Is this an American mom thing or specific to my kids school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read everything, but in my experience British culture is a lot more accepting of negative emotionality (and much less accepting of positivity or anything that seems of bragging). I do think there’s a degree to which it is just social awkwardness of misfiring, but I think there’s a cultural component as well.

op - it's so interesting you say that because i have zero tolerance for bragging and struggle with how much it happens here. I've actually talked about this in therapy because I find it so triggering and it wasn't really an issue back in the UK because it's much less socially common (it obviously does happen but it's not as endemic). I do encounter people here of course who have a lot of humility despite having things to brag about, especially among people with really high social eq, but it's wild to me how many people straight up show off or tolerate this behavior. It's to me so antisocial and alienating and I'm unclear how you would forge a friendship with a person who wants you to experience a negative emotion.

PP and my totally amateur theory is it has to do with British class vs American class. Obviously class is real and exists in America as well as Britain, but it’s more flexible in the USA and also something you can sort of prove through for example by showing off. Whereas if you’re British you can’t become upper class or whatever by showing you have money or a good job, and it’s actually considered offensive (and disloyal) to try. I find the British approach charming in its own way but also sometimes baffling, and I don’t really think people should HIDE happiness either (which I feel can happen under British approach).

op - i think the difference is that in the uk you can't - as you say - buy class. Class is determined by how you interact with others. To an extent that's true here, but the nuance of british class is different.
Like the number one thing that you are taught at Eton or Rodean or wherever is humility, curiosity and empathy. How to intuit someone else's challenges, feelings and how to be respectful. Not respectful in the sense of like what fork to use or sayng stuff like 'ma'am' (never). But you are always when you speak to someone doing it in a way as to never try to seem 'better'. So if someone says 'I'm not very good at tennis'; even if you are amazing at tennis, if you are a brit, you'd say 'oh gosh I'm dreadful as well'. Whereas Americans might say 'oh i'm pretty good bc i practice a lot. Have you tried practicing more?' And the brit thinks 'what the actual f'. The brit is trying not to make the other person feel bad. So to the brit, the American by saying they ARE good and suggesting more practice is being super tone deaf. And hence the miscommunication.

DP but that's 100% not what PP is talking about. PP is talking about social classes, which are much more fixed in Britain, and you're talking about "classy behavior" which applies wherever (but, as this thread shows, is not identical behavior in every locale). The idea of "classy behavior" can be applied to rich and poor, but your definition of constantly downplaying yourself no matter the situation is not seen as the height of class here. Certainly bragging is rude but you seem extremely sensitive to it to the point that a person doing anything other than calling themselves and their kids dumbasses is a braggart. That's not the standard here. Going on and on about your kids' accomplishments is bragging, saying "she's so excited she made varsity" is not. Name dropping in every conversation is bragging, saying "I'm still not over my jetlag" when you had an important work trip is not. I don't want to have a conversation with someone new where my job frustrations come up and they commiserate about their terrible career trajectory only to find out they're on the short list for the Supreme Court, that's idiotic. And if finding out that someone got a promotion at work makes a Brit feel badly because they aren't loving their job at the moment, that is not the same as the promoted person "bragging" to put them down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y’all who are socially challenged: friendship is an emotional connections. When you respond with empathy, that’s an emotional response. When you respond by problem solving, you’re just making talk. If it’s received well, there might be some gratitude, which is a positive connection, but it’s small compared to being understood.

Some people spend their lives in circles of problem-solvers. Others form strong bonds with core friends. All are fine, but don’t look at the strong bond people and wonder “why am I not included.” Those people aren’t solving problems, nor do they want to in their limited free time. They want zero-battery friendships.

Lol most people I’ve met do both. You can be empathetic and then try to find a solution for your friend’s problem. They’re not mutually exclusive.

No, but those who only understand can still make friends. Those who only problem solve do not.

The flip side is those who do not problem solve at work do not get promoted.

