Two Jews (Peter Beinart and Jon Stewart) discuss Israel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Israeli soldier testified to Israeli Knesset that on October 7th 2023, the day of the Hamas attacks, troops were unexpectedly ordered to cancel all border patrols and stand down between 5:20 am and 9:00 a.m.

Several IDF soldiers have come out saying they needed answers on why their brigades were told stand down on the most heavily gaurded border in the world on the day of the Oct. 7th attack. Michael Flynn appeared on Steve Bannon's show and commented on the investigation of why the IDF was told to stand down and its slow response while the attack was occuring.

Prior to Oct. 7, Benjamin Netanyahu was facing a crumbling party coalition and a divided goverment and nation at the time that was at risk of dissolving.

Citation:

IDF has prior knowledge of an attack.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-1...de-af9e-6ffbdf700000


Netanyahu funded Hamas for Decades
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netan...own-up-in-our-faces/

Is the theory that he
a) knew about the coming attack
b) told IDF to stand down
so
c) the attack would happen
and
d) start a war
to
e) keep Netanyahu in power for longer?

Makes sense to me...

This isn't a theory, its a story. Here's another story. Hamas is letting Gazans be killed so they can play the long game spending years calling Israel a genocide, to sucker the world into joining together to destroy Israel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Israeli soldier testified to Israeli Knesset that on October 7th 2023, the day of the Hamas attacks, troops were unexpectedly ordered to cancel all border patrols and stand down between 5:20 am and 9:00 a.m.

Several IDF soldiers have come out saying they needed answers on why their brigades were told stand down on the most heavily gaurded border in the world on the day of the Oct. 7th attack. Michael Flynn appeared on Steve Bannon's show and commented on the investigation of why the IDF was told to stand down and its slow response while the attack was occuring.

Prior to Oct. 7, Benjamin Netanyahu was facing a crumbling party coalition and a divided goverment and nation at the time that was at risk of dissolving.

Citation:

IDF has prior knowledge of an attack.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-1...de-af9e-6ffbdf700000


Netanyahu funded Hamas for Decades
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netan...own-up-in-our-faces/

Is the theory that he
a) knew about the coming attack
b) told IDF to stand down
so
c) the attack would happen
and
d) start a war
to
e) keep Netanyahu in power for longer?

Makes sense to me...

This isn't a theory, its a story. Here's another story. Hamas is letting Gazans be killed so they can play the long game spending years calling Israel a genocide, to sucker the world into joining together to destroy Israel

Why would hamas be trying to broker an end to the war by giving up the hostages then? Why would Israel say no? It sounds pretty spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Israeli soldier testified to Israeli Knesset that on October 7th 2023, the day of the Hamas attacks, troops were unexpectedly ordered to cancel all border patrols and stand down between 5:20 am and 9:00 a.m.

Several IDF soldiers have come out saying they needed answers on why their brigades were told stand down on the most heavily gaurded border in the world on the day of the Oct. 7th attack. Michael Flynn appeared on Steve Bannon's show and commented on the investigation of why the IDF was told to stand down and its slow response while the attack was occuring.

Prior to Oct. 7, Benjamin Netanyahu was facing a crumbling party coalition and a divided goverment and nation at the time that was at risk of dissolving.

Citation:

IDF has prior knowledge of an attack.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-1...de-af9e-6ffbdf700000


Netanyahu funded Hamas for Decades
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netan...own-up-in-our-faces/

Is the theory that he
a) knew about the coming attack
b) told IDF to stand down
so
c) the attack would happen
and
d) start a war
to
e) keep Netanyahu in power for longer?

Makes sense to me...

This isn't a theory, its a story. Here's another story. Hamas is letting Gazans be killed so they can play the long game spending years calling Israel a genocide, to sucker the world into joining together to destroy Israel

All the facts disagee with you.

So are you:

1) a troll
2) a liar/zionist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Israeli soldier testified to Israeli Knesset that on October 7th 2023, the day of the Hamas attacks, troops were unexpectedly ordered to cancel all border patrols and stand down between 5:20 am and 9:00 a.m.

