What typically happens to a violent kid in the classroom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless a lot of parents really make a stink about it, then nothing will happen. No doubt the teacher has tried repeatedly to get admin to take action, and they have refused. It's all too common.

Then teachers quit and turnover increases. Why would admin refuse to take action?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What has changed is that NOTHING happens to the violent kid.

When I started teaching 25 years ago, kids who tried to violently lash out and/or destroy a classroom were restrained and prevented from doing so. Then they were often suspended so their parents were motivated to deal with the issue. They weren't kept in a classroom for YEARS doing the same thing over and over again.

It is incomprehensible that we are allowing students whether they are 5 or 7 or 12 or 15 year the power to control the classroom, assault other students and staff, and if they please to destroy rooms and cause the entire class to evacuate the classroom. That is an insane level of power to give a kid. Many of these kids are pretty clever and realize there are no consequences. Everything is now based on positives.

The toll this is taking on both general ed. teachers and special education teachers is catastrophic. As more and more special ed teachers quit, there are fewer places to send violent students so they are in general ed. classes. General ed. teachers are getting burned out because they have to do too much and are tired of one or two really disruptive kids making teaching insufferable . Districts have realized they can save money by trying to include most students. Many of these students need a smaller teacher to staff ratio and those classes are disappearing.

There really aren't many jobs were you are expected to be hit, kicked, bit, spit on, and sworn at on a weekly or daily basis and then blamed for not doing enough. A 6 year old shoots a teacher and the school district response is - well that's to be expected, that's one of the dangers of teaching.

Then your workplace gets destroyed by one child as well and you aren't reimbursed for all the items you purchased with your own money and all the time you spent making the classroom a pleasing place.

Now add to that the trauma other students are witnessing on a DAILY basis. Imagine going to work with a co-worker who throws things at you when you are trying to work, will rip up the paper you just completed, who might attack you, yell profanities at you, cause you to have to evacuate your office two to three times a week. It is so sad to hear how happy kids are when the massive behavior problem kid isn't there. They sense their teacher is ecstatic as well.

If you are a parent who has a kid in this situation, sorry it most likely isn't going to get better. After my kid got hit in the head with a rock, had to evacuate his class once a week, and saw how stressed his teacher was I decided to move him mid-year to a private school. There were just way too many problem kids in his cohort that were sucking the life out of his classes.

How did your kid feel about the mid-year change?

I am in this situation and have already secured a spot for my DC at another school for a mid-year transfer. I have no idea if this is the right move. We could be in the same situation next year, with an increase in class size and an increase in students with behavioral issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"There doesn't seem to be any action"

How in the world would you know what action has or hasn't been taken?

My kid was that kid. BEGGED AND PLEADED for him to be removed to a special school. It never happened. By all means, bug the administration, I'm sure his parents don't want him to hurt other kids either.

what is his diagnosis?

I know there’s been no action because the student is in the classroom and my child continues to be hit.

No you don’t.
Maybe they set up an eligibility meeting, but it takes a month to set that up.
Maybe they instituted a new behavior plan and it’s not working.
Maybe they’re documenting new strategies to build a case for a different placement.
Maybe the kid is in the process of getting tested.

The school legally has to protect the child’s privacy, so there could be a whole kerfluffle behind the scenes and you wouldn’t know until next year when the kid is grouped with the special ed cluster. The process is s l o w.

My school's admin is saying it could take up to fourteen weeks to implement a plan to modify behavior for one student; six weeks alone to collect data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless a lot of parents really make a stink about it, then nothing will happen. No doubt the teacher has tried repeatedly to get admin to take action, and they have refused. It's all too common.

Then teachers quit and turnover increases. Why would admin refuse to take action?

It makes schools look bad to kick out kids. Like it’s the schools fault that so many kids are violent or have extreme psychiatric needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless a lot of parents really make a stink about it, then nothing will happen. No doubt the teacher has tried repeatedly to get admin to take action, and they have refused. It's all too common.

Then teachers quit and turnover increases. Why would admin refuse to take action?

Because they have bosses, who have bosses, who have bosses...and in the mix are school boards and taxpayers and politicians. And as you get further and further out you get a very low percentage of people who actually spend time in schools.

Americans have gotten to a place where it's easier to blame teachers and principals than it is to blame caregivers and families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What has changed is that NOTHING happens to the violent kid.

When I started teaching 25 years ago, kids who tried to violently lash out and/or destroy a classroom were restrained and prevented from doing so. Then they were often suspended so their parents were motivated to deal with the issue. They weren't kept in a classroom for YEARS doing the same thing over and over again.

