Which colleges are considered the "Little Ivies"?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Agree Midd is in decline as is Trinity and Wesleyan. Colby on an upward trajectory!

Colby was ranked #11 in USNews in 2022. Last year it was 25. Doesn't sound much like an upward trajectory to me!

Colby just got a ton of money. But US News does not decide things on this front, in any event. Observers know which way certain colleges are “moving.” Midd is not in the decline because of US News methodology, but because of its own, well-documented issues.

Well discussed and well understood.

There are no “issues” at Middlebury but there was a well documented change the USNWR methodology regarding which IPEDs number was used for determining the student population which had a big impact on their resources per student calculation because the using the 12 month number added 2200 summer language school kids to their population when calculating resources per student. Forbes made a similar change and Middlebury is no longer ranked as a small school though it did not affect their overall ranking in Forbes.

So their resources per student were accurately tabulated and that’s bad?

Midd endowment per student - not counting these summer kids - is just not on the same level as top SLACs. WASP, Bowdoin, and Grinnell have way over a million in endowment per student;Washington and Lee and Wellesley, a million; Claremont McKenna and Smith, over 750k; Davidson, Hamilton, Carleton, 600k; and Midd, Colby and Reed below 500k (but Colby just got wealthier). https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent/

Raising their endowment is important to them I am sure but your math is quickly falling off. Middlebury’s endowment per student already surpasses Cornell and Columbia. In two years when they are finished shedding MIIS it will surpass Hamilton in the NESCAC as well as Brown and probably Penn. I think that they will be ok.

So MIIS was a problem and was taking resources from the community? You people change your story every minute.

Are you the same person who sh!ts on Middlebury in every single thread? What’s your beef with the school? Were you fired by a Midd grad? Did a Middlebury girl steal your boyfriend? I just don’t get the hate for a school that you likely have no tie to and no experience with.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree Midd is in decline as is Trinity and Wesleyan. Colby on an upward trajectory!

Colby was ranked #11 in USNews in 2022. Last year it was 25. Doesn't sound much like an upward trajectory to me!

Colby just got a ton of money. But US News does not decide things on this front, in any event. Observers know which way certain colleges are “moving.” Midd is not in the decline because of US News methodology, but because of its own, well-documented issues.

Well discussed and well understood.

There are no “issues” at Middlebury but there was a well documented change the USNWR methodology regarding which IPEDs number was used for determining the student population which had a big impact on their resources per student calculation because the using the 12 month number added 2200 summer language school kids to their population when calculating resources per student. Forbes made a similar change and Middlebury is no longer ranked as a small school though it did not affect their overall ranking in Forbes.

So their resources per student were accurately tabulated and that’s bad?

Midd endowment per student - not counting these summer kids - is just not on the same level as top SLACs. WASP, Bowdoin, and Grinnell have way over a million in endowment per student;Washington and Lee and Wellesley, a million; Claremont McKenna and Smith, over 750k; Davidson, Hamilton, Carleton, 600k; and Midd, Colby and Reed below 500k (but Colby just got wealthier). https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent/

Endowment per student doesn't translate into a better educational experience. All of these schools with $1B+ endowments have enough money to provide excellent facilities, hire top talent, and provide robust financial aid packages. At a certain point, it's just hoarding, really. Princeton's endowment per student is $3.7M. Does Williams provide half as good an educational experience because its endowment per student is $1.7M?

And Colby didn't just add $150M to its endowment. They received a gift that has a specific purpose--to build a new science complex. You don't seem to know much about how endowments work.

Endowment money is usually geared to a specific purpose. It will be calculated in — until it’s used.

Regardless, Colby still doesn’t have the endowment to compete with the big boys. You don’t seem to realize that it matters when a school has 3x the per capita endowment of Midd. It matters in all sorts of ways…

Name one, an actual one where Williams, Amherst, and Bowdoin provide opportunities significantly different than at Hamilton, Middlebury, Wesleyan, or Colby? I used to work at one of the schools in the list. I also spent time at CMC so I’m pretty good in this space…..think hard, really hard and give it your best shot. We’ll be waiting.