Several IDF soldiers have come out saying they needed answers on why their brigades were told stand down on the most heavily gaurded border in the world on the day of the Oct. 7th attack. Michael Flynn appeared on Steve Bannon's show and commented on the investigation of why the IDF was told to stand down and its slow response while the attack was occuring.

Prior to Oct. 7, Benjamin Netanyahu was facing a crumbling party coalition and a divided goverment and nation at the time that was at risk of dissolving.

Citation:

IDF has prior knowledge of an attack.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-1...de-af9e-6ffbdf700000


Netanyahu funded Hamas for Decades
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netan...own-up-in-our-faces/

Is the theory that he
a) knew about the coming attack
b) told IDF to stand down
so
c) the attack would happen
and
d) start a war
to
e) keep Netanyahu in power for longer?

Makes sense to me...

This isn't a theory, its a story. Here's another story. Hamas is letting Gazans be killed so they can play the long game spending years calling Israel a genocide, to sucker the world into joining together to destroy Israel

It’s mendacious to compare the Israeli Army to Hamas.

Israel is a sovereign nation and one of the few in the world with a nuclear arsenal. Hamas is a ragtag militia of the people of Gaza that have no sovereign rights.

Hamas does not control the borders of Gaza, nor their water, or their food. Israel controls it all. To compare the powerful Israeli Army that is backed by the US to the hilt to these irregulars is deceitful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Israeli soldier testified to Israeli Knesset that on October 7th 2023, the day of the Hamas attacks, troops were unexpectedly ordered to cancel all border patrols and stand down between 5:20 am and 9:00 a.m.

Several IDF soldiers have come out saying they needed answers on why their brigades were told stand down on the most heavily gaurded border in the world on the day of the Oct. 7th attack. Michael Flynn appeared on Steve Bannon's show and commented on the investigation of why the IDF was told to stand down and its slow response while the attack was occuring.

Prior to Oct. 7, Benjamin Netanyahu was facing a crumbling party coalition and a divided goverment and nation at the time that was at risk of dissolving.

Citation:

IDF has prior knowledge of an attack.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-1...de-af9e-6ffbdf700000


Netanyahu funded Hamas for Decades
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netan...own-up-in-our-faces/

Is the theory that he
a) knew about the coming attack
b) told IDF to stand down
so
c) the attack would happen
and
d) start a war
to
e) keep Netanyahu in power for longer?

Makes sense to me...

This isn't a theory, its a story. Here's another story. Hamas is letting Gazans be killed so they can play the long game spending years calling Israel a genocide, to sucker the world into joining together to destroy Israel

Why would hamas be trying to broker an end to the war by giving up the hostages then? Why would Israel say no? It sounds pretty spot on.

Hamas doesn't actually need Israel to say yes to release the hostages. They could just let them go at any time. They could NOT starve them and force them to dig their own graves on camera.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Israeli soldier testified to Israeli Knesset that on October 7th 2023, the day of the Hamas attacks, troops were unexpectedly ordered to cancel all border patrols and stand down between 5:20 am and 9:00 a.m.

Several IDF soldiers have come out saying they needed answers on why their brigades were told stand down on the most heavily gaurded border in the world on the day of the Oct. 7th attack. Michael Flynn appeared on Steve Bannon's show and commented on the investigation of why the IDF was told to stand down and its slow response while the attack was occuring.

Prior to Oct. 7, Benjamin Netanyahu was facing a crumbling party coalition and a divided goverment and nation at the time that was at risk of dissolving.

Citation:

IDF has prior knowledge of an attack.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-1...de-af9e-6ffbdf700000


Netanyahu funded Hamas for Decades
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netan...own-up-in-our-faces/

Is the theory that he
a) knew about the coming attack
b) told IDF to stand down
so
c) the attack would happen
and
d) start a war
to
e) keep Netanyahu in power for longer?

Makes sense to me...

This isn't a theory, its a story. Here's another story. Hamas is letting Gazans be killed so they can play the long game spending years calling Israel a genocide, to sucker the world into joining together to destroy Israel

Why would hamas be trying to broker an end to the war by giving up the hostages then? Why would Israel say no? It sounds pretty spot on.

