pledge of allegiance in schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But aren't all of you anti-pledge folks glad you live in a country where its optional for you and your child to say the pledge? How far are you willing to go do defend your freedom?

First question: yes. Second question: what does that have to do with saying the pledge?

What if reciting the pledge was mandatory?
What if you were subject to arrest or worse for refusing?
How far would you go to defend your right to not pledge allegiance to your country?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing (doing the pledge every morning in school) seems kind of fascist.

+1

[Anonymous]

OP here. I hadn't thought about this issue as it relates to children who are multinational -- funny that I never thought of it, since my kids are half american, and half their dad's country of origin. They also own two passports.
It does seem strange to do the pledge simply because it's something that's always been done. And kids reciting it as early as preschool, before they understand or know what it means...creepy, as others have said.

Now I am leaning toward casually asking my DC's new teacher about why they say the pledge, and whether they've ever considered removing that part of the morning routine. However, I am afraid of being labeled "that mom."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But aren't all of you anti-pledge folks glad you live in a country where its optional for you and your child to say the pledge? How far are you willing to go do defend your freedom?

First question: yes. Second question: what does that have to do with saying the pledge?

What if reciting the pledge was mandatory?
What if you were subject to arrest or worse for refusing?
How far would you go to defend your right to not pledge allegiance to your country?

I really don't know. It would depend on a number of factors. Why do you ask?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But none of you have a problem spending or making money that says In God we trust...........

A lot of us do, actually. But we don't have a choice.

You do, you just are too much of a coward to go move someplace else and stand up for what you believe in. Go live in Kenya, they don't have that on their money.

Meh. I don't like it, but I don't care enough to move to Kenya. I put it on the stack of Sh!t To Worry About When I Have The Time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But aren't all of you anti-pledge folks glad you live in a country where its optional for you and your child to say the pledge? How far are you willing to go do defend your freedom?

First question: yes. Second question: what does that have to do with saying the pledge?

What if reciting the pledge was mandatory?
What if you were subject to arrest or worse for refusing?
How far would you go to defend your right to not pledge allegiance to your country?

Who are you, Dwight Shrute?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing (doing the pledge every morning in school) seems kind of fascist.

Agreed. My great Aunt grew up in Nazi Germany. She also said a pledge to the flag every morning.

--Yep. Former East German. Usually only Fascists, Communists, and apparently Americans...

Yes - I think Spaniards may have had something similar, under Franco. Cara al Sol, and all that.

~shudder~

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My problem with it is that our child is multinational (has 4 passports) and I agree a minor cannot pledge allegiance and certainly shouldn't in our case as it isn't the truth.

The god part is the icing on the cake for being annoying (I'm from atheist socialist/communist countries so the historical addition is offensive to me).

I'm saying nothing because I don't want to my child associated with my crazy opinions but our child will learn at home what it all means.

That is truly and utterly obnoxious. But somehow, I suspect you think it's cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My problem with it is that our child is multinational (has 4 passports) and I agree a minor cannot pledge allegiance and certainly shouldn't in our case as it isn't the truth.

The god part is the icing on the cake for being annoying (I'm from atheist socialist/communist countries so the historical addition is offensive to me).

I'm saying nothing because I don't want to my child associated with my crazy opinions but our child will learn at home what it all means.

That is truly and utterly obnoxious. But somehow, I suspect you think it's cool.

Why on earth would that be obnoxious?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My problem with it is that our child is multinational (has 4 passports) and I agree a minor cannot pledge allegiance and certainly shouldn't in our case as it isn't the truth.

The god part is the icing on the cake for being annoying (I'm from atheist socialist/communist countries so the historical addition is offensive to me).

I'm saying nothing because I don't want to my child associated with my crazy opinions but our child will learn at home what it all means.

That is truly and utterly obnoxious. But somehow, I suspect you think it's cool.

You are solidly not from DC, eh? This is not hugely uncommon here, and reflective of being multi-cultural, rather than being "cool." Which is how I suspect the PP views it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But aren't all of you anti-pledge folks glad you live in a country where its optional for you and your child to say the pledge? How far are you willing to go do defend your freedom?

First question: yes. Second question: what does that have to do with saying the pledge?

What if reciting the pledge was mandatory?
What if you were subject to arrest or worse for refusing?
How far would you go to defend your right to not pledge allegiance to your country?

I'm not the PP, but I will attempt to answer your questions:

1: It is not mandatory. Please see WV State Board of Education v Barnette. Those who brought the suit were not atheists. They were Jehovah's Witnesses
2: Please see #1
3: Please see the First Amendment

The right to free exercise of religion should not need to be defended in the this country. I don't understand why some of you are making such a big deal about someone else saying it just like you do. We're not telling you to abstain or recite exactly as we do. You are free to make that decision. See how that works? I make the decision on what comes out of my mouth and you make the decision on what comes out of your mouth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What if reciting the pledge was mandatory?
What if you were subject to arrest or worse for refusing?
How far would you go to defend your right to not pledge allegiance to your country?

Stalins russia.
Prisons will have kids who could not recite because of a throat infection, 4 year olds that stutter and have lisp

Or maybe something like the salem witch trials
Or the internment camps for "quiet" americans, or americans with teenagers, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My problem with it is that our child is multinational (has 4 passports) and I agree a minor cannot pledge allegiance and certainly shouldn't in our case as it isn't the truth.

The god part is the icing on the cake for being annoying (I'm from atheist socialist/communist countries so the historical addition is offensive to me).

I'm saying nothing because I don't want to my child associated with my crazy opinions but our child will learn at home what it all means.

That is truly and utterly obnoxious. But somehow, I suspect you think it's cool.

Why on earth would that be obnoxious?

Yes, why is that obnoxious? It's great for the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is saying the pledge optional?
It is not like those who do not say it can be in another room doing some other activity. If you do not say it everyone knows and that reflects badly on you. There are social consequences and teachers attitudes and so on

I've never experienced any negative consequences as a result of not saying the pledge, and I stopped saying it in elementary school. Of course, I suppose it depends on your environment. I prefer to avoid environments where not saying the pledge is assumed to reflect badly on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is saying the pledge optional?
It is not like those who do not say it can be in another room doing some other activity. If you do not say it everyone knows and that reflects badly on you. There are social consequences and teachers attitudes and so on

I've never experienced any negative consequences as a result of not saying the pledge, and I stopped saying it in elementary school. Of course, I suppose it depends on your environment. I prefer to avoid environments where not saying the pledge is assumed to reflect badly on you.

I tried not saying the Pledge once -- I was in 3rd grade. The teacher stopped the class in the middle of the pledge and asked me what I was doing. She just stood there, glaring at me, until I said sorry, and started saying the pledge. I never tried not saying it again.