Requirements for medical school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What bothers me is some of these “requirements” are a joke and don’t add value. Just made up stuff like we do to get into college. It shouldn’t be a requirement for medical school.

Shadowing? What exactly did the kid do? Mission trips? What did the kid actually learn. Sure they sound good but we know how these things really go down.

Shadowing: i have shadows. Some of them drop premed after shadowing. They hate blood and bodily functions. Best to establish that.
Mission trips in the context of med school apps are nothing like high school mission trips of the 00s. They encompass traveling with doctors (docs without borders or similar) learning and doing real 3rd world medical skills. These students come in more prepared than those who haven't. A kid who has done it is highly unlikely to be aiming for medicine for the $ or any other false reason.
Research, any science: evidence based medicine is the core of practice. Understanding how research is done is extremely important especially for anyone who wants to attend one of the T100 or so research-based MD schools.
Volunteering: domestic violence , food insecurity/homeless, nursing homes, addiction clinics: all part of the raw humanity of real medicine. You have to have evidence you can handle humans in their most desperate and unpleasant states.

Agree shadowing can give some better idea if this is what they really want to do...but do you really think it takes hundreds of shadowing hours to determine that?

Some of you have not even looked at AMCAS. The generally recommended range is 40-100 hours shadowing. That is 1-2.5 weeks. Accomplished easily over a winter break. Much above 100 does NOT ADD anything valuable to the application. Clinical hours are much more important after the 40-100 shadowing: EMT, CNA, phlebotomy, nursing home assistant.

[Anonymous]

CNA, MA and EMT courses can be from 4-12 weeks and cost > $1000. Just looked and phlebotomy is $2300 at MCCC

In the DMV, the classes fill up fast.

You might be able to do that over the summer, and is fine for a gap year, but it is quite a investment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Tech in a heartbeat. My kid is currently a junior and doing all of the things she needs to do to go to med school. My niece has multiple offers and will start med school in the fall.

I am in tech, I make 7 figures year in and year out. Given how smart both kids are I could have either of them making $500K by the time they are in their late 20's; it would not be a particularly difficult task.

I would certainly like to hear more about this path...I think a lot of parents would. Seems like there are different barriers in tech though not as regimented as medicine.

Tech is great. One of my kids is going in that direction with Engineering goal of R&D in a private lab one day or startup with friends which is common at their ivy. The other kid is premed and like your niece will have no trouble getting in as they are already top 20% at their ivy. The two kids could never swap and do each other's future job despite both being highly intelligent in STEM.
To the PP, no, "parents" should not be trying to learn about tech v MD and somehow persuade your kid toward whatever you see as best for them. The kid should decide. IF it is right for them they will get there, tech or MD or biglaw or some non-celebrated-by DCUM job.

[Anonymous]

I'm European and the admission into medicine school there is BRUTAL. Also the residency placement rate is around 50%. However, school is very cheap or free for those who have the best test scores and grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have 3 years of heavily focused undergrad followed by a year of a related medical experience (paid internship) and then med school.

And they need to let more kids into med school. We need more American-educated doctors.

Sigh. This was addressed above. It's not as simple as simply admitting more students. Could you pack more into the lecture halls? Sure (especially now that lots of students don't go to lecture, it's recorded and many watch it ... or plan to anyway ... later). But there simply are not enough rotation sites or residency sites.

This is not true. There are 6000 more residency spots than US MD/DO grads per year.

And American grads do not want those spots. You realize that not all programs/residencies are the same, right? That not all are created equal? And that rotation sites are not residency spots? I had an M4 complaining bitterly to me just last week about lack of rotation spots.

So to me there seems to be a gap here that I’m not understanding. We have a fairly low medical school acceptance rate, but we are importing doctors to do jobs Americans supposedly don’t want. Further, those foreign doctors are graduating from medical school with fewer years of training and less expensive training (undergrad and medical school is free in many countries), no shadowing, etc. This doesn’t make a ton of sense. Why don’t we admit more Americans on the basis that they will take those primary care jobs? Why don’t we make medical school more affordable so people can better understand the community they serve?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a retired US academic physician who worked at a top medical school, I have a few reflections:

At UVa 50 years ago, 500 future premeds huddled into the chemistry lecture hall to hear about the process of becoming a doctor. Over the next four years we studied hard and played hard. But many were lost along the way. At the time of my graduation in 1979, there were only about 50 (10%) students who were directly accepted into an allopathic medical school, mostly UVa or MCV. At that time the national acceptance rate was about 45%. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK217679/table/ttt00015/?report=objectonly.
At UVa, I don't know how many reapplied and subsequently accepted. The core requirement classes in biology, chemistry, physics, math, etc., were very challenging. It was very difficult to get an A, much less a B. Grade inflation, at least at UVa, was nonexistent, as it is today. Many had some type of clinical exposure or worked in labs, but it was difficult to find opportunities. Very few had research publications. Gap years were unheard off. For those who wern't directly accepted, some took additional courses or pursued a master's before reapplying. In the late 1970s there were only 3 offshore Caribbean medical schools. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_medical_school I don't know how many chose a DO route. Finally, relative to the present, with loans the financial burden of medical school was feasible for a middle class family.