It is incomprehensible that we are allowing students whether they are 5 or 7 or 12 or 15 year the power to control the classroom, assault other students and staff, and if they please to destroy rooms and cause the entire class to evacuate the classroom. That is an insane level of power to give a kid. Many of these kids are pretty clever and realize there are no consequences. Everything is now based on positives.

The toll this is taking on both general ed. teachers and special education teachers is catastrophic. As more and more special ed teachers quit, there are fewer places to send violent students so they are in general ed. classes. General ed. teachers are getting burned out because they have to do too much and are tired of one or two really disruptive kids making teaching insufferable . Districts have realized they can save money by trying to include most students. Many of these students need a smaller teacher to staff ratio and those classes are disappearing.

There really aren't many jobs were you are expected to be hit, kicked, bit, spit on, and sworn at on a weekly or daily basis and then blamed for not doing enough. A 6 year old shoots a teacher and the school district response is - well that's to be expected, that's one of the dangers of teaching.

Then your workplace gets destroyed by one child as well and you aren't reimbursed for all the items you purchased with your own money and all the time you spent making the classroom a pleasing place.

Now add to that the trauma other students are witnessing on a DAILY basis. Imagine going to work with a co-worker who throws things at you when you are trying to work, will rip up the paper you just completed, who might attack you, yell profanities at you, cause you to have to evacuate your office two to three times a week. It is so sad to hear how happy kids are when the massive behavior problem kid isn't there. They sense their teacher is ecstatic as well.

If you are a parent who has a kid in this situation, sorry it most likely isn't going to get better. After my kid got hit in the head with a rock, had to evacuate his class once a week, and saw how stressed his teacher was I decided to move him mid-year to a private school. There were just way too many problem kids in his cohort that were sucking the life out of his classes.

This doesn’t happen in the good public schools. You could have sent your child to one of those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless a lot of parents really make a stink about it, then nothing will happen. No doubt the teacher has tried repeatedly to get admin to take action, and they have refused. It's all too common.

Then teachers quit and turnover increases. Why would admin refuse to take action?

DP. Most administrators would rather lose good, experienced teachers than kick out the small handful of kids who are causing 90% of the problems.

[Anonymous]

Happened in ES, continuing on MS, many just hope for transit community that the parents will move. So far they haven’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You and the other parents need to become such a nuisance to the administration that the nuisance of actually dealing with the violent child is preferable for them.

This. Organized effort by the parents to make the school do something.

You also can get your child moved to a different classroom.

[Anonymous]

The excuses from special needs parents here is appalling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless a lot of parents really make a stink about it, then nothing will happen. No doubt the teacher has tried repeatedly to get admin to take action, and they have refused. It's all too common.

Then teachers quit and turnover increases. Why would admin refuse to take action?

Because they have bosses, who have bosses, who have bosses...and in the mix are school boards and taxpayers and politicians. And as you get further and further out you get a very low percentage of people who actually spend time in schools.

Americans have gotten to a place where it's easier to blame teachers and principals than it is to blame caregivers and families.

It always boils down to someone in this hierarchy chain has a sped kid. And many sped parents are the most selfish and entitled people who expect other people to care about their kids first. And excuse their kid's poor behaviors. And threaten to sue. And tell everyone else to go to private school. Other parents are not a-holes. Almost every normal parent has tried to be sympathetic but have reached their tolerance threshold after 100 or 1000 incidents.

And if you think your crazy kid is anonymous, parents who don't even know each other, meet at school functions, and inevitably talk about who the crazy kids are to let each other know who their kids should avoid like the plague. Even many teachers will confirm in private who the crazy kids are without naming them directly. Contrary to crazy parents' belief, public school is not a psych ward or rehab center, and people are sick of your kids and their craziness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has changed is that NOTHING happens to the violent kid.

When I started teaching 25 years ago, kids who tried to violently lash out and/or destroy a classroom were restrained and prevented from doing so. Then they were often suspended so their parents were motivated to deal with the issue. They weren't kept in a classroom for YEARS doing the same thing over and over again.

It is incomprehensible that we are allowing students whether they are 5 or 7 or 12 or 15 year the power to control the classroom, assault other students and staff, and if they please to destroy rooms and cause the entire class to evacuate the classroom. That is an insane level of power to give a kid. Many of these kids are pretty clever and realize there are no consequences. Everything is now based on positives.

The toll this is taking on both general ed. teachers and special education teachers is catastrophic. As more and more special ed teachers quit, there are fewer places to send violent students so they are in general ed. classes. General ed. teachers are getting burned out because they have to do too much and are tired of one or two really disruptive kids making teaching insufferable . Districts have realized they can save money by trying to include most students. Many of these students need a smaller teacher to staff ratio and those classes are disappearing.

