WHY does the Catholic Church make things so damn difficult?

[Anonymous]

trollol wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When we got married, it was one thing after the other. Now we have a newborn and I'm trying to have her baptized. THey make this whole process SO. UNBELIEVABLY. DIFFICULT. I am really on the verge of just saying screw it. I don't understand why they are doing this? Shouldn't they want to encourage young adults to remain active in the Church/introduce the next generation to Catholicism? If that's their intent, they are seriously going about it the WRONG way.

Why baptize near time of birth? It would mean a lot more to your child if they made the choice to be baptized later in life, understanding full well the consequences.

Catholicism does not subscribe to "decision theology," as e.g. Baptists do. Baptism is a sacrament, conferred by God - a gift. God chooses us, not the other way around. Not a decision by the individual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_theology

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/infant-baptism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When we got married, it was one thing after the other. Now we have a newborn and I'm trying to have her baptized. THey make this whole process SO. UNBELIEVABLY. DIFFICULT. I am really on the verge of just saying screw it. I don't understand why they are doing this? Shouldn't they want to encourage young adults to remain active in the Church/introduce the next generation to Catholicism? If that's their intent, they are seriously going about it the WRONG way.

You know what else is SO. UNBELIEVABLY. DIFFICULT? Being forced to carry a wooden cross to your intended place of death, having thorns placed on your head in a crown to mock you, being naked and nailed to a cross in the hot sun to slowly die while your mother watches.

He made the ultimate sacrifice for you, for your child, to be cleansed of original sin (ie baptism) and you are upset about paperwork.

Perhaps you want to rethink your reasoning for wanting your child baptized.

You're probably going to get flak for this post, but I just wanted to tell you that I, at least, appreciated it.

Me, too.

Thank you!

Add me too! Thank you! Excellent post, in my estimation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Are you Catholic? There are readings from both the Old and New Testament. These readings are done in a three year cyccle so throughout those three years, you hear 90% of the Bible -- again and again.

Not any more, but was for 28 years, attending mass every Sunday, and once a week with school through grade 12. Yes, we occasionally had some Old Testament readings, I was exaggerating somewhat, but the majority of readings were from the New Testament. We definitely didn't go through 90 percent of the bible. I can assue you that I have never heard most of Numbers, Tobit, Deutoronomy, Judges, Chronicles, Nehemiah, Lamentations, etc. read at our masses.

I always find it fascinating when people trot out their "Catholic creds" only to follow them by woeful ignorance about the Church. Perhaps you don't remember, or perhaps you didn't listen to what was being said, but you most assuredly were read two Old Testament readings at every single Mass, and did indeed hear scripture from every book you listed. Additionally, most of the prayers and responses themselves are pulled directly or indirectly from Scripture. Yes, it is a problem that Catholics sit through Mass Sunday after Sunday, often for decades, yet still leave without knowing what they have heard. It seems that for many Catholics it simply does not occur to them to follow up on what they might have heard during Mass, or investigate what it is that they are being exposed to. But whose fault is that? Yes, it is obviously presented very differently than many other Christian Churches, were parishioners are encouraged to memorize and recite bible verses - yet the exposure to scripture in Catholicism is far deeper and richer than in many other traditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not any more, but was for 28 years, attending mass every Sunday, and once a week with school through grade 12. Yes, we occasionally had some Old Testament readings, I was exaggerating somewhat, but the majority of readings were from the New Testament. We definitely didn't go through 90 percent of the bible. I can assue you that I have never heard most of Numbers, Tobit, Deutoronomy, Judges, Chronicles, Nehemiah, Lamentations, etc. read at our masses.

You're remembering incorrectly. Every Sunday mass has an Old Testament reading, with a few exceptions during certain times of the year like Easter.

Yep. Mass readings consist of the First Reading from the Old Testament, a verse from the Book of Psalms (also Old Testament), and the Second Reading which is from the New Testament.