Well if you meet people who are only capable of coldly offering advice you know they are not looking to make friends with you so move along. You’re not going to make friends with everyone you meet. But I find that people who cannot offer any sympathy are in the minority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y’all who are socially challenged: friendship is an emotional connections. When you respond with empathy, that’s an emotional response. When you respond by problem solving, you’re just making talk. If it’s received well, there might be some gratitude, which is a positive connection, but it’s small compared to being understood.

Some people spend their lives in circles of problem-solvers. Others form strong bonds with core friends. All are fine, but don’t look at the strong bond people and wonder “why am I not included.” Those people aren’t solving problems, nor do they want to in their limited free time. They want zero-battery friendships.

Lol most people I’ve met do both. You can be empathetic and then try to find a solution for your friend’s problem. They’re not mutually exclusive.

No, but those who only understand can still make friends. Those who only problem solve do not.

The flip side is those who do not problem solve at work do not get promoted.

Well if you meet people who are only capable of coldly offering advice you know they are not looking to make friends with you so move along. You’re not going to make friends with everyone you meet. But I find that people who cannot offer any sympathy are in the minority.

Most people with good social skills know that and they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm from the UK and I've found that one real barrier to making friends here (or rather to having deeper friendships) has been this one - what seems to be cultural - difference around sharing parenting challenges. In the UK it's tacitly understood for the most part that if you share something that's hard about parenting, unless you specifically ask, you're not looking for advice but more so solidarity or to laugh about it or just to share and feel less alone or incompetent. Among the moms at my kids school I find almost universally that if i share something that's hard, they give me advice. For me personally it's a real barrier to friendships bc a. I often don't need or want advice per se and b. it sort of stops any kind of bonding or even really conversation in its tracks.
Is this an american cultural thing where if someone shares something hard it's assumed they want input or is my school different in some way? would love to find a tribe that I can laugh about my kids imitating youtubers rather than hear a 15 minute diatribe on how someone else is crushing it with not letting this happen.

Americans are generally an impatient lot and are more likely to have a “quit your complaining or do something about it” mindset. And rightfully so.

No one likes a complainer.

Highly understanding and empathetic people can connect with complainers but usually the connection is one-way and friendships do not result.

So true. The type of friends who are just looking for emotional support and get offended by any suggestion of advice are often emotional vampires. I mean how dare you “make it about you” by offering advice through your personal experience!

[Anonymous]

I think everyone has encountered someone like this here and there, but I think it's strange that you're encountering it so consistently that you you think it's representative of an entire nation. I keep going back to the adage: if you meet one jerk in a day, you've met a jerk. If everyone you meet in a day is a jerk, then you're the jerk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone has encountered someone like this here and there, but I think it's strange that you're encountering it so consistently that you you think it's representative of an entire nation. I keep going back to the adage: if you meet one jerk in a day, you've met a jerk. If everyone you meet in a day is a jerk, then you're the jerk.

Eh, who makes the most effort to talk to the new moms at a private school? A few friendly souls and a lot of lonely souls. It could be situational.

OP: great moms at a privates can be found, but it might take a bit more time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm from the UK and I've found that one real barrier to making friends here (or rather to having deeper friendships) has been this one - what seems to be cultural - difference around sharing parenting challenges. In the UK it's tacitly understood for the most part that if you share something that's hard about parenting, unless you specifically ask, you're not looking for advice but more so solidarity or to laugh about it or just to share and feel less alone or incompetent. Among the moms at my kids school I find almost universally that if i share something that's hard, they give me advice. For me personally it's a real barrier to friendships bc a. I often don't need or want advice per se and b. it sort of stops any kind of bonding or even really conversation in its tracks.
Is this an american cultural thing where if someone shares something hard it's assumed they want input or is my school different in some way? would love to find a tribe that I can laugh about my kids imitating youtubers rather than hear a 15 minute diatribe on how someone else is crushing it with not letting this happen.

Americans are generally an impatient lot and are more likely to have a “quit your complaining or do something about it” mindset. And rightfully so.

No one likes a complainer.

Highly understanding and empathetic people can connect with complainers but usually the connection is one-way and friendships do not result.

