I don’t get DACA

[Anonymous]

I am only on page 1 so I am sorry if it has been said already.
But while I understand the human appeal, does anyone realize that any step towards legalization of those who entered illegally will open the floodgates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am only on page 1 so I am sorry if it has been said already.
But while I understand the human appeal, does anyone realize that any step towards legalization of those who entered illegally will open the floodgates?

To add, there are already many ppl who overstay, get married, and KNOW they will be allowed to legally stay. This loophole needs to end as well.
And I am a legal immigrant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am only on page 1 so I am sorry if it has been said already.
But while I understand the human appeal, does anyone realize that any step towards legalization of those who entered illegally will open the floodgates?

To add, there are already many ppl who overstay, get married, and KNOW they will be allowed to legally stay. This loophole needs to end as well.
And I am a legal immigrant.

Yes, many have said it, including most Conservatives. Sadly, on the Left it seems that only the legal immigrants are sensible on this issue. The American born Liberals are either too stupid or too intentionally clueless to get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?

If they were born in a different country, by definition they are citizens of that country - if citizenship to a country is not a strong connnection, why in the world are they trying so hard to become American citizens?

So they can drive and hold jobs without fear of being ripped away from their family.

Ahhhh, so they want to be Americans not because of some sense of connection to what it is to be American, but rather a selfish desire to drive a car, make money, and being closer to their family. Here I thought they were claiming some patriotic identiy of being an American. Thanks for clarifying that for me. They are no different from any other economic migrant who wants to be here for convenience.

Exactly.

I live in a MoCo neighborhood with a high number of illegal immigrants and my kids go to school with their kids. We know many of these families and that is exactly the case for most of them. They are here to earn money. Plain and simple.

I love how you generalize and speak for so many people! And overlook the unstable home countries where people are literally being raped and tortured and murdered by not only drug traffickers but also gangs and also law enforcement! Way to go. You must be so proud of your ability to paint with a broad brush.

Why is that our problem? There are a lot of unpleasant countries out there. And a lot of pleasant countries with much tighter immigration and citizenship laws than ours.

Because the US actually went in and disrupted these countries which caused them to fall apart. You should take a history class.

Yes, of course. The US has committed many atrocities and we should do a better job of minding our own business. Doesn’t mean we owe anyone anything or need to let the whole world come here.

The US destabilized these countries that people are coming from now for our own purposes. NOW you think we should mind our own business and no longer let people go through the legal process of applying for amnesty?

Typical GOP. It all comes down to race, doesn't it.

What ‘race’ do you feel it comes down to?

I’m not the PP but I live in MoCo and we have illegal immigrants from all over the world, and with all shades of skin color. White Israeli illegal immigrants, Asian immigrants, Eastern European illegal immigrants, Latino illegal immigrants, etc.

DP, but there is definitely a racial component for some objectors. As white voters edge toward becoming a shrinking plurality of the populace, there will be an electoral shift, which some feel will be irreversible in favor of Democrats. This is why Ann Coulter and other right wing elements are so stridently against DACA amnesty and so fervently in favor of border security measures. Electoral calculus.

Same reason why the Democrats are so in support of illegal immigration. An increase in their voter base. I guess they cancel each other out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am only on page 1 so I am sorry if it has been said already.
But while I understand the human appeal, does anyone realize that any step towards legalization of those who entered illegally will open the floodgates?

To add, there are already many ppl who overstay, get married, and KNOW they will be allowed to legally stay. This loophole needs to end as well.
And I am a legal immigrant.

Yes, many have said it, including most Conservatives. Sadly, on the Left it seems that only the legal immigrants are sensible on this issue. The American born Liberals are either too stupid or too intentionally clueless to get it.

Maybe part of it, but I think more of it has to do with wealthy liberals benefitting from illegal immigration. Lots of business owners don't want their cheap labor taken away. Both Democrats and Republicans. They don't want to have to pay their employees more. They don't want to have to offer health insurance. If taxpayers are covering the costs (i.e. free health insurance for illegal immigrants in CA), then employers save money and make a profit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?

So back to OP, your logic is that Madoff family should have kept the money he embezzled?

Kids did not commit the crime, they should keep the billions.

Solid plan.

This is an inappropriate comparison.

Can you clarify? How is that inappropriate?

In both cases, the parent is breaking the law. In one case, you feel the kids shouldn't be rewarded. In the other, you feel the kids should be rewarded.

DP. In both cases I feel like the children should not be punished for the sins of the parents. Not being a millionaire isn't a punishment. Being dropped off in the middle of a country where you know no one and don't speak the language can be a literal death sentence.

Oh the drama. As others have pointed out, most of them do speak the language, or enough to easily learn it. And many of the countries are not as violent or dangerous as they make them out to be. In fact, their countries would benefit from an influx of American-educated young people. We would be doing those countries a service to send them back, in addition to ourselves.

This is simply not true. Would you be cool being dropped off in Belarus tomorrow?