You heard something from the Old Testament approximately fifty weeks out of the year.
I do agree, as I stated in an earlier post, that for the most part Catholics do not study the bible the way that other religious denominations do.

I agree with the earlier PP -- there were many books of the Old Testament that were either never mentioned or get very short shrift in the three year catholic liturgical cycle. If the only exposure you have to the Old Testament as a Catholic is through readings at church you would not get a good sense at all of what is in the Old Testament.

In CCD we did read some of the acts of the apostles, but nothing else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I always find it fascinating when people trot out their "Catholic creds" only to follow them by woeful ignorance about the Church. Perhaps you don't remember, or perhaps you didn't listen to what was being said, but you most assuredly were read two Old Testament readings at every single Mass, and did indeed hear scripture from every book you listed. Additionally, most of the prayers and responses themselves are pulled directly or indirectly from Scripture. Yes, it is a problem that Catholics sit through Mass Sunday after Sunday, often for decades, yet still leave without knowing what they have heard. It seems that for many Catholics it simply does not occur to them to follow up on what they might have heard during Mass, or investigate what it is that they are being exposed to. But whose fault is that? Yes, it is obviously presented very differently than many other Christian Churches, were parishioners are encouraged to memorize and recite bible verses - yet the exposure to scripture in Catholicism is far deeper and richer than in many other traditions.

When I attended Mass I heard many exhortations from the priest to do this and that, but certainly never heard him suggest that I take out a Bible and read it!

Say the rosary, yes. Attend Pro-life marches, yes. Attend Mass weekly and confession, yes. Never heard him tell me to read the Old Testament. EVER.

[Anonymous]

I have not read all the posts (10 odd pages) but I might observe that anyone who uses the word "damn" in a title about Catholics might like to find an alternate faith.

[Anonymous]

BTW -- statistics on how much of the Old and New Testament is read during a Catholic Mass:

http://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm

Prior to Vatican II it appears the Old Testament was NEVER read during Mass. This supports my comment that the Catholic faith does not have a long tradition of reading the Bible.

[Anonymous]

For PPs who still doubt the Church's devotion to Scripture: start attending daily mass. You will hear the entire Bible. Get the Magnificat. Never heard of it? Check it out. If you can't attend daily mass, it will keep you on task. Read the Catechism. Every single line has a biblical citation.

Look at it this way: the Catholic Church compiled the Bible. Who else could possibly care more about it?

[Anonymous]

You know what else is SO. UNBELIEVABLY. DIFFICULT? Being forced to carry a wooden cross to your intended place of death, having thorns placed on your head in a crown to mock you, being naked and nailed to a cross in the hot sun to slowly die while your mother watches.

He made the ultimate sacrifice for you, for your child, to be cleansed of original sin (ie baptism) and you are upset about paperwork.

Perhaps you want to rethink your reasoning for wanting your child baptized.

And yet, Jesus did NOT say, "Suffer the little children to come unto me so long as their paperwork is in order." In fact, I would speculate ---that Jesus would have a few withering things to say about the hoops being constantly moved for OP in her attempts to have her child baptized.

Signed, Protestant mom (married to Catholic DH) who is also tremendously annoyed by the excessive bureaucracy of the Church

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For PPs who still doubt the Church's devotion to Scripture: start attending daily mass. You will hear the entire Bible.

No. You will hear maybe 8% of the entire Bible though. The Catholic tradition is based upon Biblical Snippets. Highlights, Best-Ofs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You know what else is SO. UNBELIEVABLY. DIFFICULT? Being forced to carry a wooden cross to your intended place of death, having thorns placed on your head in a crown to mock you, being naked and nailed to a cross in the hot sun to slowly die while your mother watches.

He made the ultimate sacrifice for you, for your child, to be cleansed of original sin (ie baptism) and you are upset about paperwork.

Perhaps you want to rethink your reasoning for wanting your child baptized.

