Alabama

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your daughter wants diversity but doesn't want to be around anyone who thinks differently than her. Better stick to Oberlin.

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Anonymous wrote:I just couldn’t in good conscience send my DD to Alabama. I’m sure the actual university is fine, but politically and socially I just couldn’t do it. They have a near total abortion ban; one of the strictest in the nation. They are also one of the most religious states in the nation, with 58% of the population attending church regularly. They also rank very high on poverty, low on public education and have very little racial diversity. Thankfully we can pay for college (and grad school.)

Wow. I just cannot imagine your mindset as a mother.

DP:

My own daughter refused to look at schools in the South. For the political and social reasons. They wanted diversity, more centrist mindset (or leaning liberal) and the ability for herself and her friends to have full access to any healthcare they should need.
So it's not just parents with this attitude. It's educated people who realize they don't want to live somewhere that people cannot access basic healthcare rights. They want to live in an area where people care about others and support basic human rights.

Fine being around others who think differently.

However, when that "thinking differently" means people don't have access to basic healthcare, then that is not acceptable. When "thinking differently" means you feel any person who is not a white Christian is a "lesser person" then nope, that is not acceptable and my kid doesn't want to be around a bigot like that, especially since they are half asian.
I believe the key here is my daughter wants to be around educated people who choose to think and actual care about others.
Not a worry, because there are plenty of places like that. Unfortunately, the healthcare issue makes several decent states a bit trickier now.

[Anonymous]

Your daughter wants diversity but doesn't want to be around anyone who thinks differently than her. Better stick to Oberlin.

DP here.

Viewing women as second class citizens is not “diversity.” There are no laws dictating what medical care men are able to receive in Alabama, or threatening to arrest doctors for doing what is best for them.

But yes, if I’m being honest, I don’t want her attending college with the children of people who think like you do.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just couldn’t in good conscience send my DD to Alabama. I’m sure the actual university is fine, but politically and socially I just couldn’t do it. They have a near total abortion ban; one of the strictest in the nation. They are also one of the most religious states in the nation, with 58% of the population attending church regularly. They also rank very high on poverty, low on public education and have very little racial diversity. Thankfully we can pay for college (and grad school.)

Wow. I just cannot imagine your mindset as a mother.

DP:

My own daughter refused to look at schools in the South. For the political and social reasons. They wanted diversity, more centrist mindset (or leaning liberal) and the ability for herself and her friends to have full access to any healthcare they should need.
So it's not just parents with this attitude. It's educated people who realize they don't want to live somewhere that people cannot access basic healthcare rights. They want to live in an area where people care about others and support basic human rights.

There are many people in the South who dedicate themselves to reproductive rights and trying to preserve voting rights as well.

The arrogance here is just unbelievable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just found out that our DCs stats would mean full tuition and admission to the honors program at U Alabama. I know some folks would look down on Alabama but free college is pretty appealing. (Can save the college funds for grad school) anyone have experience with Alabama.

My kid there is there on a full ride. By the end of this year kid will have studied abroad in 5 different countries...which the scholarship paid for (most of). Lots of very smart kids at Alabama. Great programs, extremely small classes in the upper levels (fewer than 20 students) taught by professors (not TAs). Plus some pretty impressive and difficult to get into programs like Randall Research Scholars. They also offer a very popular 5 year STEM + MBA degree. Can't beat a FREE top notch education. Roll tide.

Do NOT get an MBA at age 22 from Alabama. Very bad idea.

Taking the full ride for undergrad could be a great idea. Getting a Bama MBA is a bad idea for anyone who hopes to become a high flier.

Not true. Friend of my DD did BS, MS in engineering and MBA in four years on scholarship. He is being recruited all over the country by top firms. Has three job offers.

What's your definition of 'top firms'? I doubt it's equal to that of most high fliers. Top firms do not visit Bama as a target school.