There really aren't many jobs were you are expected to be hit, kicked, bit, spit on, and sworn at on a weekly or daily basis and then blamed for not doing enough. A 6 year old shoots a teacher and the school district response is - well that's to be expected, that's one of the dangers of teaching.

Then your workplace gets destroyed by one child as well and you aren't reimbursed for all the items you purchased with your own money and all the time you spent making the classroom a pleasing place.

Now add to that the trauma other students are witnessing on a DAILY basis. Imagine going to work with a co-worker who throws things at you when you are trying to work, will rip up the paper you just completed, who might attack you, yell profanities at you, cause you to have to evacuate your office two to three times a week. It is so sad to hear how happy kids are when the massive behavior problem kid isn't there. They sense their teacher is ecstatic as well.

If you are a parent who has a kid in this situation, sorry it most likely isn't going to get better. After my kid got hit in the head with a rock, had to evacuate his class once a week, and saw how stressed his teacher was I decided to move him mid-year to a private school. There were just way too many problem kids in his cohort that were sucking the life out of his classes.

This doesn’t happen in the good public schools. You could have sent your child to one of those.

You’re FOS. We’re at one of the best publics in NYC. A grade-repeating 5th grader, who is a full head taller and a full year older than the other kids, routinely loses his crap and punches other kids. He has a “behavioral” IEP in an inclusion room, and is behaving exactly as he did, in 4th, in 3rd. Our principal is generally fantastic but district policy precludes in-school suspension, expulsion, or transfer. He’s a monster but don’t worry, his slag mother posts proudly about how great he is, and she and daddy don’t join the class communication channels because they know their baby is going to be attacking other kids and even the gym teacher. This is his training, and when he tries the wrong one in a non-school setting the FAFO of it all will shock no one but his parents.

This is a FERPA/ed law and cultural problem. The school has best of the ages reviews and teachers, and strong admin. The parents know the IEP and “COVID was harder on him” gives enough to cover their unwillingness to handle their kid. There’s a shift on what some parents, even wealthy ones with every chance to try just about anything, feel they should do both for their child and for anything like a broader community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless a lot of parents really make a stink about it, then nothing will happen. No doubt the teacher has tried repeatedly to get admin to take action, and they have refused. It's all too common.

Then teachers quit and turnover increases. Why would admin refuse to take action?

Because they have bosses, who have bosses, who have bosses...and in the mix are school boards and taxpayers and politicians. And as you get further and further out you get a very low percentage of people who actually spend time in schools.

Americans have gotten to a place where it's easier to blame teachers and principals than it is to blame caregivers and families.

It always boils down to someone in this hierarchy chain has a sped kid. And many sped parents are the most selfish and entitled people who expect other people to care about their kids first. And excuse their kid's poor behaviors. And threaten to sue. And tell everyone else to go to private school. Other parents are not a-holes. Almost every normal parent has tried to be sympathetic but have reached their tolerance threshold after 100 or 1000 incidents.

And if you think your crazy kid is anonymous, parents who don't even know each other, meet at school functions, and inevitably talk about who the crazy kids are to let each other know who their kids should avoid like the plague. Even many teachers will confirm in private who the crazy kids are without naming them directly. Contrary to crazy parents' belief, public school is not a psych ward or rehab center, and people are sick of your kids and their craziness.

I just posted and this is true. Everyone knows and criticizes and over time, ostracizes out of a sense of powerlessness because even formal complaints don’t kick out a kid. Same excellent public, best in the area example: a boy routinely racially and sexually harassed a girl. The racial slurs trigger necessary district-level reporting and note to the superintendent and winds up as a data point somewhere with the NYC schools chancellor. Principal follows all the way up, meetings. Parents of the harasser are a gay couple, cry, get the boy into therapy, who determines he’s actually in need of an IEP because he is possibly on the spectrum. The attacked girl is also on the spectrum and in fact had her diagnosis years before and does not harass or attack anyone. She is also child to a gay couple. But his attacks plus modern family structure and d/x of convenience ultimately somehow trumped her modern family, preexisting dx, her status as the child who was just minding her own business.

Same sht different day. It comes down to parenting - not because parents can wave a wand, but because they can either feel compelled to attempt to seek solutions that stop their kid destroying other kids or not. They as a class choose not. I had an aunt with intellectual disabilities who, like me, was educated to the best of her ability in MCPS. It’s a culture shift where more is offloaded from families to teachers and it’s not a workable, collective solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has changed is that NOTHING happens to the violent kid.