And yet, Jesus did NOT say, "Suffer the little children to come unto me so long as their paperwork is in order." In fact, I would speculate ---that Jesus would have a few withering things to say about the hoops being constantly moved for OP in her attempts to have her child baptized.

Signed, Protestant mom (married to Catholic DH) who is also tremendously annoyed by the excessive bureaucracy of the Church

+1000 I think Jesus would be comparing the current focus by Church leaders on enforcing orthodoxy (fidelity oaths, etc.) with the Pharisees. Remember them? The pharisees were highly focused on making sure people were following the rules. Jesus? Cared about love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For PPs who still doubt the Church's devotion to Scripture: start attending daily mass. You will hear the entire Bible.

No. You will hear maybe 8% of the entire Bible though. The Catholic tradition is based upon Biblical Snippets. Highlights, Best-Ofs.

PP again -- to that that's a bad thing -- the Bible is really boring! I'm just saying, reading the Bible through and through has never been a big focus of the Catholic church.

[Anonymous]

trollol wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When we got married, it was one thing after the other. Now we have a newborn and I'm trying to have her baptized. THey make this whole process SO. UNBELIEVABLY. DIFFICULT. I am really on the verge of just saying screw it. I don't understand why they are doing this? Shouldn't they want to encourage young adults to remain active in the Church/introduce the next generation to Catholicism? If that's their intent, they are seriously going about it the WRONG way.

Why baptize near time of birth? It would mean a lot more to your child if they made the choice to be baptized later in life, understanding full well the consequences.

In the Catholic faith this isn't really what Baptism is. No judgment, just fact. When a child matures he/she confirms their faith in Confirmation. Baptism deals with Original Sin, which we're all born with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Are you Catholic? There are readings from both the Old and New Testament. These readings are done in a three year cyccle so throughout those three years, you hear 90% of the Bible -- again and again.

Not any more, but was for 28 years, attending mass every Sunday, and once a week with school through grade 12. Yes, we occasionally had some Old Testament readings, I was exaggerating somewhat, but the majority of readings were from the New Testament. We definitely didn't go through 90 percent of the bible. I can assue you that I have never heard most of Numbers, Tobit, Deutoronomy, Judges, Chronicles, Nehemiah, Lamentations, etc. read at our masses.

I always find it fascinating when people trot out their "Catholic creds" only to follow them by woeful ignorance about the Church. Perhaps you don't remember, or perhaps you didn't listen to what was being said, but you most assuredly were read two Old Testament readings at every single Mass, and did indeed hear scripture from every book you listed. Additionally, most of the prayers and responses themselves are pulled directly or indirectly from Scripture. Yes, it is a problem that Catholics sit through Mass Sunday after Sunday, often for decades, yet still leave without knowing what they have heard. It seems that for many Catholics it simply does not occur to them to follow up on what they might have heard during Mass, or investigate what it is that they are being exposed to. But whose fault is that? Yes, it is obviously presented very differently than many other Christian Churches, were parishioners are encouraged to memorize and recite bible verses - yet the exposure to scripture in Catholicism is far deeper and richer than in many other traditions.

As a cradle Catholic who now worships in a Protestant church, with friends and family of various Protestant denominations, I must say I disagree with this. Catholicism has a beautiful liturgy, yes, but the exposure to scripture is not "deeper and richer" than it is in e.g. the Lutheran or Episcopalian churches. It's just not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For PPs who still doubt the Church's devotion to Scripture: start attending daily mass. You will hear the entire Bible. Get the Magnificat. Never heard of it? Check it out. If you can't attend daily mass, it will keep you on task. Read the Catechism. Every single line has a biblical citation.

Look at it this way: the Catholic Church compiled the Bible. Who else could possibly care more about it?

Not really. The Roman church compiled *its* Bible. The Eastern Orthodox church (equally old with equally old traditions) did the same, as did the Protestant churches.

Once again: The Roman church does not have a monopoly on Truth. It says it does, but that does not make it so.