More importantly, delaying an MBA is crucial for two main reasons:

1) students get more out of MBA curricula when they have real professional work experience, which is why even schools with early admissions programs like Wharton and Harvard require admitted undergrads to work (in a full time, professional capacity) for at least two years before matriculating, and

2) the MBA is a great for people who want to pivot. Engineers do an MBA after 2-3 years because they want to move into management roles. Investment bankers do an MBA because they want to jump to private equity. Marketers do an MBA to make them attractive to large, international firms that overlooked them coming out of undergrad. All MBA students want to broaden their networks.

22 year olds who go directly into an MBA program, at Bama or anywhere else, forego these major benefits of the MBA, making the benefits of the degree very limited and the opportunity cost high. So it's NEVER a good idea to go directly into an MBA program from undergrad.

Ignore this poster. As someone with an MBA from a top5 school I don’t necessarily agree. This person is assuming there is only one pathway to a single career that is worth pursuing. If you aren’t trying to go into top tier IB or Management Consulting there can be lots of reasons to do a STEM+MBA that make total sense.

The purpose of an MBA is generally for career pivots. Kids who do business school in undergrad generally don’t also do an MBA. In this case your kid is trying to set himself up for more career options right away. There is no reason for him to do a double major STEM/business as an undergrad if he can learn the same content but achieve a masters.

Previous poster here: sounds like you made my point. Very very few college seniors -- who, by definition, have never worked full time in a professional capacity -- have the insight to predict whether the career pathway they start off with will be a good fit personally, or provide sufficient opportunities for growth. Doing an MBA directly from undergrad cuts off the most viable way to return to school and pivot. Doesn't allow the kid to expand alumni network by adding a second university.

And you are wrong about kids who do a business undergrad not doing an MBA. Some don't, because they are already at top tier companies and are succeeding. Many, esp. those who are floundering, do add an MBA.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The poverty rate is higher in most major northern cities than Alabama. Yeah the state has problems, but so does the north. One problem they don't seem to have is providing affordable quality higher education. If you get into an Ivy, sure it opens doors. But most kids aren't getting into Harvard or Yale. I doubt graduating with massive debt from a NYU or GWU puts you in a better position than a degree from Alabama. Those are good schools, but unless you have endless money to burn, one needs to take a serious look at a place like Alabama. College is what you make of it, and it sure sounds like a high-achieving students can have a great experience there that will prepare them for the future without killing themself with loans. Florida used to have a similar reputation as Alabama and now its one of the top public universities in the nation.

I don't know the answer...but if you look at just salary data of Alabama on the WSJ ranking it's ranked 380 (it's even lower than Alabama Huntsville on this metric) vs. 90 for GW. NYU actually rates very low as well (310), so you are likely correct on that one.

Ga Tech as one example is #5...it would seem that it's almost a no brainer to even pay full freight for Ga Tech OOS (which is cheap for OOS at like $50k) vs. Alabama if you plan to go into the workforce after graduation, but Penn, CMU, Babson are all top 10 and would be worth the price as well as just some examples.

This might be true but if you look at the fact base it quickly becomes clear that is more to the story. I expect a good percentage of the Alabama kids to stay in Alabama where the cost of living is significantly lower than NY, DMV, Silicon Valley, etc. Alabama does have a great honors program but it also serves non-honors Alabama state students who are looking to move into local jobs. That is not remotely the same as CMU which is $90k/year and most of the kids are from wealthy already well connected families and all of them are pursing majors that are higher paying. Nobody is studying special education at CMU.

The cost of living argument doesn't hold water. There are plenty of schools like University of Missouri (200) or Iowa State (141) as just two examples, that again rank far higher on the salary metric and these schools have higher acceptance rates than even University of Alabama and those kids also stay local.

The top schools satisfy all satisfy Need-based financial aid obligations and usually have a higher percentage of kids on total aid (Need-based plus merit...very few at these schools receive merit) with much higher aid amounts such that their net cost is lower than the average Alabama kid receiving aid.

