Protest Hogan's diversion of public funds from public schools into private schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you don't go along with vouchers.. Upper middle class people are going to move out of your district to places that do. You cannot avoid competition and responsible people are going to immediately do what is good for their children. The public schools are going to be repositories for completely irresponsible and dysfunctional families.

Actually, it's the reverse. Places that have gone in for vouchers for private schools are places with public school systems that middle-class people already moved out of. Places where middle-class parents have a stake in the public school system don't have vouchers for private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

While I agree that the parental responsibility must be there, class sizes of 15 is still idea. I've had inclusion classes of over 30 kids, with about half with IEPs. It was reprehensible. Nothing was accomplished, and everyone just turned a blind eye despite the complaints from staff members in the same boat.

I'm not sure if your children have ever been in a "regular" setting. But private schools (I'm a product, and one child started off in a parochial.) can determine who stays and who goes. So the kids either learn to behave or they're out. This isn't the case in public, especially with the non-existent disciplinary measures. So yes, 30 kids in private may be fine, but I'll take 15 difficult kids in a public setting over 30 any old day. Furthermore, privates are excluded from the mounds of paperwork, ridiculous meetings and state testing. A teacher has the time to plan.

To be fair, PP, I don't think you can speak to the "masses" with a private school child and a magnet student. Magnets take the cream of the crop. Behaviors are not usually an issue.

No? As I've said before, the elementary magnet program is the Center Program for the Highly Gifted, not the Center Program for the Highly Well-Behaved.

Honey, and I write this as respectfully as possible, unless you're in the system, as I am, you have no right to chime in. Magnet kids are MUCH easier to handle than some gang members who are only in school to recruit members.

Sweetie, I'm in the system too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don't go along with vouchers.. Upper middle class people are going to move out of your district to places that do. You cannot avoid competition and responsible people are going to immediately do what is good for their children. The public schools are going to be repositories for completely irresponsible and dysfunctional families.

Actually, it's the reverse. Places that have gone in for vouchers for private schools are places with public school systems that middle-class people already moved out of. Places where middle-class parents have a stake in the public school system don't have vouchers for private schools.

That makes sense but the dynamic is different now. The vouchers will be there for everybody and everybody wants the choice of leaving if it suits your child for a whole ton of reasons.

[Anonymous]

In related news..

New York scraps teacher literacy tests in honor if diversity.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/12/new-york-to-scrap-literacy-test-for-teachers-in-the-name-of-diversity/#ixzz4b9KPZRRU

[Anonymous]

Please stop blaming children with disabilities for failing schools. Children with every type of disabilities (from blindness, cerebral palsy, ADHD, autism, etc...) represent only 13% of all public school children nationwide. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cgg.asp

And, not all of those 13% are even in mainstrem classrooms. So, while many of you continuously look for a scary "other" to pin the blame on (like disabled children, minorities and immigrants), a solution continues to elude us all.

But there have been studies showing what works: desegregation, experienced teachers, parental involvement... and yes, money. There is waste as well, like those awful Promethean boards!

And yes, it is a federal law that children with disabilities have to be educated in the United States of America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe in the freedom of school choice.
Why don't you, op?

You believe that the rich and middle class should be paid by the state to attend private schools. What about the poor and impoverished? What is someone going to do with a damn voucher when they don't even have enough money to keep their electricity on? Those are the ones who will suffer irreversible harm by this plan. You don't know anyone like that which is why you don't see a problem with the legislation. Do you even know about the achievement gap? Do you know what that is?

The rich and middle class will not receive vouchers. They go to lower middle class families and those who are impoverished. Check out DC Opportunity Fund. This program, in our own backyard, is a success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe in the freedom of school choice.
Why don't you, op?

You believe that the rich and middle class should be paid by the state to attend private schools. What about the poor and impoverished? What is someone going to do with a damn voucher when they don't even have enough money to keep their electricity on? Those are the ones who will suffer irreversible harm by this plan. You don't know anyone like that which is why you don't see a problem with the legislation. Do you even know about the achievement gap? Do you know what that is?

Do you seriously believe that the poor and low income families in MoCo are getting a quality education? There are some fantastic teachers doing the best they can, but these kids are still not reaping the 'benefits of public education'.

Why do you think the acheievement gap persists despite all of MoCo's efforts?? Obviously the current system is NOT working for poor families. Maybe it's time to try something different.