It is a crap analogy anyway because it doesn't really accurately get to the heart of the matter. A better analogy would be, what do you do with the children of someone who robbed a bank 30 years ago and acquired generational wealth as a result of that original crime. Their education childhood were funded by that crime. Do you bankrupt them as adults for reaping the benefits of that crime?

The answer is no. Courts would strip the parents of wealth, but they would not ruin those kids' lives. Even though they were clearly given a huge leg up in life because they benefited from the fruits of that crime. But they themselves have done nothing wrong, the benefited in ignorance. Their own assets were not acquired by any illegal actions of their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am only on page 1 so I am sorry if it has been said already.
But while I understand the human appeal, does anyone realize that any step towards legalization of those who entered illegally will open the floodgates?

Wow no no one has brought that up before. What an amazing original thought and not at all the main talking point of every conservative opinion piece on the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?

So back to OP, your logic is that Madoff family should have kept the money he embezzled?

Kids did not commit the crime, they should keep the billions.

Solid plan.

This is an inappropriate comparison.

Can you clarify? How is that inappropriate?

In both cases, the parent is breaking the law. In one case, you feel the kids shouldn't be rewarded. In the other, you feel the kids should be rewarded.

DP. In both cases I feel like the children should not be punished for the sins of the parents. Not being a millionaire isn't a punishment. Being dropped off in the middle of a country where you know no one and don't speak the language can be a literal death sentence.

Oh the drama. As others have pointed out, most of them do speak the language, or enough to easily learn it. And many of the countries are not as violent or dangerous as they make them out to be. In fact, their countries would benefit from an influx of American-educated young people. We would be doing those countries a service to send them back, in addition to ourselves.

This is simply not true. Would you be cool being dropped off in Belarus tomorrow?

It is a crap analogy anyway because it doesn't really accurately get to the heart of the matter. A better analogy would be, what do you do with the children of someone who robbed a bank 30 years ago and acquired generational wealth as a result of that original crime. Their education childhood were funded by that crime. Do you bankrupt them as adults for reaping the benefits of that crime?

The answer is no. Courts would strip the parents of wealth, but they would not ruin those kids' lives. Even though they were clearly given a huge leg up in life because they benefited from the fruits of that crime. But they themselves have done nothing wrong, the benefited in ignorance. Their own assets were not acquired by any illegal actions of their own.

Oh boy. Talk about a crap analogy. And what’s wrong with Belarus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am only on page 1 so I am sorry if it has been said already.
But while I understand the human appeal, does anyone realize that any step towards legalization of those who entered illegally will open the floodgates?

Wow no no one has brought that up before. What an amazing original thought and not at all the main talking point of every conservative opinion piece on the issue.

Honestly I don’t read conservative sources. I sort of follow the mainstream narrative (which seems to be sob stories mostly, not any sort of analysis of immigration law and field).
As to PPs saying that many ppl either benefit or just don’t understand.
As an immigrant, I have come to View most Americans as very kind hearted and trusting. It is less so now than it was 20 years ago - probably because more ppl have been exposed to representatives of low trust cultures...anyway, it is sad to see how people are being taken advantage of. By legal immigrants also.
But it is shocking to see how many ppl don’t realize the basics of certain behaviors being rewarded.... it’s not a secret that once dreamers see support of DACA, they start demanding the path to citizenship for their parents as well.
Don’t you guys hear it? Don’t you see what is going on? You don’t need to be a “conservative” to see it; just some common sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This does seem overly complicated to me. If my parents stood money from a bank or embezzled a bunch of money and gave it me I do not get to keep it; or do I?

I just do not see what the big deal is to have the kids go through the normal immigration process, or am I missing some other part of this debate?

Better analogy:
Let's say your parents embezzled a bunch of money, and with it they fed you and housed you and educated you as a child. If the parents get arrested, do you have to repay the bank for your food as a child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?

So back to OP, your logic is that Madoff family should have kept the money he embezzled?

Kids did not commit the crime, they should keep the billions.

Solid plan.

This is an inappropriate comparison.

Can you clarify? How is that inappropriate?

In both cases, the parent is breaking the law. In one case, you feel the kids shouldn't be rewarded. In the other, you feel the kids should be rewarded.

DP. In both cases I feel like the children should not be punished for the sins of the parents. Not being a millionaire isn't a punishment. Being dropped off in the middle of a country where you know no one and don't speak the language can be a literal death sentence.

Oh the drama. As others have pointed out, most of them do speak the language, or enough to easily learn it. And many of the countries are not as violent or dangerous as they make them out to be. In fact, their countries would benefit from an influx of American-educated young people. We would be doing those countries a service to send them back, in addition to ourselves.

This is simply not true. Would you be cool being dropped off in Belarus tomorrow?

It is a crap analogy anyway because it doesn't really accurately get to the heart of the matter. A better analogy would be, what do you do with the children of someone who robbed a bank 30 years ago and acquired generational wealth as a result of that original crime. Their education childhood were funded by that crime. Do you bankrupt them as adults for reaping the benefits of that crime?