BTW, this entire thread is basically about UMC kids picking Alabama because it's free even though they are UMC.

Most kids going to Iowa State are majoring in things that pay more:
10% are Agricultural majors (many of those in Animal science---they are becoming vets or something in that realm)
25% are engineering
15% are business
within the LA school, many are in typical premed majors or STEM

So yes, most of those kids will ultimately be making more than an English major from U of A living in A

Business and engineering are the two most popular programs at Alabama by far.

Again, these arguments don’t carry any weight and aren’t based on anything at all.

Alabama ranks poorly for salary outcomes.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Both of my kids have/had full scholarships. My son in law had full ride with two scholarships. He got a check every semester from the university from the overage of scholarship money. The school has amazing programs and all three recruited and working upon graduation. My kids turned down big name colleges to attend with scholarships. Many high stats kids are doing the same. I believe it’ll raise the school’s profile over the next few years.

Hope this helps.

I've never heard of a merit scholarship that covers CoA + and extra check in your bank account.

Alabama gives NMF full tuition and room and board for five years (this can include graduate work) plus $4k a year and a one time $2k payment for research or study abroad.

They also have a robust honors college program including some well respected cohort programs within the honors college for particularly outstanding students.

So they have to pay intelligent students to attend? Smacks of desperation

That's how you build your school up, get top notch profs to want to teach/research there. It's working, they have improved dramatically in the last decade +.

Improved dramatically by what measure?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just couldn’t in good conscience send my DD to Alabama. I’m sure the actual university is fine, but politically and socially I just couldn’t do it. They have a near total abortion ban; one of the strictest in the nation. They are also one of the most religious states in the nation, with 58% of the population attending church regularly. They also rank very high on poverty, low on public education and have very little racial diversity. Thankfully we can pay for college (and grad school.)

You seem to be a very small minded person. How horrible that your first thought focused on abortion ! And, of course, you seem to hold contempt for, and disrespect, others' views and beliefs. I try to avoid such closed-minded individuals as you.

Based on your narrow minded outlook on life, you should consider letting your daughter make her own decision (maybe she is willing to grow & mature).

If not, consider one of the far left echo chamber schools like Vassar or Oberlin.

Yes I hold contempt for anyone who thinks they control another woman’s body. I refuse to apologize for that.

If access to abortion is your number one concern for where your daughter goes to college, you have failed miserably as her mother.

it's access to proper healthcare. And in a timely manner without politics involved.

But if that doesn't matter to you and your family, then feel free not to be concerned.

My kid also doesn't want to attend college in a town of 10K people, because that is too isolating for them and they want to be near a decent size city (they ended up in one with ~200K, decent city, but not one where anyone at the school plans to remain after college). But there is a hospital on the edge of campus for medical needs, and outside of Hospitals in the NYC area, it is the top hospital in the state.

So yes, kids makes choices about what they like and don't like and what they want for quality of life. For some that means ability to access healthcare, to live in an environment where people support others and have empathy for those who don't have everything they need in life. If that isn't for your kid, then dont' make it a consideration. Simply move on

DP

While I understand what you are saying and respect that perspective, I am here to offer another perspective.

I am a bleeding heart liberal with a kid at Bama. My day job falls under the social justice warrior umbrella, and my kid was raised in one of the most progressive and diverse communities on the planet. They attended public school with kids from all walks of life and were raised to recognize injustice and inspired to take action.

I reserved judgement when my kid was accepted and scheduled a visit. We met with several people and were very impressed. The first person who welcomed us was a gay man on staff for many years who had lived in our very progressive community for a number of years before returning to Alabama “where people are more friendly and real.” That was surprising to hear that this gay man felt happier in Tuscaloosa than DuPont Circle. I won’t bore you with the laundry list of diverse and progressive people we met during that visit, but rest assured those people exist.