So now we are back to endowments being important? You used to work at Midd? Part of their layoffs? All because of their budget problems made necessary, in part, because of their lower annual draw from their lower endowment? I guess students have no problems with larger classes and less faculty.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Agree Midd is in decline as is Trinity and Wesleyan. Colby on an upward trajectory!

Colby was ranked #11 in USNews in 2022. Last year it was 25. Doesn't sound much like an upward trajectory to me!

Colby just got a ton of money. But US News does not decide things on this front, in any event. Observers know which way certain colleges are “moving.” Midd is not in the decline because of US News methodology, but because of its own, well-documented issues.

Well discussed and well understood.

There are no “issues” at Middlebury but there was a well documented change the USNWR methodology regarding which IPEDs number was used for determining the student population which had a big impact on their resources per student calculation because the using the 12 month number added 2200 summer language school kids to their population when calculating resources per student. Forbes made a similar change and Middlebury is no longer ranked as a small school though it did not affect their overall ranking in Forbes.

So their resources per student were accurately tabulated and that’s bad?

Midd endowment per student - not counting these summer kids - is just not on the same level as top SLACs. WASP, Bowdoin, and Grinnell have way over a million in endowment per student;Washington and Lee and Wellesley, a million; Claremont McKenna and Smith, over 750k; Davidson, Hamilton, Carleton, 600k; and Midd, Colby and Reed below 500k (but Colby just got wealthier). https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent/

Endowment per student doesn't translate into a better educational experience. All of these schools with $1B+ endowments have enough money to provide excellent facilities, hire top talent, and provide robust financial aid packages. At a certain point, it's just hoarding, really. Princeton's endowment per student is $3.7M. Does Williams provide half as good an educational experience because its endowment per student is $1.7M?

And Colby didn't just add $150M to its endowment. They received a gift that has a specific purpose--to build a new science complex. You don't seem to know much about how endowments work.

In terms of volumes of opportunities, I’d say 100% yes. Princeton essentially operates as a liberal arts college while having some of the best academic resources in the world.

If that is what you say then you would be 100% wrong because by your thinking Princeton would be about 20x as good Goddard’s as Columbia or Cornell and does that really make any sense?

Yes it does. If you're an undergrad at Princeton, you have it made. I'm not sure why you think otherwise, other than being very stubborn in opinion.

If you think that the Princeton experience is significantly different than other top schools you need a reality check.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree Midd is in decline as is Trinity and Wesleyan. Colby on an upward trajectory!

Colby was ranked #11 in USNews in 2022. Last year it was 25. Doesn't sound much like an upward trajectory to me!

Colby just got a ton of money. But US News does not decide things on this front, in any event. Observers know which way certain colleges are “moving.” Midd is not in the decline because of US News methodology, but because of its own, well-documented issues.

Well discussed and well understood.

There are no “issues” at Middlebury but there was a well documented change the USNWR methodology regarding which IPEDs number was used for determining the student population which had a big impact on their resources per student calculation because the using the 12 month number added 2200 summer language school kids to their population when calculating resources per student. Forbes made a similar change and Middlebury is no longer ranked as a small school though it did not affect their overall ranking in Forbes.

So their resources per student were accurately tabulated and that’s bad?

Midd endowment per student - not counting these summer kids - is just not on the same level as top SLACs. WASP, Bowdoin, and Grinnell have way over a million in endowment per student;Washington and Lee and Wellesley, a million; Claremont McKenna and Smith, over 750k; Davidson, Hamilton, Carleton, 600k; and Midd, Colby and Reed below 500k (but Colby just got wealthier). https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent/

Endowment per student doesn't translate into a better educational experience. All of these schools with $1B+ endowments have enough money to provide excellent facilities, hire top talent, and provide robust financial aid packages. At a certain point, it's just hoarding, really. Princeton's endowment per student is $3.7M. Does Williams provide half as good an educational experience because its endowment per student is $1.7M?