Just a few comments on the current international medical graduate (IMG) situation. A few years ago I worked with foreign-trained medical students and doctors trying to get into a US residency. For those who had excellent grades, scores and letters, pleasant personalities, and spoke English, they were successful in matching into a residency. In the past couple of years, however, the IMG situation has dramatically changed due to politics. With the stringent VISA requirements, particularly with respect to the H1B, many residency programs are not accepting IMG applicants. This could make the physician shortage worse, particularly in primary care. Just take a look at the posts on this Reddit site for FMGs: https://www.reddit.com/r/IMGreddit/.

2025 Match Data
93.5% of U.S. MD seniors matched
92.6% of U.S. DO seniors matched
67.8% of U.S. citizen international medical graduates (IMGs) matched
58% of non-U.S. citizen IMGs matched,a
https://www.nrmp.org/about/news/2025/05/nrmp-releases-2025-main-residency-match-results-and-data-report-providing-in-depth-insight-into-the-largest-residency-match-in-history/#:~:text=Among%20all%20active%20U.S.%20DO,the%20Match%20and%20SOAP%20overall.

Your "reflections" on medical school admittance are about a half a century old. Not remotely applicable here.

That poster is someone who would know vastly, vastly more about what med schools are looking for in incoming students to than overbearing mom helicoptering their adult children’s professional school paths for bragging rights.

There is a lot of excellent advice on this thread from people with very recent experience with med school admissions who know a lot more than someone who is just a mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have 3 years of heavily focused undergrad followed by a year of a related medical experience (paid internship) and then med school.

And they need to let more kids into med school. We need more American-educated doctors.

Sigh. This was addressed above. It's not as simple as simply admitting more students. Could you pack more into the lecture halls? Sure (especially now that lots of students don't go to lecture, it's recorded and many watch it ... or plan to anyway ... later). But there simply are not enough rotation sites or residency sites.

This is not true. There are 6000 more residency spots than US MD/DO grads per year.

And American grads do not want those spots. You realize that not all programs/residencies are the same, right? That not all are created equal? And that rotation sites are not residency spots? I had an M4 complaining bitterly to me just last week about lack of rotation spots.

So to me there seems to be a gap here that I’m not understanding. We have a fairly low medical school acceptance rate, but we are importing doctors to do jobs Americans supposedly don’t want. Further, those foreign doctors are graduating from medical school with fewer years of training and less expensive training (undergrad and medical school is free in many countries), no shadowing, etc. This doesn’t make a ton of sense. Why don’t we admit more Americans on the basis that they will take those primary care jobs? Why don’t we make medical school more affordable so people can better understand the community they serve?

The foreign medical school grads are much, much more willing to take a residency spot at upstairs Alabama medical college or college East Possumtown community hospital And those places need both doctors and residents!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CNA, MA and EMT courses can be from 4-12 weeks and cost > $1000. Just looked and phlebotomy is $2300 at MCCC

In the DMV, the classes fill up fast.

You might be able to do that over the summer, and is fine for a gap year, but it is quite a investment.

You are making excuses. These premed reqs truly are not that difficult provided one has done the homework and is in a college that supports premeds.
Many undergrads have EMT or CNA or both as courses for credit (ie covered by semester tuition) or for a significant discount for non-nursing students, or as part of a club. I found two ivy/T10 with such options and three public schools, all with affiliated med schools, in about 20 seconds of googling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a retired US academic physician who worked at a top medical school, I have a few reflections:

At UVa 50 years ago, 500 future premeds huddled into the chemistry lecture hall to hear about the process of becoming a doctor. Over the next four years we studied hard and played hard. But many were lost along the way. At the time of my graduation in 1979, there were only about 50 (10%) students who were directly accepted into an allopathic medical school, mostly UVa or MCV. At that time the national acceptance rate was about 45%. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK217679/table/ttt00015/?report=objectonly.
At UVa, I don't know how many reapplied and subsequently accepted. The core requirement classes in biology, chemistry, physics, math, etc., were very challenging. It was very difficult to get an A, much less a B. Grade inflation, at least at UVa, was nonexistent, as it is today. Many had some type of clinical exposure or worked in labs, but it was difficult to find opportunities. Very few had research publications. Gap years were unheard off. For those who wern't directly accepted, some took additional courses or pursued a master's before reapplying. In the late 1970s there were only 3 offshore Caribbean medical schools. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_medical_school I don't know how many chose a DO route. Finally, relative to the present, with loans the financial burden of medical school was feasible for a middle class family.