Now that my kid has been there for a few years and is thriving, I think I’m most impressed by the fact they have gotten away from the very liberal bubble of the DC metro area and lived and worked with people who have different views. My kid is rather adept at networking and quickly establishing rapport with others, and their time at Bama has definitely given them a far more nuanced view of people, politics, and life in general.

There is definitely something to be said about southern hospitality and living in a close knit community. It’s more than a vibe; these kids are developing social skills they otherwise would not since it’s coming from a very specific culture on that campus.

My work involves working alongside elected leaders, community leaders, and frontline service providers dedicated to helping people struggling with myriad issues, and I have direct experience in several red states that dcum posters openly mock. I’ve always found that very strange for people who claim to be open-minded and concerned about human rights, etc. to be so openly hostile against entire states (and the locals or those who opt to move there). Practically speaking, there are plenty of fantastic people in those states…people just like us…so it’s bizarre to project stereotypes and pass judgement writ large. Moreover, avoiding rubbing elbows with people who aren’t apt to march in lockstep with you is a weird flex…especially coming from liberals. Be better. Be open to new environs and different perspectives.

Anyway, my kid is happy. They’ve made friends from all parts of the country and abroad. They love the campus community and have enjoyed the larger area. They will have 4 years of living in a community that is very different from our super diverse, super progressive hometown and I think that’s an asset.

They’ve also noticed differences both positive and negative. Such firsthand experience is invaluable.

As a parent, I wasn’t quite prepared for how openly critical some would be of my kid’s college. It’s been rather eye opening to see such hostility and judgment based on wild assumptions, bias, etc. from otherwise rational people (whose own children have largely gone from fancy private schools onto fancy colleges in liberal communities or the more “acceptable” southern schools). Regardless, I’m proud of my kid for stepping outside their bubble to try something unexpected and very different. It’s been a positive experience and a good life lesson on many levels.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for this very thoughtful response.

[Anonymous]

My oldest went there on the full ride scholarship for National Merit winners. He got his BA in three years and stayed on to get an MA. He is now at UVA Law School (ranked #4 Law School). University of Alabama is amazing, Roll Tide Forever!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just couldn’t in good conscience send my DD to Alabama. I’m sure the actual university is fine, but politically and socially I just couldn’t do it. They have a near total abortion ban; one of the strictest in the nation. They are also one of the most religious states in the nation, with 58% of the population attending church regularly. They also rank very high on poverty, low on public education and have very little racial diversity. Thankfully we can pay for college (and grad school.)

You seem to be a very small minded person. How horrible that your first thought focused on abortion ! And, of course, you seem to hold contempt for, and disrespect, others' views and beliefs. I try to avoid such closed-minded individuals as you.

Based on your narrow minded outlook on life, you should consider letting your daughter make her own decision (maybe she is willing to grow & mature).

If not, consider one of the far left echo chamber schools like Vassar or Oberlin.

Yes I hold contempt for anyone who thinks they control another woman’s body. I refuse to apologize for that.

If access to abortion is your number one concern for where your daughter goes to college, you have failed miserably as her mother.

it's access to proper healthcare. And in a timely manner without politics involved.

But if that doesn't matter to you and your family, then feel free not to be concerned.

My kid also doesn't want to attend college in a town of 10K people, because that is too isolating for them and they want to be near a decent size city (they ended up in one with ~200K, decent city, but not one where anyone at the school plans to remain after college). But there is a hospital on the edge of campus for medical needs, and outside of Hospitals in the NYC area, it is the top hospital in the state.

So yes, kids makes choices about what they like and don't like and what they want for quality of life. For some that means ability to access healthcare, to live in an environment where people support others and have empathy for those who don't have everything they need in life. If that isn't for your kid, then dont' make it a consideration. Simply move on

DP

While I understand what you are saying and respect that perspective, I am here to offer another perspective.

I am a bleeding heart liberal with a kid at Bama. My day job falls under the social justice warrior umbrella, and my kid was raised in one of the most progressive and diverse communities on the planet. They attended public school with kids from all walks of life and were raised to recognize injustice and inspired to take action.