When I started teaching 25 years ago, kids who tried to violently lash out and/or destroy a classroom were restrained and prevented from doing so. Then they were often suspended so their parents were motivated to deal with the issue. They weren't kept in a classroom for YEARS doing the same thing over and over again.

It is incomprehensible that we are allowing students whether they are 5 or 7 or 12 or 15 year the power to control the classroom, assault other students and staff, and if they please to destroy rooms and cause the entire class to evacuate the classroom. That is an insane level of power to give a kid. Many of these kids are pretty clever and realize there are no consequences. Everything is now based on positives.

The toll this is taking on both general ed. teachers and special education teachers is catastrophic. As more and more special ed teachers quit, there are fewer places to send violent students so they are in general ed. classes. General ed. teachers are getting burned out because they have to do too much and are tired of one or two really disruptive kids making teaching insufferable . Districts have realized they can save money by trying to include most students. Many of these students need a smaller teacher to staff ratio and those classes are disappearing.

There really aren't many jobs were you are expected to be hit, kicked, bit, spit on, and sworn at on a weekly or daily basis and then blamed for not doing enough. A 6 year old shoots a teacher and the school district response is - well that's to be expected, that's one of the dangers of teaching.

Then your workplace gets destroyed by one child as well and you aren't reimbursed for all the items you purchased with your own money and all the time you spent making the classroom a pleasing place.

Now add to that the trauma other students are witnessing on a DAILY basis. Imagine going to work with a co-worker who throws things at you when you are trying to work, will rip up the paper you just completed, who might attack you, yell profanities at you, cause you to have to evacuate your office two to three times a week. It is so sad to hear how happy kids are when the massive behavior problem kid isn't there. They sense their teacher is ecstatic as well.

If you are a parent who has a kid in this situation, sorry it most likely isn't going to get better. After my kid got hit in the head with a rock, had to evacuate his class once a week, and saw how stressed his teacher was I decided to move him mid-year to a private school. There were just way too many problem kids in his cohort that were sucking the life out of his classes.

This doesn’t happen in the good public schools. You could have sent your child to one of those.

They absolutely do happen in "good" public schools. They happened in my classroom in my good school to the point I had PTSD and had to quit. They happened in my bougie private school where people spend nearly 40K a year. This happens everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has changed is that NOTHING happens to the violent kid.

When I started teaching 25 years ago, kids who tried to violently lash out and/or destroy a classroom were restrained and prevented from doing so. Then they were often suspended so their parents were motivated to deal with the issue. They weren't kept in a classroom for YEARS doing the same thing over and over again.

It is incomprehensible that we are allowing students whether they are 5 or 7 or 12 or 15 year the power to control the classroom, assault other students and staff, and if they please to destroy rooms and cause the entire class to evacuate the classroom. That is an insane level of power to give a kid. Many of these kids are pretty clever and realize there are no consequences. Everything is now based on positives.

The toll this is taking on both general ed. teachers and special education teachers is catastrophic. As more and more special ed teachers quit, there are fewer places to send violent students so they are in general ed. classes. General ed. teachers are getting burned out because they have to do too much and are tired of one or two really disruptive kids making teaching insufferable . Districts have realized they can save money by trying to include most students. Many of these students need a smaller teacher to staff ratio and those classes are disappearing.

There really aren't many jobs were you are expected to be hit, kicked, bit, spit on, and sworn at on a weekly or daily basis and then blamed for not doing enough. A 6 year old shoots a teacher and the school district response is - well that's to be expected, that's one of the dangers of teaching.

Then your workplace gets destroyed by one child as well and you aren't reimbursed for all the items you purchased with your own money and all the time you spent making the classroom a pleasing place.

Now add to that the trauma other students are witnessing on a DAILY basis. Imagine going to work with a co-worker who throws things at you when you are trying to work, will rip up the paper you just completed, who might attack you, yell profanities at you, cause you to have to evacuate your office two to three times a week. It is so sad to hear how happy kids are when the massive behavior problem kid isn't there. They sense their teacher is ecstatic as well.

If you are a parent who has a kid in this situation, sorry it most likely isn't going to get better. After my kid got hit in the head with a rock, had to evacuate his class once a week, and saw how stressed his teacher was I decided to move him mid-year to a private school. There were just way too many problem kids in his cohort that were sucking the life out of his classes.

This doesn’t happen in the good public schools. You could have sent your child to one of those.

That’s not true at all. NP and my child goes to a private school that’s one of the ones people obsess over. And it happened in her classroom and took most of the school year to counsel the violent child out. It probably would have been a faster process at a public school. This is not a problem that exists only at “other” schools- it’s happening everywhere.