And Colby didn't just add $150M to its endowment. They received a gift that has a specific purpose--to build a new science complex. You don't seem to know much about how endowments work.

Endowment money is usually geared to a specific purpose. It will be calculated in — until it’s used.

Regardless, Colby still doesn’t have the endowment to compete with the big boys. You don’t seem to realize that it matters when a school has 3x the per capita endowment of Midd. It matters in all sorts of ways…

Name one, an actual one where Williams, Amherst, and Bowdoin provide opportunities significantly different than at Hamilton, Middlebury, Wesleyan, or Colby? I used to work at one of the schools in the list. I also spent time at CMC so I’m pretty good in this space…..think hard, really hard and give it your best shot. We’ll be waiting.

Wesleyan president recently joked at a talk I attended that parents were rushing to him asking when they were going to offer courses like at Williams where they learn art history and then go to Florence. Williams' tutorials system is unique to its endowment capabilities. Bowdoin has an arctic, environmental, and coastal studies center, funded strongly by their great endowment. Amherst doesn't have much; I've never been impressed by it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree Midd is in decline as is Trinity and Wesleyan. Colby on an upward trajectory!

Colby was ranked #11 in USNews in 2022. Last year it was 25. Doesn't sound much like an upward trajectory to me!

Colby just got a ton of money. But US News does not decide things on this front, in any event. Observers know which way certain colleges are “moving.” Midd is not in the decline because of US News methodology, but because of its own, well-documented issues.

Well discussed and well understood.

There are no “issues” at Middlebury but there was a well documented change the USNWR methodology regarding which IPEDs number was used for determining the student population which had a big impact on their resources per student calculation because the using the 12 month number added 2200 summer language school kids to their population when calculating resources per student. Forbes made a similar change and Middlebury is no longer ranked as a small school though it did not affect their overall ranking in Forbes.

So their resources per student were accurately tabulated and that’s bad?

Midd endowment per student - not counting these summer kids - is just not on the same level as top SLACs. WASP, Bowdoin, and Grinnell have way over a million in endowment per student;Washington and Lee and Wellesley, a million; Claremont McKenna and Smith, over 750k; Davidson, Hamilton, Carleton, 600k; and Midd, Colby and Reed below 500k (but Colby just got wealthier). https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent/

Endowment per student doesn't translate into a better educational experience. All of these schools with $1B+ endowments have enough money to provide excellent facilities, hire top talent, and provide robust financial aid packages. At a certain point, it's just hoarding, really. Princeton's endowment per student is $3.7M. Does Williams provide half as good an educational experience because its endowment per student is $1.7M?

And Colby didn't just add $150M to its endowment. They received a gift that has a specific purpose--to build a new science complex. You don't seem to know much about how endowments work.

In terms of volumes of opportunities, I’d say 100% yes. Princeton essentially operates as a liberal arts college while having some of the best academic resources in the world.

If that is what you say then you would be 100% wrong because by your thinking Princeton would be about 20x as good Goddard’s as Columbia or Cornell and does that really make any sense?

Yes it does. If you're an undergrad at Princeton, you have it made. I'm not sure why you think otherwise, other than being very stubborn in opinion.

If you think that the Princeton experience is significantly different than other top schools you need a reality check.

He says with no evidence or reasoning. Clearly you didn't get a Princeton-level education.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Agree Midd is in decline as is Trinity and Wesleyan. Colby on an upward trajectory!

Colby was ranked #11 in USNews in 2022. Last year it was 25. Doesn't sound much like an upward trajectory to me!

Colby just got a ton of money. But US News does not decide things on this front, in any event. Observers know which way certain colleges are “moving.” Midd is not in the decline because of US News methodology, but because of its own, well-documented issues.

Well discussed and well understood.