Hamas doesn't actually need Israel to say yes to release the hostages. They could just let them go at any time. They could NOT starve them and force them to dig their own graves on camera.

And Israel could let food go to starving children.
At least hamas is feeding theirs. How sad that a terrorist group is more caring than Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Israeli soldier testified to Israeli Knesset that on October 7th 2023, the day of the Hamas attacks, troops were unexpectedly ordered to cancel all border patrols and stand down between 5:20 am and 9:00 a.m.

Several IDF soldiers have come out saying they needed answers on why their brigades were told stand down on the most heavily gaurded border in the world on the day of the Oct. 7th attack. Michael Flynn appeared on Steve Bannon's show and commented on the investigation of why the IDF was told to stand down and its slow response while the attack was occuring.

Prior to Oct. 7, Benjamin Netanyahu was facing a crumbling party coalition and a divided goverment and nation at the time that was at risk of dissolving.

Citation:

IDF has prior knowledge of an attack.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-1...de-af9e-6ffbdf700000


Netanyahu funded Hamas for Decades
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netan...own-up-in-our-faces/

Is the theory that he
a) knew about the coming attack
b) told IDF to stand down
so
c) the attack would happen
and
d) start a war
to
e) keep Netanyahu in power for longer?

Makes sense to me...

This isn't a theory, its a story. Here's another story. Hamas is letting Gazans be killed so they can play the long game spending years calling Israel a genocide, to sucker the world into joining together to destroy Israel

It’s mendacious to compare the Israeli Army to Hamas.

Israel is a sovereign nation and one of the few in the world with a nuclear arsenal. Hamas is a ragtag militia of the people of Gaza that have no sovereign rights.

Hamas does not control the borders of Gaza, nor their water, or their food. Israel controls it all. To compare the powerful Israeli Army that is backed by the US to the hilt to these irregulars is deceitful.

All of this. Is Hamas great? Of course not. But comparing the two is like comparing California, NY, and Texas all fighting a "war" against West Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

Not Jewish, but I love your Rabbi.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Israeli soldier testified to Israeli Knesset that on October 7th 2023, the day of the Hamas attacks, troops were unexpectedly ordered to cancel all border patrols and stand down between 5:20 am and 9:00 a.m.

Several IDF soldiers have come out saying they needed answers on why their brigades were told stand down on the most heavily gaurded border in the world on the day of the Oct. 7th attack. Michael Flynn appeared on Steve Bannon's show and commented on the investigation of why the IDF was told to stand down and its slow response while the attack was occuring.

Prior to Oct. 7, Benjamin Netanyahu was facing a crumbling party coalition and a divided goverment and nation at the time that was at risk of dissolving.

Citation:

IDF has prior knowledge of an attack.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-1...de-af9e-6ffbdf700000


Netanyahu funded Hamas for Decades
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netan...own-up-in-our-faces/

Is the theory that he
a) knew about the coming attack
b) told IDF to stand down
so
c) the attack would happen
and
d) start a war
to
e) keep Netanyahu in power for longer?

Makes sense to me...

This isn't a theory, its a story. Here's another story. Hamas is letting Gazans be killed so they can play the long game spending years calling Israel a genocide, to sucker the world into joining together to destroy Israel

Why would hamas be trying to broker an end to the war by giving up the hostages then? Why would Israel say no? It sounds pretty spot on.

Hamas doesn't actually need Israel to say yes to release the hostages. They could just let them go at any time. They could NOT starve them and force them to dig their own graves on camera.

And Israel could let food go to starving children.
At least hamas is feeding theirs. How sad that a terrorist group is more caring than Israel.

Ok, so this is why wars continue, because neither side wants to stop. So they will have to fight it out. Nothing else for us all to discuss here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Israeli soldier testified to Israeli Knesset that on October 7th 2023, the day of the Hamas attacks, troops were unexpectedly ordered to cancel all border patrols and stand down between 5:20 am and 9:00 a.m.