Just a few comments on the current international medical graduate (IMG) situation. A few years ago I worked with foreign-trained medical students and doctors trying to get into a US residency. For those who had excellent grades, scores and letters, pleasant personalities, and spoke English, they were successful in matching into a residency. In the past couple of years, however, the IMG situation has dramatically changed due to politics. With the stringent VISA requirements, particularly with respect to the H1B, many residency programs are not accepting IMG applicants. This could make the physician shortage worse, particularly in primary care. Just take a look at the posts on this Reddit site for FMGs: https://www.reddit.com/r/IMGreddit/.

2025 Match Data
93.5% of U.S. MD seniors matched
92.6% of U.S. DO seniors matched
67.8% of U.S. citizen international medical graduates (IMGs) matched
58% of non-U.S. citizen IMGs matched,a
https://www.nrmp.org/about/news/2025/05/nrmp-releases-2025-main-residency-match-results-and-data-report-providing-in-depth-insight-into-the-largest-residency-match-in-history/#:~:text=Among%20all%20active%20U.S.%20DO,the%20Match%20and%20SOAP%20overall.

Your "reflections" on medical school admittance are about a half a century old. Not remotely applicable here.

That poster is someone who would know vastly, vastly more about what med schools are looking for in incoming students to than overbearing mom helicoptering their adult children’s professional school paths for bragging rights.

There is a lot of excellent advice on this thread from people with very recent experience with med school admissions who know a lot more than someone who is just a mom.

Yes, and one of them is the poster who has 50 years as an academic physician.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should have 3 years of heavily focused undergrad followed by a year of a related medical experience (paid internship) and then med school.

And they need to let more kids into med school. We need more American-educated doctors.

Sigh. This was addressed above. It's not as simple as simply admitting more students. Could you pack more into the lecture halls? Sure (especially now that lots of students don't go to lecture, it's recorded and many watch it ... or plan to anyway ... later). But there simply are not enough rotation sites or residency sites.

This is not true. There are 6000 more residency spots than US MD/DO grads per year.

And American grads do not want those spots. You realize that not all programs/residencies are the same, right? That not all are created equal? And that rotation sites are not residency spots? I had an M4 complaining bitterly to me just last week about lack of rotation spots.

So to me there seems to be a gap here that I’m not understanding. We have a fairly low medical school acceptance rate, but we are importing doctors to do jobs Americans supposedly don’t want. Further, those foreign doctors are graduating from medical school with fewer years of training and less expensive training (undergrad and medical school is free in many countries), no shadowing, etc. This doesn’t make a ton of sense. Why don’t we admit more Americans on the basis that they will take those primary care jobs? Why don’t we make medical school more affordable so people can better understand the community they serve?

Because they won't.

They will not take primary care jobs in BF Nowhere Town, Flyover State that do not pay enough to pay back their loans.

So yes -- you are not understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CNA, MA and EMT courses can be from 4-12 weeks and cost > $1000. Just looked and phlebotomy is $2300 at MCCC

In the DMV, the classes fill up fast.

You might be able to do that over the summer, and is fine for a gap year, but it is quite a investment.

They’re not full time for 4-12 weeks. Also, they result in actual skills that lead to paid work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kid is doing a BS/MD program. I highly recommend this route, it's a huge relief.

+1. This needs to be emphasized. Parents of HS students interested in medicine: Look for direct admit programs!

Those programs are traps, there's no plan B and the requirements are the same as applying for med school. Mine is in med school now with an engineering undergraduate, we wanted him to have options just in case he'd change his mind. You're fried with a biology major, no options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CNA, MA and EMT courses can be from 4-12 weeks and cost > $1000. Just looked and phlebotomy is $2300 at MCCC

In the DMV, the classes fill up fast.

You might be able to do that over the summer, and is fine for a gap year, but it is quite a investment.

You are making excuses. These premed reqs truly are not that difficult provided one has done the homework and is in a college that supports premeds.
Many undergrads have EMT or CNA or both as courses for credit (ie covered by semester tuition) or for a significant discount for non-nursing students, or as part of a club. I found two ivy/T10 with such options and three public schools, all with affiliated med schools, in about 20 seconds of googling.

I have a kid in medical school who did not take a gap year, who went to an Ivy.

I will say again that all of these requirements are hard and harder for kids who need to have jobs that make money over the summer.

Googling is not reality. The opportunities are not always available. Many kids have connections. It is hard for kids who do not. Not insurmountable, but challenging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CNA, MA and EMT courses can be from 4-12 weeks and cost > $1000. Just looked and phlebotomy is $2300 at MCCC

In the DMV, the classes fill up fast.

You might be able to do that over the summer, and is fine for a gap year, but it is quite a investment.

Many premeds were in summer community college EMT class. The college fees, NREMT fees, background check, drug test, books, cost about $2000

[Anonymous]

again-the acceptance rate is nearly 45%.

This is not the Herculean task that premed students (and sometimes their moms) contend it is.

Med school and residency are much, much harder than getting in so maybe pace yourself with the complaints. (And I agree, there is a lot to complain about.)