There are no “issues” at Middlebury but there was a well documented change the USNWR methodology regarding which IPEDs number was used for determining the student population which had a big impact on their resources per student calculation because the using the 12 month number added 2200 summer language school kids to their population when calculating resources per student. Forbes made a similar change and Middlebury is no longer ranked as a small school though it did not affect their overall ranking in Forbes.

So their resources per student were accurately tabulated and that’s bad?

Midd endowment per student - not counting these summer kids - is just not on the same level as top SLACs. WASP, Bowdoin, and Grinnell have way over a million in endowment per student;Washington and Lee and Wellesley, a million; Claremont McKenna and Smith, over 750k; Davidson, Hamilton, Carleton, 600k; and Midd, Colby and Reed below 500k (but Colby just got wealthier). https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent/

Raising their endowment is important to them I am sure but your math is quickly falling off. Middlebury’s endowment per student already surpasses Cornell and Columbia. In two years when they are finished shedding MIIS it will surpass Hamilton in the NESCAC as well as Brown and probably Penn. I think that they will be ok.

Why is their raising endowment important? I thought you were saying it wasn’t.
In terms of math “falling off”, yes, they only need a $280 million donation in the next two years to equal Hamilton’s per capita. Maybe you could help?

They drop 800 students from their number in two years my little friend. Raising endowments is a key goal for all of these schools. Middlebury has made no secret about wanting to move up relative to their peers. I would be surprised if there was a school in their peer list who didn’t have a capital campaign going on. It is non stop for all of them.

That number already is not factored into the per capita levels from the cite provided. The more you talk, the worse Midd looks.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree Midd is in decline as is Trinity and Wesleyan. Colby on an upward trajectory!

Colby was ranked #11 in USNews in 2022. Last year it was 25. Doesn't sound much like an upward trajectory to me!

Colby just got a ton of money. But US News does not decide things on this front, in any event. Observers know which way certain colleges are “moving.” Midd is not in the decline because of US News methodology, but because of its own, well-documented issues.

Well discussed and well understood.

There are no “issues” at Middlebury but there was a well documented change the USNWR methodology regarding which IPEDs number was used for determining the student population which had a big impact on their resources per student calculation because the using the 12 month number added 2200 summer language school kids to their population when calculating resources per student. Forbes made a similar change and Middlebury is no longer ranked as a small school though it did not affect their overall ranking in Forbes.

So their resources per student were accurately tabulated and that’s bad?

Midd endowment per student - not counting these summer kids - is just not on the same level as top SLACs. WASP, Bowdoin, and Grinnell have way over a million in endowment per student;Washington and Lee and Wellesley, a million; Claremont McKenna and Smith, over 750k; Davidson, Hamilton, Carleton, 600k; and Midd, Colby and Reed below 500k (but Colby just got wealthier). https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent/

Endowment per student doesn't translate into a better educational experience. All of these schools with $1B+ endowments have enough money to provide excellent facilities, hire top talent, and provide robust financial aid packages. At a certain point, it's just hoarding, really. Princeton's endowment per student is $3.7M. Does Williams provide half as good an educational experience because its endowment per student is $1.7M?

And Colby didn't just add $150M to its endowment. They received a gift that has a specific purpose--to build a new science complex. You don't seem to know much about how endowments work.

Endowment money is usually geared to a specific purpose. It will be calculated in — until it’s used.

Regardless, Colby still doesn’t have the endowment to compete with the big boys. You don’t seem to realize that it matters when a school has 3x the per capita endowment of Midd. It matters in all sorts of ways…

Name one, an actual one where Williams, Amherst, and Bowdoin provide opportunities significantly different than at Hamilton, Middlebury, Wesleyan, or Colby? I used to work at one of the schools in the list. I also spent time at CMC so I’m pretty good in this space…..think hard, really hard and give it your best shot. We’ll be waiting.