I reserved judgement when my kid was accepted and scheduled a visit. We met with several people and were very impressed. The first person who welcomed us was a gay man on staff for many years who had lived in our very progressive community for a number of years before returning to Alabama “where people are more friendly and real.” That was surprising to hear that this gay man felt happier in Tuscaloosa than DuPont Circle. I won’t bore you with the laundry list of diverse and progressive people we met during that visit, but rest assured those people exist.

Now that my kid has been there for a few years and is thriving, I think I’m most impressed by the fact they have gotten away from the very liberal bubble of the DC metro area and lived and worked with people who have different views. My kid is rather adept at networking and quickly establishing rapport with others, and their time at Bama has definitely given them a far more nuanced view of people, politics, and life in general.

There is definitely something to be said about southern hospitality and living in a close knit community. It’s more than a vibe; these kids are developing social skills they otherwise would not since it’s coming from a very specific culture on that campus.

My work involves working alongside elected leaders, community leaders, and frontline service providers dedicated to helping people struggling with myriad issues, and I have direct experience in several red states that dcum posters openly mock. I’ve always found that very strange for people who claim to be open-minded and concerned about human rights, etc. to be so openly hostile against entire states (and the locals or those who opt to move there). Practically speaking, there are plenty of fantastic people in those states…people just like us…so it’s bizarre to project stereotypes and pass judgement writ large. Moreover, avoiding rubbing elbows with people who aren’t apt to march in lockstep with you is a weird flex…especially coming from liberals. Be better. Be open to new environs and different perspectives.

Anyway, my kid is happy. They’ve made friends from all parts of the country and abroad. They love the campus community and have enjoyed the larger area. They will have 4 years of living in a community that is very different from our super diverse, super progressive hometown and I think that’s an asset.

They’ve also noticed differences both positive and negative. Such firsthand experience is invaluable.

As a parent, I wasn’t quite prepared for how openly critical some would be of my kid’s college. It’s been rather eye opening to see such hostility and judgment based on wild assumptions, bias, etc. from otherwise rational people (whose own children have largely gone from fancy private schools onto fancy colleges in liberal communities or the more “acceptable” southern schools). Regardless, I’m proud of my kid for stepping outside their bubble to try something unexpected and very different. It’s been a positive experience and a good life lesson on many levels.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Your daughter wants diversity but doesn't want to be around anyone who thinks differently than her. Better stick to Oberlin.

DP here.

Viewing women as second class citizens is not “diversity.” There are no laws dictating what medical care men are able to receive in Alabama, or threatening to arrest doctors for doing what is best for them.

But yes, if I’m being honest, I don’t want her attending college with the children of people who think like you do.

Agreed!

And it's not "abortion" it's about treating women fairly and women having full access in a timely manner to the medical care they need (treatment to keep a woman alive after an ectopic pregnancy is considered an "abortion")

And yes, if you want to leave the choice of abortion in all cases to the states, then yes you will have people who (smartly) choose not to visit those states, and certainly choose not to spend 4 years there. Not when there are so many places that are not restrictive and treat women well.

However, you are free to choose to attend college there and allow your kid to and allow them to be treated as 2nd class citizens.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just couldn’t in good conscience send my DD to Alabama. I’m sure the actual university is fine, but politically and socially I just couldn’t do it. They have a near total abortion ban; one of the strictest in the nation. They are also one of the most religious states in the nation, with 58% of the population attending church regularly. They also rank very high on poverty, low on public education and have very little racial diversity. Thankfully we can pay for college (and grad school.)

Wow. I just cannot imagine your mindset as a mother.

DP:

My own daughter refused to look at schools in the South. For the political and social reasons. They wanted diversity, more centrist mindset (or leaning liberal) and the ability for herself and her friends to have full access to any healthcare they should need.
So it's not just parents with this attitude. It's educated people who realize they don't want to live somewhere that people cannot access basic healthcare rights. They want to live in an area where people care about others and support basic human rights.

