potential options for advanced learning including auditing the class in community college, local university, online offerings to avoid this issue.

Why should the ONLY language classes offered in middle school be ADVANCED? What about a BEGINNING language class for 11 year olds. It is completely asinine!

[Anonymous]

Consider exploring this with school and county leadership. I suspect the answer lies in the number of students that sign up for a particular language class and the number of language teachers to teach such classes. It amounts to $$$. It may explain why many public schools are doing away with offering French and why the College Board has done away with the AP exam in Italian and French!

Supply/demand economics at the public system level.

[Anonymous]

If the A grade matters so much to you on the high school transcript then do not take the high school subject in elementary or middle school. There are other potential options for advanced learning including auditing the class in community college, local university, online offerings to avoid this issue.

Why should the ONLY language classes offered in middle school be ADVANCED? What about a BEGINNING language class for 11 year olds. It is completely asinine!

Have you considered paying for a tutor if this is so important for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If the A grade matters so much to you on the high school transcript then do not take the high school subject in elementary or middle school. There are other potential options for advanced learning including auditing the class in community college, local university, online offerings to avoid this issue.

Why should the ONLY language classes offered in middle school be ADVANCED? What about a BEGINNING language class for 11 year olds. It is completely asinine!

Have you considered paying for a tutor if this is so important for you?

We have been paying a tutor. And, yes, this issue is important to me. I grew up on military bases in France, Germany and Italy. I went to the schools that were located on base. The schools I went to did not have language classes....it wasn't considered important during the Cold War. I took my first language class as 10th grader once we were back in the states. Yes, I'm a little bitter that I lived in foreign countries for a good part of my childhood but never had the opportunity to learn the languages when I was young. It was much harder as a teenager.

I think the US is a little more enlightened now in it's attitude about the benefit and value of learning other languages. That's why I'm irritated and disappointed in MCPS approach.

[Anonymous]

I understand your plight. I, too, grew up outside the US until the age of 13. The problem in the US is that fewer students sign up for French and Italian at the high school level and as such many such courses that existed in the 70s and 80s are now eliminated--including the AP examinations for French and Italian. Perhaps if these languages were offered much earlier in elementary school a critical mass of interest may persist through high school. I'm not sure sure what the actual demand would be in elementary school. My only experience is via PTA (FLES) offerings. Both my K and 3 have taken Spanish for 2 years (1 class per week) via this system (They take Mandarin on weekends X 2 years). There are few students in these Spanish classes and MCPS in Potomac has a time filling spots and has to cancel some of the classes due to lack of interest and enrollment. There are many more students taking Mandarin at the weekend Chinese schools hosted in the MCPS high schools on Saturdays and Sunday. By the way, we are not Asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand your plight. I, too, grew up outside the US until the age of 13. The problem in the US is that fewer students sign up for French and Italian at the high school level and as such many such courses that existed in the 70s and 80s are now eliminated--including the AP examinations for French and Italian. Perhaps if these languages were offered much earlier in elementary school a critical mass of interest may persist through high school. I'm not sure sure what the actual demand would be in elementary school. My only experience is via PTA (FLES) offerings. Both my K and 3 have taken Spanish for 2 years (1 class per week) via this system (They take Mandarin on weekends X 2 years). There are few students in these Spanish classes and MCPS in Potomac has a time filling spots and has to cancel some of the classes due to lack of interest and enrollment. There are many more students taking Mandarin at the weekend Chinese schools hosted in the MCPS high schools on Saturdays and Sunday. By the way, we are not Asian.

How is that going for you as a non-Asian family? My Dc's (non-Asian, also) were in the chinese immersion program for several years. I checked out the weekend schools but they were way too ethnic for us. Parents all spoke Mandarin to each other, kids were all speaking Mandarin, DS was terrified by it all. The couple of times we attended we were looked at and treated like oddities. Maybe if we had some connection with any of the people there it would have been more successful.

[Anonymous]

Well alot of my children's friends at school and on the swim team are Asian so they wanted to learn the language. This is more important to us as parents. While we can't help them with the language (we don't speak Mandarin and are too old and fibrotic to bother to learn). The kids are OK with it. Therefore, we are OK.