Several IDF soldiers have come out saying they needed answers on why their brigades were told stand down on the most heavily gaurded border in the world on the day of the Oct. 7th attack. Michael Flynn appeared on Steve Bannon's show and commented on the investigation of why the IDF was told to stand down and its slow response while the attack was occuring.

Prior to Oct. 7, Benjamin Netanyahu was facing a crumbling party coalition and a divided goverment and nation at the time that was at risk of dissolving.

Citation:

IDF has prior knowledge of an attack.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-1...de-af9e-6ffbdf700000


Netanyahu funded Hamas for Decades
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netan...own-up-in-our-faces/

Is the theory that he
a) knew about the coming attack
b) told IDF to stand down
so
c) the attack would happen
and
d) start a war
to
e) keep Netanyahu in power for longer?

Makes sense to me...

This isn't a theory, its a story. Here's another story. Hamas is letting Gazans be killed so they can play the long game spending years calling Israel a genocide, to sucker the world into joining together to destroy Israel

It’s mendacious to compare the Israeli Army to Hamas.

Israel is a sovereign nation and one of the few in the world with a nuclear arsenal. Hamas is a ragtag militia of the people of Gaza that have no sovereign rights.

Hamas does not control the borders of Gaza, nor their water, or their food. Israel controls it all. To compare the powerful Israeli Army that is backed by the US to the hilt to these irregulars is deceitful.

All of this. Is Hamas great? Of course not. But comparing the two is like comparing California, NY, and Texas all fighting a "war" against West Virginia.

Well then since Hamas is overpowered and losing this war it should give up and surrender to end the suffering. But now you are going to say we need to make it a "fair fight". No we (the U.S.) don't. That's is not in our best interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

Not Jewish, but I love your Rabbi.

What does Islam say about murder and rape and cleverness and lying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

Not Jewish, but I love your Rabbi.

What does Islam say about murder and rape and cleverness and lying?

Islam says that if you kill one person, it's as if you kill the whole of humanity.

But as with Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, and every religion, all religions are what people make it it. Good people wlll cling to the good parts of your faith. Bad people will cling to the bad parts. imho, what religion someone is or professes doesn't tell you anything. Good people exist in all religions, and awful people exist in all religions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

Not Jewish, but I love your Rabbi.

What does Islam say about murder and rape and cleverness and lying?

Islam says that if you kill one person, it's as if you kill the whole of humanity.

But as with Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, and every religion, all religions are what people make it it. Good people wlll cling to the good parts of your faith. Bad people will cling to the bad parts. imho, what religion someone is or professes doesn't tell you anything. Good people exist in all religions, and awful people exist in all religions.

Fine, so why are Jews being told to think about what other Jews do or think, being instructed here to watch videos of random Jews so they can "learn" something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

Not Jewish, but I love your Rabbi.

What does Islam say about murder and rape and cleverness and lying?

Islam says that if you kill one person, it's as if you kill the whole of humanity.

But as with Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, and every religion, all religions are what people make it it. Good people wlll cling to the good parts of your faith. Bad people will cling to the bad parts. imho, what religion someone is or professes doesn't tell you anything. Good people exist in all religions, and awful people exist in all religions.

Fine, so why are Jews being told to think about what other Jews do or think, being instructed here to watch videos of random Jews so they can "learn" something?

Dp, but maybe because sticking your head in the sand and ignoring reality is not beneficial?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

Not Jewish, but I love your Rabbi.

What does Islam say about murder and rape and cleverness and lying?

Islam says that if you kill one person, it's as if you kill the whole of humanity.

But as with Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, and every religion, all religions are what people make it it. Good people wlll cling to the good parts of your faith. Bad people will cling to the bad parts. imho, what religion someone is or professes doesn't tell you anything. Good people exist in all religions, and awful people exist in all religions.

Fine, so why are Jews being told to think about what other Jews do or think, being instructed here to watch videos of random Jews so they can "learn" something?

Man, you must have a hard time in life if you take every conversation that you lisen to as a proclomation of how you ought to think. Did you go to college? If so, how did you survive?