There are many people in the South who dedicate themselves to reproductive rights and trying to preserve voting rights as well.

The arrogance here is just unbelievable.

we realize there are plenty of people working for that! However, they are fighting an uphill battle, and while I will full heartedly support them, I (as well as my daughters) do not care to spend extended periods of time in those areas.

However, at this point, it is not working and we have many states where "abortion" is illegal, and women cannot safely get the medical care they need in a timely manner. So outside of your views on abortion, the fact that women simply cannot get the care they need, it's a hard no from going there.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just found out that our DCs stats would mean full tuition and admission to the honors program at U Alabama. I know some folks would look down on Alabama but free college is pretty appealing. (Can save the college funds for grad school) anyone have experience with Alabama.

My kid there is there on a full ride. By the end of this year kid will have studied abroad in 5 different countries...which the scholarship paid for (most of). Lots of very smart kids at Alabama. Great programs, extremely small classes in the upper levels (fewer than 20 students) taught by professors (not TAs). Plus some pretty impressive and difficult to get into programs like Randall Research Scholars. They also offer a very popular 5 year STEM + MBA degree. Can't beat a FREE top notch education. Roll tide.

Do NOT get an MBA at age 22 from Alabama. Very bad idea.

Taking the full ride for undergrad could be a great idea. Getting a Bama MBA is a bad idea for anyone who hopes to become a high flier.

Not true. Friend of my DD did BS, MS in engineering and MBA in four years on scholarship. He is being recruited all over the country by top firms. Has three job offers.

What's your definition of 'top firms'? I doubt it's equal to that of most high fliers. Top firms do not visit Bama as a target school.

More importantly, delaying an MBA is crucial for two main reasons:

1) students get more out of MBA curricula when they have real professional work experience, which is why even schools with early admissions programs like Wharton and Harvard require admitted undergrads to work (in a full time, professional capacity) for at least two years before matriculating, and

2) the MBA is a great for people who want to pivot. Engineers do an MBA after 2-3 years because they want to move into management roles. Investment bankers do an MBA because they want to jump to private equity. Marketers do an MBA to make them attractive to large, international firms that overlooked them coming out of undergrad. All MBA students want to broaden their networks.

22 year olds who go directly into an MBA program, at Bama or anywhere else, forego these major benefits of the MBA, making the benefits of the degree very limited and the opportunity cost high. So it's NEVER a good idea to go directly into an MBA program from undergrad.

Ignore this poster. As someone with an MBA from a top5 school I don’t necessarily agree. This person is assuming there is only one pathway to a single career that is worth pursuing. If you aren’t trying to go into top tier IB or Management Consulting there can be lots of reasons to do a STEM+MBA that make total sense.

The purpose of an MBA is generally for career pivots. Kids who do business school in undergrad generally don’t also do an MBA. In this case your kid is trying to set himself up for more career options right away. There is no reason for him to do a double major STEM/business as an undergrad if he can learn the same content but achieve a masters.

Previous poster here: sounds like you made my point. Very very few college seniors -- who, by definition, have never worked full time in a professional capacity -- have the insight to predict whether the career pathway they start off with will be a good fit personally, or provide sufficient opportunities for growth. Doing an MBA directly from undergrad cuts off the most viable way to return to school and pivot. Doesn't allow the kid to expand alumni network by adding a second university.

And you are wrong about kids who do a business undergrad not doing an MBA. Some don't, because they are already at top tier companies and are succeeding. Many, esp. those who are floundering, do add an MBA.