The answer is no. Courts would strip the parents of wealth, but they would not ruin those kids' lives. Even though they were clearly given a huge leg up in life because they benefited from the fruits of that crime. But they themselves have done nothing wrong, the benefited in ignorance. Their own assets were not acquired by any illegal actions of their own.

Oh boy. Talk about a crap analogy. And what’s wrong with Belarus?

There's nothing wrong with Belarus. Except I don't live there and don't speak the language and if dumped off there tomorrow night I would probably end up homeless.

What is wrong with my analogy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is they could get deported back to a country they don’t know or have any connection to. This gives them safety. What’s your problem with that?

So back to OP, your logic is that Madoff family should have kept the money he embezzled?

Kids did not commit the crime, they should keep the billions.

Solid plan.

This is an inappropriate comparison.

Can you clarify? How is that inappropriate?

In both cases, the parent is breaking the law. In one case, you feel the kids shouldn't be rewarded. In the other, you feel the kids should be rewarded.

DP. In both cases I feel like the children should not be punished for the sins of the parents. Not being a millionaire isn't a punishment. Being dropped off in the middle of a country where you know no one and don't speak the language can be a literal death sentence.

Oh the drama. As others have pointed out, most of them do speak the language, or enough to easily learn it. And many of the countries are not as violent or dangerous as they make them out to be. In fact, their countries would benefit from an influx of American-educated young people. We would be doing those countries a service to send them back, in addition to ourselves.

This is simply not true. Would you be cool being dropped off in Belarus tomorrow?

It is a crap analogy anyway because it doesn't really accurately get to the heart of the matter. A better analogy would be, what do you do with the children of someone who robbed a bank 30 years ago and acquired generational wealth as a result of that original crime. Their education childhood were funded by that crime. Do you bankrupt them as adults for reaping the benefits of that crime?

The answer is no. Courts would strip the parents of wealth, but they would not ruin those kids' lives. Even though they were clearly given a huge leg up in life because they benefited from the fruits of that crime. But they themselves have done nothing wrong, the benefited in ignorance. Their own assets were not acquired by any illegal actions of their own.

Oh boy. Talk about a crap analogy. And what’s wrong with Belarus?

There's nothing wrong with Belarus. Except I don't live there and don't speak the language and if dumped off there tomorrow night I would probably end up homeless.

What is wrong with my analogy?

In your analogy, the children did not commit a crime. In reality, Dreamers broke the law as children by coming here. And that violation of law continued as adults when they remained here unlawfully, with many seeking to work illegally, etc. Without DACA, they would still be breaking the law. And the consequence of that is removal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am only on page 1 so I am sorry if it has been said already.
But while I understand the human appeal, does anyone realize that any step towards legalization of those who entered illegally will open the floodgates?

I'm okay with legal status to DACA recepients if we secure the border first, but not before.

I am *COMPLETELLY* sympathetic to the fact that may DACA recipients are probably more "American" in terms of cultural attachment than me, as an immigrant who came to the US at 11. However, I am also *COMPLETELY* against any type of amensty type program that is insitutted prior to instituting effective measures to combat illegal immigration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am only on page 1 so I am sorry if it has been said already.
But while I understand the human appeal, does anyone realize that any step towards legalization of those who entered illegally will open the floodgates?

I'm okay with legal status to DACA recepients if we secure the border first, but not before.

I am *COMPLETELLY* sympathetic to the fact that may DACA recipients are probably more "American" in terms of cultural attachment than me, as an immigrant who came to the US at 11. However, I am also *COMPLETELY* against any type of amensty type program that is insitutted prior to instituting effective measures to combat illegal immigration.

I don’t see how it can be done, without running into issues of human rights violation.
It would be easy if police could check for IDs, e-verify mandatory, no benefits in any states without proof of legal status. Yet this won’t fly. Oh and birthright citizenship.
But no politician is suicidal enough to implement any of it. Let alone its against the laws...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am only on page 1 so I am sorry if it has been said already.
But while I understand the human appeal, does anyone realize that any step towards legalization of those who entered illegally will open the floodgates?

I'm okay with legal status to DACA recepients if we secure the border first, but not before.

I am *COMPLETELLY* sympathetic to the fact that may DACA recipients are probably more "American" in terms of cultural attachment than me, as an immigrant who came to the US at 11. However, I am also *COMPLETELY* against any type of amensty type program that is insitutted prior to instituting effective measures to combat illegal immigration.

I don’t see how it can be done, without running into issues of human rights violation.
It would be easy if police could check for IDs, e-verify mandatory, no benefits in any states without proof of legal status. Yet this won’t fly. Oh and birthright citizenship.
But no politician is suicidal enough to implement any of it. Let alone its against the laws...

How what can be done? Secure our borders? Build the wall. Physical barrier is not 100% effective, but it will be effective enough.