So true. The type of friends who are just looking for emotional support and get offended by any suggestion of advice are often emotional vampires. I mean how dare you “make it about you” by offering advice through your personal experience!

I think most people in their free time are looking for a laugh, not to do more work. It’s not about taking turns. It’s about taking it easy.

[Anonymous]

I’ve noticed a lot of people defending advice-giving on this thread, but no one seems to be saying that they appreciate or have benefited from being the recipient of this kind of unsolicited advice.

[Anonymous]

I'm with you OP- this sort of unsolicited advice sounds very annoying - I know a few parents like this, but most of my friends would not be like this. Everything is not a crisis....life is what it is. Keep looking, there are people like you out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve noticed a lot of people defending advice-giving on this thread, but no one seems to be saying that they appreciate or have benefited from being the recipient of this kind of unsolicited advice.

NP but I’ve always appreciated the advice I have been given. Around how to get my younger child to potty train, what camps to send my older child too, etc. I don’t complain much bc my life is generally great. But when I do I am open to advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve noticed a lot of people defending advice-giving on this thread, but no one seems to be saying that they appreciate or have benefited from being the recipient of this kind of unsolicited advice.

I like getting advice if it's paired with empathy and an attempt to better understand the situation.

[Anonymous]

I seriously do not understand this take. Personally I think that the hoarding of information and resources is by far, for completely obvious reasons, the most competitive, uncaring and stuck-up thing a fellow mom could do. I have learned of so many wonderful products, services, events, and places to play for my children thanks to suggestions from both friends and random moms I got chatty with at the playground. I am completely free to ignore any suggestions that don’t suit. What an awful, cold world if people stop sharing ideas or information because they are too afraid that <i> their personal experience </i> will offend someone. If you are truly giving off “I’m floundering alone!” vibes, think about why that is.
If you are secure in your parenting, why does the “advice” bother you so much? Do you compare yourself to others often?

Seriously
“Oooh that sounds awesome, thanks so much! We’ll have to check it out.”
“Oh totally that thing is the best!”
“Oh yeah we tried that but it didn’t work. Maybe we’ll revisit it!”
“I know, everyone talks about that but it wasn’t for us.”
“Ohh okay thanks~!”

You can use any of the sentences above without having feelings about having to existentially defend your parenting or deciding that you’re so put off by this woman who would smile at you even though you’re a stranger, or ask you if you need help if you’ve fallen on the sidewalk instead of “politely” ignoring you.

[Anonymous]

Is stand up comedy complaining or is it entertaining and funny? If you’ve ever had a friend who gets it, who sees the humor in it, and whose ability to do both lightens the emotional load, you know how much you miss them when they’re not around.

If you’ve never had a friend like that, I’m sorry.

Understanding people can usually suss out if advice is also wanted. But people who are defensive about service giving or think their advice should be welcome for no reason other than they themselves wouldn’t be offended? You’re emotionally tone-deaf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is stand up comedy complaining or is it entertaining and funny? If you’ve ever had a friend who gets it, who sees the humor in it, and whose ability to do both lightens the emotional load, you know how much you miss them when they’re not around.

If you’ve never had a friend like that, I’m sorry.

Understanding people can usually suss out if advice is also wanted. But people who are defensive about service giving or think their advice should be welcome for no reason other than they themselves wouldn’t be offended? You’re emotionally tone-deaf.

Being emotionally tone-deaf, you have the unique ability to make a tired person’s day even more tiring while being oblivious to it.

[Anonymous]

op - i think emotionally tone deaf is the key here.

It's absolutely not nationwide and it's absolutely also not like british women can't be super annoying for MANY reasons. It's also not like someone cant say when good things happen to them. I've realized through this thread it's the empathy 'step'. I think because brits are so self deprecating, they less commonly forget the empathy step whereas more of the moms from my kids school just blow past it. That makes the conversation feel transactional and also alienating. It makes me not want to hang out with them. I'm sure they dont care that I dont want to hang out, but I care bc I'm kind of lonely a lot and miss having a mom I can see at drop off and laugh or commiserate about something with. I can google advice.