Yes, there is already a gap but this plan does nothing but greatly widen it. Is every single child going to go to private school? There will always be kids in public schools, and under this plan it will be the very poorest families. This plan reduces their funding even more so now the worst performing schools have been segregated by SES and stripped down to nothing. It is implemented and supported by people who don't know a single person who lives in poverty.

What are you referring to re "this plan." $5M is a tiny drop in the many Billions spent on education in the state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don't go along with vouchers.. Upper middle class people are going to move out of your district to places that do. You cannot avoid competition and responsible people are going to immediately do what is good for their children. The public schools are going to be repositories for completely irresponsible and dysfunctional families.

Actually, it's the reverse. Places that have gone in for vouchers for private schools are places with public school systems that middle-class people already moved out of. Places where middle-class parents have a stake in the public school system don't have vouchers for private schools.

That makes sense but the dynamic is different now. The vouchers will be there for everybody and everybody wants the choice of leaving if it suits your child for a whole ton of reasons.

What do you mean, the dynamic is different now? Now is what we're talking about.

And sure, everybody would love the option of sending their child to private school at public expense. Who doesn't like to get something for nothing? The question is, is that a good use of public dollars? And the answer is, no.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This poster sounds like a broken record with the "try something different " mantra.

How about we close all schools. Then there will be no achievement gap because there will be no testing. That is different.

But people with critical thinking skills can reason out that just because something is different doesn't make it better.

People with critical thinking skills can also realize that we have been doing it this way for a long time and public schools are not providing what poor kids need. We can also recognize that we have been throwing money at the public education system in this county but are still not seeing a closing of the achievement gap.

There have been multiple studies that show voucher programs make outcomes WORSE, not better. Even from right-leaning sources. There may need to be some changes in how we deal with low-income and high-needs students, but we know vouchers are counterproductive and kids perform worse.

E.g. this http://seii.mit.edu/research/study/school-vouchers-and-student-achievement-first-year-evidence-from-the-louisiana-scholarship-program/

These studies are questionable. First, if you limit Boost funds to be applied to schools charging only $14k as Boost does, you are self-selecting schools that are not well-funded. Contrast that to DC's Opportunity Scholarship, which grants modest sums for kids to study at most privates in DC - including those with tuition above $30k or $40k. Second, privates don't teach to the test - they don't prep kids for standardized tests for days on end, as my kids' public school did. There are studies that show black males from voucher-funded privates in NYC are more likely to attend college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe in the freedom of school choice.
Why don't you, op?

It's only freedom of choice for some. But, while Trump is busy attempting to weaken the independent media, by all means, he should go ahead and weaken public education. Both are essential to democracy.

Public education is already weak, IMO.

We spend tons of money on education in this country and it gets wasted on stupid shit like Chromebooks in 2nd grade so kids can learn how to message each other, Promethean boards that don't work properly some of the time, additional testing year after year for no good reason.

What are you so afraid of? Try something different.

This.

MCPS is more focused on perception than education. I was at an early meeting where MCPS was talking about installing Promethean boards in the schools. I think it was the 2008-09 year, a time when the country was facing economic difficulties. I know it seemed prudent to use caution before adding a large budget item. I asked them what function the Promethean boards could perform that couldn't already be done with the technology they already had. After thinking a while, they finally said that it could be used to annotate videos as they were watched. I'm sure the Promethean boards are nifty, but I'm not sure how frequently teachers need to annotate videos.

I have seen MCPS pour money into things that have little to no effect on education. Further, MCPS has poured money into reducing the gap for many years, and it hasn't seemed to reduce the gap. I remember Jerry Weast having red and green zones. I don't know how many superintendents before him tried to close the gap. The people of Montgomery County are not only willing to fund our school system at a high level, but to support allocating higher funding to lower performing schools. If giving money to MCPS was the answer to helping struggling students, I think they'd be in much better shape.

Frankly, despite it's claims to being one of the best school systems in the country, I think it's a mediocre one at best whose performance is masked by a highly educated population who makes up for its shortfalls either through parents supplementing at home or hiring professional tutoring services. Seems to me a lot of our public school students are going to private "schools" like Sylvan and Kumon.

If we had charter schools, vouchers to private schools might be less of an issue. However, MCPS has fought charter schools for years leaving us with the choice of MCPS or private.

I believe fiercely in the importance of public education. I think every child deserves a good education. However, if they aren't getting it from MCPS, maybe we should look for other options that will offer them that opportunity.

Well put.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This.