Wesleyan president recently joked at a talk I attended that parents were rushing to him asking when they were going to offer courses like at Williams where they learn art history and then go to Florence. Williams' tutorials system is unique to its endowment capabilities. Bowdoin has an arctic, environmental, and coastal studies center, funded strongly by their great endowment. Amherst doesn't have much; I've never been impressed by it.

Last I checked, Williams has not only a no-loan financial aid policy, but a no work policy either. Not even work-study. How about Midd?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree Midd is in decline as is Trinity and Wesleyan. Colby on an upward trajectory!

Colby was ranked #11 in USNews in 2022. Last year it was 25. Doesn't sound much like an upward trajectory to me!

Colby just got a ton of money. But US News does not decide things on this front, in any event. Observers know which way certain colleges are “moving.” Midd is not in the decline because of US News methodology, but because of its own, well-documented issues.

Well discussed and well understood.

There are no “issues” at Middlebury but there was a well documented change the USNWR methodology regarding which IPEDs number was used for determining the student population which had a big impact on their resources per student calculation because the using the 12 month number added 2200 summer language school kids to their population when calculating resources per student. Forbes made a similar change and Middlebury is no longer ranked as a small school though it did not affect their overall ranking in Forbes.

So their resources per student were accurately tabulated and that’s bad?

Midd endowment per student - not counting these summer kids - is just not on the same level as top SLACs. WASP, Bowdoin, and Grinnell have way over a million in endowment per student;Washington and Lee and Wellesley, a million; Claremont McKenna and Smith, over 750k; Davidson, Hamilton, Carleton, 600k; and Midd, Colby and Reed below 500k (but Colby just got wealthier). https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent/

Endowment per student doesn't translate into a better educational experience. All of these schools with $1B+ endowments have enough money to provide excellent facilities, hire top talent, and provide robust financial aid packages. At a certain point, it's just hoarding, really. Princeton's endowment per student is $3.7M. Does Williams provide half as good an educational experience because its endowment per student is $1.7M?

And Colby didn't just add $150M to its endowment. They received a gift that has a specific purpose--to build a new science complex. You don't seem to know much about how endowments work.

Endowment money is usually geared to a specific purpose. It will be calculated in — until it’s used.

Regardless, Colby still doesn’t have the endowment to compete with the big boys. You don’t seem to realize that it matters when a school has 3x the per capita endowment of Midd. It matters in all sorts of ways…

Name one, an actual one where Williams, Amherst, and Bowdoin provide opportunities significantly different than at Hamilton, Middlebury, Wesleyan, or Colby? I used to work at one of the schools in the list. I also spent time at CMC so I’m pretty good in this space…..think hard, really hard and give it your best shot. We’ll be waiting.

So now we are back to endowments being important? You used to work at Midd? Part of their layoffs? All because of their budget problems made necessary, in part, because of their lower annual draw from their lower endowment? I guess students have no problems with larger classes and less faculty.

Never worked at Midd but I know them well as I do all of these schools. I’m also pretty sure the kids aren’t suffering with class sizes and reduced faculty. All of these schools have great resources. I’m on the west coast now but I’m sure that they all are doing great as they were when I was back east. Funny thing is that the schools themselves get along well with each other, they would never behave like the fools on this board.

I’m glad that Midd is getting rid of MIIS, it always seemed like an unnecessary distraction to me. The new President will interesting as well, he quickly made a decision that Patton should have made 10 years ago.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree Midd is in decline as is Trinity and Wesleyan. Colby on an upward trajectory!

Colby was ranked #11 in USNews in 2022. Last year it was 25. Doesn't sound much like an upward trajectory to me!

Colby just got a ton of money. But US News does not decide things on this front, in any event. Observers know which way certain colleges are “moving.” Midd is not in the decline because of US News methodology, but because of its own, well-documented issues.

Well discussed and well understood.

There are no “issues” at Middlebury but there was a well documented change the USNWR methodology regarding which IPEDs number was used for determining the student population which had a big impact on their resources per student calculation because the using the 12 month number added 2200 summer language school kids to their population when calculating resources per student. Forbes made a similar change and Middlebury is no longer ranked as a small school though it did not affect their overall ranking in Forbes.

