Article on "counseling out" from schools

[SAM2]

Here's an interesting NY Times article from today on schools counseling out students: http://goo.gl/3kgQN

[Anonymous]

Didn't think it said much that was enlightening.

[Anonymous]

Enlightening no, but interesting in the context that a similar phenomenon exists in the D.C. area. Most DCUMMIES posting (as opposed to hovering) on this board however continue to reflexly insist their kids do not prep for standardized tests (WPPSI on up the ladder), do not use tutoring services or extracurricular classes and that their kids entering in PK, K, 1st are universally as bright and accomplished than the superstars recruited in later years (for stats purposes) in D.C. area private schools.

[Anonymous]

Talk about reading between the lines. Where in the article did it say that these kids had been prepped for the WPSSI? Where did it say that the kids weren't bright? Many kids who have trouble in schools have learning issues that don't become apparent until 3rd or 4th grade. It can be frustrating for the kids and parents who don't understand why their kid who seemingly is intelligent, can't process information or handle other types of work.

What the article said is that in the right teaching environment, the kids did better and became successful in school.

[Anonymous]

I wish our school would counsel more kids out.

[Anonymous]

Talk about reading between the lines. Where in the article did it say that these kids had been prepped for the WPSSI? Where did it say that the kids weren't bright? Many kids who have trouble in schools have learning issues that don't become apparent until 3rd or 4th grade. It can be frustrating for the kids and parents who don't understand why their kid who seemingly is intelligent, can't process information or handle other types of work.

What the article said is that in the right teaching environment, the kids did better and became successful in school.

By your definition, in the D.C. area, all kids below 99.9 percentile having learning issues. All average performing kids have learning issues ( any kid scoring 50 percentile on your most favorite test) has a learning issues. All B/C average and below kids therefore have learning issues. What would explain why these children were not top performers? Tell me what a learning issue is? A child that can't get 99.9 percentile due to inability to process, focus, write, think, stay the course or inadequate, exposure, prep, and training. Tell me what part of the Bell shape curve for children's "intelligence" and test performance is attributable to a learning issue? I like the in-vogue manner the common layman throws around jargon/terms they have no clue and don't even understand. If you took the normal distribution of scores on a test can you identify those with learning disabilities? Or all students falling in the middle of the class/pack (B/C average, 50th percentile) and can't get to the top rung require special needs and accommodation for their learning disability? They do on DCUM since parents would have no explanation or excuse for why there child failed to get into the Big 3 or the Ivy league?

[Anonymous]

Translation: We all have learning issues -- some more than others and some less than others (think Bell shape curve for the degree of learning issues)

Anyone can make the argument their kid has a learning issue that could further be improved or refined. Afterall, who is perfect.

[Anonymous]

Interesting coda: "He still gets letters asking for donations."

[SAM2]

I just read the article as saying that despite the best efforts of schools and parents to admit only students that will be able to handle the work and otherwise fit into the school's environment, sometimes a bad fit occurs. When that happens, students are "counseled out" (asked to leave). That's hard for everyone involved.

The article doesn't go into great detail about why the fit may have turned bad. I suspect there are many possible reasons. Some of the comments to the article point to students that were disruptive in class or developed behavioral problems. A student might have tested well, and received good reviews from teachers, but later been unable to keep up with the work because those tests/recommendations were wrong, or even because the student had other life issues distracting her from her school performance.

[Anonymous]

I loved that the older boy who'd been counseled out ended up going to Columbia. See, you can be counseled out and still go Ivy!

[Anonymous]

Indeed, I know plenty of people who were counseled out of my school 25-30 years ago and went on to fine, productive and healthy lives. It isn't necessarily that the student isn't smart, but that the learning environment may not be suited to maximize their strengths.

Sure, it may be hard socially etc, but at the end of the day, it isn't necessarily a bad thing, or a statement about the student.