MCPS is more focused on perception than education. I was at an early meeting where MCPS was talking about installing Promethean boards in the schools. I think it was the 2008-09 year, a time when the country was facing economic difficulties. I know it seemed prudent to use caution before adding a large budget item. I asked them what function the Promethean boards could perform that couldn't already be done with the technology they already had. After thinking a while, they finally said that it could be used to annotate videos as they were watched. I'm sure the Promethean boards are nifty, but I'm not sure how frequently teachers need to annotate videos.

I have seen MCPS pour money into things that have little to no effect on education. Further, MCPS has poured money into reducing the gap for many years, and it hasn't seemed to reduce the gap. I remember Jerry Weast having red and green zones. I don't know how many superintendents before him tried to close the gap. The people of Montgomery County are not only willing to fund our school system at a high level, but to support allocating higher funding to lower performing schools. If giving money to MCPS was the answer to helping struggling students, I think they'd be in much better shape.

Frankly, despite it's claims to being one of the best school systems in the country, I think it's a mediocre one at best whose performance is masked by a highly educated population who makes up for its shortfalls either through parents supplementing at home or hiring professional tutoring services. Seems to me a lot of our public school students are going to private "schools" like Sylvan and Kumon.

If we had charter schools, vouchers to private schools might be less of an issue. However, MCPS has fought charter schools for years leaving us with the choice of MCPS or private.

I believe fiercely in the importance of public education. I think every child deserves a good education. However, if they aren't getting it from MCPS, maybe we should look for other options that will offer them that opportunity.

I don't agree with "change for change's sake." MCPS, however imperfect, has to offer a fair and equal education to all of those who want it, at a zero $ cost and is held accountable for its students meeting or not meeting those standards. Private schools do not. When they agree to meeting transparent standards and take all students who want to attend, then maybe, I would consider having some of my tax $ go to them. If not, don't ask me to subsidize private school choices for parents who want specialized options for their kids.

Generally these programs are for kids whose needs are not being met in public. Would you rather pay the societal costs later or invest now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Generally these programs are for kids whose needs are not being met in public. Would you rather pay the societal costs later or invest now?

Generally? We are not talking here about public school systems paying private schools for students with disabilities, for whom the public school system is unable to provide a free and appropriate education. We are talking about vouchers for parents to use public money to pay private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

These studies are questionable. First, if you limit Boost funds to be applied to schools charging only $14k as Boost does, you are self-selecting schools that are not well-funded. Contrast that to DC's Opportunity Scholarship, which grants modest sums for kids to study at most privates in DC - including those with tuition above $30k or $40k. Second, privates don't teach to the test - they don't prep kids for standardized tests for days on end, as my kids' public school did. There are studies that show black males from voucher-funded privates in NYC are more likely to attend college.

Post a link to that study, please?

And then please explain why that one study is good, while three consecutive reports, each studying one of the largest new state voucher programs, each finding that vouchers hurt student learning, are bad.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/upshot/dismal-results-from-vouchers-surprise-researchers-as-devos-era-begins.html?_r=0

(And honestly, I'm just not interested in the "it's because privates don't teach to the test, whereas public schools do nothing but test prep" excuse.)

[Anonymous]

If this is Hogan's idea of helping Maryland, I'd like to make a contribution to whomever is running against Hogan.

[Anonymous]

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Also the county does dumb things like build Rocky Hill MS and then 7-8 years later rebuilds and it and turns it into a HS and then rebuilds Rocky Hill HS in another location...total waste of tax payer money.

Agree. They have done this in our district too. No one thinks long term. So many other counties and schools add an entire level that is built out but not finished. So much cheaper for growing districts in the long run. Not MCPS. They have to continue to build massive additions eating up more land and fields from the school.

They waste so much money.

Let's look at the timeline.

1994 - Clarksburg master plan adopted
1995 - new Rocky Hill MS opens
2000 - Clarksburg development starts
2004 - new building opens for Rocky Hill MS (capacity 986 students) next door
2006 - new Clarksburg HS built at site of former Rocky Hill MS
2015 - addition built for Clarksburg HS (capacity now 2,025)
2016 - new Hallie Wells MS opens

I'm not seeing the waste or lack of long-term thinking here.

Your joking...building a school and tearing it down within 10 years isn't a waste of money?

What would you have done instead, in the early 1990s, knowing only what people in the early 1990s knew about the future?

They built in 2004 by then they definitely knew what was going to happen. They should have built Clarksburg on the new site or planned for the expansion...It was such a waste.

Be careful. They make the same arguments now. Families don't live in apartments! Developers don't need to fund schools! Millennials won't have many kids!