So their resources per student were accurately tabulated and that’s bad?

Midd endowment per student - not counting these summer kids - is just not on the same level as top SLACs. WASP, Bowdoin, and Grinnell have way over a million in endowment per student;Washington and Lee and Wellesley, a million; Claremont McKenna and Smith, over 750k; Davidson, Hamilton, Carleton, 600k; and Midd, Colby and Reed below 500k (but Colby just got wealthier). https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent/

Endowment per student doesn't translate into a better educational experience. All of these schools with $1B+ endowments have enough money to provide excellent facilities, hire top talent, and provide robust financial aid packages. At a certain point, it's just hoarding, really. Princeton's endowment per student is $3.7M. Does Williams provide half as good an educational experience because its endowment per student is $1.7M?

And Colby didn't just add $150M to its endowment. They received a gift that has a specific purpose--to build a new science complex. You don't seem to know much about how endowments work.

Endowment money is usually geared to a specific purpose. It will be calculated in — until it’s used.

Regardless, Colby still doesn’t have the endowment to compete with the big boys. You don’t seem to realize that it matters when a school has 3x the per capita endowment of Midd. It matters in all sorts of ways…

Name one, an actual one where Williams, Amherst, and Bowdoin provide opportunities significantly different than at Hamilton, Middlebury, Wesleyan, or Colby? I used to work at one of the schools in the list. I also spent time at CMC so I’m pretty good in this space…..think hard, really hard and give it your best shot. We’ll be waiting.

Wesleyan president recently joked at a talk I attended that parents were rushing to him asking when they were going to offer courses like at Williams where they learn art history and then go to Florence. Williams' tutorials system is unique to its endowment capabilities. Bowdoin has an arctic, environmental, and coastal studies center, funded strongly by their great endowment. Amherst doesn't have much; I've never been impressed by it.

Last I checked, Williams has not only a no-loan financial aid policy, but a no work policy either. Not even work-study. How about Midd?

Go eps! Williams also has a long history of being racist: https://williamsrecord.com/469671/news/dorm-room-door-defaced-with-derogatory-and-hateful-slurs/

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Agree Midd is in decline as is Trinity and Wesleyan. Colby on an upward trajectory!

Colby was ranked #11 in USNews in 2022. Last year it was 25. Doesn't sound much like an upward trajectory to me!

Colby just got a ton of money. But US News does not decide things on this front, in any event. Observers know which way certain colleges are “moving.” Midd is not in the decline because of US News methodology, but because of its own, well-documented issues.

Well discussed and well understood.

There are no “issues” at Middlebury but there was a well documented change the USNWR methodology regarding which IPEDs number was used for determining the student population which had a big impact on their resources per student calculation because the using the 12 month number added 2200 summer language school kids to their population when calculating resources per student. Forbes made a similar change and Middlebury is no longer ranked as a small school though it did not affect their overall ranking in Forbes.

So their resources per student were accurately tabulated and that’s bad?

Midd endowment per student - not counting these summer kids - is just not on the same level as top SLACs. WASP, Bowdoin, and Grinnell have way over a million in endowment per student;Washington and Lee and Wellesley, a million; Claremont McKenna and Smith, over 750k; Davidson, Hamilton, Carleton, 600k; and Midd, Colby and Reed below 500k (but Colby just got wealthier). https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent/

Raising their endowment is important to them I am sure but your math is quickly falling off. Middlebury’s endowment per student already surpasses Cornell and Columbia. In two years when they are finished shedding MIIS it will surpass Hamilton in the NESCAC as well as Brown and probably Penn. I think that they will be ok.

Why is their raising endowment important? I thought you were saying it wasn’t.
In terms of math “falling off”, yes, they only need a $280 million donation in the next two years to equal Hamilton’s per capita. Maybe you could help?