If you believe very few students know which career pathway is going to be their ultimate trajectory wouldn’t it make MORE sense to do a dual business/STEM so you maximize your diversity of skills? Particularly if you can do it in far less time at far lower cost than waiting?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The poverty rate is higher in most major northern cities than Alabama. Yeah the state has problems, but so does the north. One problem they don't seem to have is providing affordable quality higher education. If you get into an Ivy, sure it opens doors. But most kids aren't getting into Harvard or Yale. I doubt graduating with massive debt from a NYU or GWU puts you in a better position than a degree from Alabama. Those are good schools, but unless you have endless money to burn, one needs to take a serious look at a place like Alabama. College is what you make of it, and it sure sounds like a high-achieving students can have a great experience there that will prepare them for the future without killing themself with loans. Florida used to have a similar reputation as Alabama and now its one of the top public universities in the nation.

I don't know the answer...but if you look at just salary data of Alabama on the WSJ ranking it's ranked 380 (it's even lower than Alabama Huntsville on this metric) vs. 90 for GW. NYU actually rates very low as well (310), so you are likely correct on that one.

Ga Tech as one example is #5...it would seem that it's almost a no brainer to even pay full freight for Ga Tech OOS (which is cheap for OOS at like $50k) vs. Alabama if you plan to go into the workforce after graduation, but Penn, CMU, Babson are all top 10 and would be worth the price as well as just some examples.

This might be true but if you look at the fact base it quickly becomes clear that is more to the story. I expect a good percentage of the Alabama kids to stay in Alabama where the cost of living is significantly lower than NY, DMV, Silicon Valley, etc. Alabama does have a great honors program but it also serves non-honors Alabama state students who are looking to move into local jobs. That is not remotely the same as CMU which is $90k/year and most of the kids are from wealthy already well connected families and all of them are pursing majors that are higher paying. Nobody is studying special education at CMU.

The cost of living argument doesn't hold water. There are plenty of schools like University of Missouri (200) or Iowa State (141) as just two examples, that again rank far higher on the salary metric and these schools have higher acceptance rates than even University of Alabama and those kids also stay local.

The top schools satisfy all satisfy Need-based financial aid obligations and usually have a higher percentage of kids on total aid (Need-based plus merit...very few at these schools receive merit) with much higher aid amounts such that their net cost is lower than the average Alabama kid receiving aid.

BTW, this entire thread is basically about UMC kids picking Alabama because it's free even though they are UMC.

Most kids going to Iowa State are majoring in things that pay more:
10% are Agricultural majors (many of those in Animal science---they are becoming vets or something in that realm)
25% are engineering
15% are business
within the LA school, many are in typical premed majors or STEM

So yes, most of those kids will ultimately be making more than an English major from U of A living in A

Business and engineering are the two most popular programs at Alabama by far.

Again, these arguments don’t carry any weight and aren’t based on anything at all.

Alabama ranks poorly for salary outcomes.

You have to compare where they end up. you have to adjust the salaries for the cost of living area. For example: most of the Boston colleges have higher average salaries (even when broken down to majors) than many other schools. And it's obvious that a large part of it is due to kids remaining in Boston area, which is one of the most expensive in the country. So obviously they will get paid more than someone in Chicago (not much but still more) and more than DC area. You must compare apples to apples to do it right

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just couldn’t in good conscience send my DD to Alabama. I’m sure the actual university is fine, but politically and socially I just couldn’t do it. They have a near total abortion ban; one of the strictest in the nation. They are also one of the most religious states in the nation, with 58% of the population attending church regularly. They also rank very high on poverty, low on public education and have very little racial diversity. Thankfully we can pay for college (and grad school.)

You seem to be a very small minded person. How horrible that your first thought focused on abortion ! And, of course, you seem to hold contempt for, and disrespect, others' views and beliefs. I try to avoid such closed-minded individuals as you.

Based on your narrow minded outlook on life, you should consider letting your daughter make her own decision (maybe she is willing to grow & mature).

If not, consider one of the far left echo chamber schools like Vassar or Oberlin.

Yes I hold contempt for anyone who thinks they control another woman’s body. I refuse to apologize for that.