They drop 800 students from their number in two years my little friend. Raising endowments is a key goal for all of these schools. Middlebury has made no secret about wanting to move up relative to their peers. I would be surprised if there was a school in their peer list who didn’t have a capital campaign going on. It is non stop for all of them.

That number already is not factored into the per capita levels from the cite provided. The more you talk, the worse Midd looks.

? Math isn’t your strong suit I guess.

That 800 students is the FTE graduate population at MIIS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree Midd is in decline as is Trinity and Wesleyan. Colby on an upward trajectory!

Colby was ranked #11 in USNews in 2022. Last year it was 25. Doesn't sound much like an upward trajectory to me!

Colby just got a ton of money. But US News does not decide things on this front, in any event. Observers know which way certain colleges are “moving.” Midd is not in the decline because of US News methodology, but because of its own, well-documented issues.

Well discussed and well understood.

There are no “issues” at Middlebury but there was a well documented change the USNWR methodology regarding which IPEDs number was used for determining the student population which had a big impact on their resources per student calculation because the using the 12 month number added 2200 summer language school kids to their population when calculating resources per student. Forbes made a similar change and Middlebury is no longer ranked as a small school though it did not affect their overall ranking in Forbes.

So their resources per student were accurately tabulated and that’s bad?

Midd endowment per student - not counting these summer kids - is just not on the same level as top SLACs. WASP, Bowdoin, and Grinnell have way over a million in endowment per student;Washington and Lee and Wellesley, a million; Claremont McKenna and Smith, over 750k; Davidson, Hamilton, Carleton, 600k; and Midd, Colby and Reed below 500k (but Colby just got wealthier). https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent/

Endowment per student doesn't translate into a better educational experience. All of these schools with $1B+ endowments have enough money to provide excellent facilities, hire top talent, and provide robust financial aid packages. At a certain point, it's just hoarding, really. Princeton's endowment per student is $3.7M. Does Williams provide half as good an educational experience because its endowment per student is $1.7M?

And Colby didn't just add $150M to its endowment. They received a gift that has a specific purpose--to build a new science complex. You don't seem to know much about how endowments work.

Endowment money is usually geared to a specific purpose. It will be calculated in — until it’s used.

Regardless, Colby still doesn’t have the endowment to compete with the big boys. You don’t seem to realize that it matters when a school has 3x the per capita endowment of Midd. It matters in all sorts of ways…

Name one, an actual one where Williams, Amherst, and Bowdoin provide opportunities significantly different than at Hamilton, Middlebury, Wesleyan, or Colby? I used to work at one of the schools in the list. I also spent time at CMC so I’m pretty good in this space…..think hard, really hard and give it your best shot. We’ll be waiting.

Pomona — $1.5 million per student — gives free music lessons.

[Anonymous]

The Little Ivies are Dartmouth, Brown, and Columbia.

Certain Big 10 schools like Penn and Cornell sometimes claim to be Little Ivies, but really they belong in the Public Ivies category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Agree Midd is in decline as is Trinity and Wesleyan. Colby on an upward trajectory!

Colby was ranked #11 in USNews in 2022. Last year it was 25. Doesn't sound much like an upward trajectory to me!

Colby just got a ton of money. But US News does not decide things on this front, in any event. Observers know which way certain colleges are “moving.” Midd is not in the decline because of US News methodology, but because of its own, well-documented issues.

Well discussed and well understood.

There are no “issues” at Middlebury but there was a well documented change the USNWR methodology regarding which IPEDs number was used for determining the student population which had a big impact on their resources per student calculation because the using the 12 month number added 2200 summer language school kids to their population when calculating resources per student. Forbes made a similar change and Middlebury is no longer ranked as a small school though it did not affect their overall ranking in Forbes.

So their resources per student were accurately tabulated and that’s bad?