If access to abortion is your number one concern for where your daughter goes to college, you have failed miserably as her mother.

it's access to proper healthcare. And in a timely manner without politics involved.

But if that doesn't matter to you and your family, then feel free not to be concerned.

My kid also doesn't want to attend college in a town of 10K people, because that is too isolating for them and they want to be near a decent size city (they ended up in one with ~200K, decent city, but not one where anyone at the school plans to remain after college). But there is a hospital on the edge of campus for medical needs, and outside of Hospitals in the NYC area, it is the top hospital in the state.

So yes, kids makes choices about what they like and don't like and what they want for quality of life. For some that means ability to access healthcare, to live in an environment where people support others and have empathy for those who don't have everything they need in life. If that isn't for your kid, then dont' make it a consideration. Simply move on

DP

While I understand what you are saying and respect that perspective, I am here to offer another perspective.

I am a bleeding heart liberal with a kid at Bama. My day job falls under the social justice warrior umbrella, and my kid was raised in one of the most progressive and diverse communities on the planet. They attended public school with kids from all walks of life and were raised to recognize injustice and inspired to take action.

I reserved judgement when my kid was accepted and scheduled a visit. We met with several people and were very impressed. The first person who welcomed us was a gay man on staff for many years who had lived in our very progressive community for a number of years before returning to Alabama “where people are more friendly and real.” That was surprising to hear that this gay man felt happier in Tuscaloosa than DuPont Circle. I won’t bore you with the laundry list of diverse and progressive people we met during that visit, but rest assured those people exist.

Now that my kid has been there for a few years and is thriving, I think I’m most impressed by the fact they have gotten away from the very liberal bubble of the DC metro area and lived and worked with people who have different views. My kid is rather adept at networking and quickly establishing rapport with others, and their time at Bama has definitely given them a far more nuanced view of people, politics, and life in general.

There is definitely something to be said about southern hospitality and living in a close knit community. It’s more than a vibe; these kids are developing social skills they otherwise would not since it’s coming from a very specific culture on that campus.

My work involves working alongside elected leaders, community leaders, and frontline service providers dedicated to helping people struggling with myriad issues, and I have direct experience in several red states that dcum posters openly mock. I’ve always found that very strange for people who claim to be open-minded and concerned about human rights, etc. to be so openly hostile against entire states (and the locals or those who opt to move there). Practically speaking, there are plenty of fantastic people in those states…people just like us…so it’s bizarre to project stereotypes and pass judgement writ large. Moreover, avoiding rubbing elbows with people who aren’t apt to march in lockstep with you is a weird flex…especially coming from liberals. Be better. Be open to new environs and different perspectives.

Anyway, my kid is happy. They’ve made friends from all parts of the country and abroad. They love the campus community and have enjoyed the larger area. They will have 4 years of living in a community that is very different from our super diverse, super progressive hometown and I think that’s an asset.

They’ve also noticed differences both positive and negative. Such firsthand experience is invaluable.

As a parent, I wasn’t quite prepared for how openly critical some would be of my kid’s college. It’s been rather eye opening to see such hostility and judgment based on wild assumptions, bias, etc. from otherwise rational people (whose own children have largely gone from fancy private schools onto fancy colleges in liberal communities or the more “acceptable” southern schools). Regardless, I’m proud of my kid for stepping outside their bubble to try something unexpected and very different. It’s been a positive experience and a good life lesson on many levels.

Once again, kudos to you and your son! I'm glad he is happy there! If my kid wanted to attend a school like that, she was free to do so. The desire to apply elsewhere was entirely her choice.
Also, you have a SON. So his personal medical needs can be fully met while at school. With a daughter it is different. And you didn't mention race, but my kid is half asian, so it is also different as a non white, non male in these areas.

Yes, it's great to step out of our bubble. However, I'm not going to force a kid to go to Florida or Texas or Alabama unless they are interested. Just like I'm not forcing them to Boston or NY or Chicago or LA unless that is their desire.