Midd endowment per student - not counting these summer kids - is just not on the same level as top SLACs. WASP, Bowdoin, and Grinnell have way over a million in endowment per student;Washington and Lee and Wellesley, a million; Claremont McKenna and Smith, over 750k; Davidson, Hamilton, Carleton, 600k; and Midd, Colby and Reed below 500k (but Colby just got wealthier). https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/EndowmentPerStudent/

Endowment per student doesn't translate into a better educational experience. All of these schools with $1B+ endowments have enough money to provide excellent facilities, hire top talent, and provide robust financial aid packages. At a certain point, it's just hoarding, really. Princeton's endowment per student is $3.7M. Does Williams provide half as good an educational experience because its endowment per student is $1.7M?

And Colby didn't just add $150M to its endowment. They received a gift that has a specific purpose--to build a new science complex. You don't seem to know much about how endowments work.

Endowment money is usually geared to a specific purpose. It will be calculated in — until it’s used.

Regardless, Colby still doesn’t have the endowment to compete with the big boys. You don’t seem to realize that it matters when a school has 3x the per capita endowment of Midd. It matters in all sorts of ways…

Name one, an actual one where Williams, Amherst, and Bowdoin provide opportunities significantly different than at Hamilton, Middlebury, Wesleyan, or Colby? I used to work at one of the schools in the list. I also spent time at CMC so I’m pretty good in this space…..think hard, really hard and give it your best shot. We’ll be waiting.

Wesleyan president recently joked at a talk I attended that parents were rushing to him asking when they were going to offer courses like at Williams where they learn art history and then go to Florence. Williams' tutorials system is unique to its endowment capabilities. Bowdoin has an arctic, environmental, and coastal studies center, funded strongly by their great endowment. Amherst doesn't have much; I've never been impressed by it.

Last I checked, Williams has not only a no-loan financial aid policy, but a no work policy either. Not even work-study. How about Midd?

How about Colby since we all know who you are?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:SORRY parents of kids on these little LACs. NO your kid is NOT PART OF ANY IVY…..You can call it whatever you want. Pretend someone in the 50’s coined the term. Blablablablablabla.

Completely irrelevant. You are NOT and will NEVER BE Ivy. Sure, some SLACS are amazing, but STOP TRYING TO PRETEND YOU ARE SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE NOT.

This is unnecessarily aggressive, but I agree with the general thought. My kid goes to a “Public Ivy” but I would never use that term. It’s ridiculous and to me says that the user is aiming for the listener to be impressed

The user asked a question and it wasn’t about someone trying to create “false prestige” relative to 8 very different schools who happen to be in an athletic conference. The team “little Ivy” was coined at least 80 years ago, long before rankings became a thing. It was first used soon after the Ivy League itself was formed in 1954 and was specifically coined in reference to a set of schools who provided an education equal to the Ivies but were lesser known because of their size and focus on undergraduate education.

I know that it makes some people on DCUM butt hurt to be confronted with the fact that that before rise of the nonsense these schools were considered equal to the Ivies but they were. And, they still are for undergraduate education whether they want to admit it or not.

It's genuinely quaint listening to this debate, and I say this as someone who loved my time at Williams years ago. This entire 'Little Ivy' conversation is for people who have never had to compete for a deal or a meeting outside of the US. Go ahead, have your kid drop 'NESCAC champion' in a boardroom in Berlin and see how that goes.

My husband and I had the pleasure of working internationally for 25 years. Mycareer taught me the difference between a great school and a global brand. My HBS degree opened doors internationally that Williams simply couldn't. The 'Little Ivy' tag is a comforting fantasy for a domestic audience. Just an attempt to bridge a gap that, from my experience, is more of a chasm.

It's a simple lesson. A Williams degree is a key that opens some very important doors on the Eastern Seaboard. An Ivy League brand, whether we like to admit it or not, is a diplomatic passport that's recognized in every capital in the world. By all means, be proud of your key, but don't ever confuse it for a passport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Little Ivies are Dartmouth, Brown, and Columbia.

Certain Big 10 schools like Penn and Cornell sometimes claim to be Little Ivies, but really they belong in the Public Ivies category.

Hmmm