Landon Donovan was right

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One major difference between England and the US is the accessibility of professional academies. In England, it's much easier to join a professional academy, and if selected, participation is free. These academies offer a comprehensive 4-5 day-a-week schedule of training and matches, with the added benefit of playing against equally skilled or even stronger opponents. For example, London alone is home to over 10 professional academies.

This is it. More and better training available. Because the game is ingrained and can support multiple professional teams with academies. It's not because soccer is hard.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Every sport in USA is structured as hell, almost year-round play. There's no incentive to go out and play in the street when you have gaming inside and air conditioning. American youth is sucked up by four way more popular sports before a boy thinks of soccer after the age of 8. Girls gravitate to it because only basketball takes athletes away. Don't blame just the kids either... i see the sidelines heaving with heavy-set parents who very likey never usher their kids outside because they too sit on their phones all day.

i think everyone is trying to find fault when there is no fault. Soccer is just a fringe sport in America, it's just the way it is.

The facts are most boys would rather play basketball, baseball or football and it's likely because that's what one of their parents grew up playing or watched or whatever reason.

I agree with this. Our best athletes in the US are not choosing soccer. If we took our best athletes in the NBA and NFL and they played soccer throughout their lives, we would dominate.

It's not just that our best athletes are in the NBA and NFL. It's that all our best athletes are TRYING to be in the NBA and NFL. That 5'6'' kid whose body type would work great for soccer, but maybe not for basketball because they aren't very tall, is still playing basketball but their playing career ends in high school. Imagine if that 5'6'' kid didn't spend the first 15 years of their life trying to become a basketball player, and had started with soccer instead. Those are the players that we're missing out on because soccer isn't popular.

I call BS on this. More kids are playing organized soccer at some point than any other sport. The stats are over 3 million according to multiple sources - just above basketball. And twice as many as American football. The 5'6" kid gets pushed out of both sports and quits sports all together. His odds of going pro are slim in soccer, but they are microscopic in basketball. The problem is that at some point a short-sighted youth coach wanted to brag to his buddies about winning the U9 league and decided that the diminutive player didn't give him the best chance. This was Landon Donovan's whole point that started this thread.

We're also forgetting that most children can play high school baseball, basketball or football and still have a chance to play in college. The same can't be said for soccer, there is no free path to playing at the next level in soccer like there is in other sports.

So kids don't go from HS to college who play club soccer?

I think Pps point is that no one goes pro in soccer from college. A few do but that’s not the traditional path like it is for football and basketball

Not sure why people keep comparing the pathway to pro of soccer with other sports.
People have quit track & field as adults and transitioned to successful careers in the NFL.
People have doubled at being top performers in both baseball and football simultaneously.

That doesn't and can never exist in the soccer world.

Anyone doing that is displaying gross ignorance.

Neither have existed for years in football or baseball either. Deion Sanders was the last to make it work. I can't even think of the last track star to try and play wide reciever

Devon Allen
2 time Olympic Hurdler and Philadelphia Eagles Wide Receiver

Opinions aren't facts my friend

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleDe02.htm

Real great career there, really making it work. His entire NFL career was a kick return

So he didn't run hurdles and also play in the NFL?

Okay, how about
Marquise Brown
Lamar Jackson
Devin Duvernay
Stefon Diggs
Ja'Marr Chase
Marquise Goodwin
Denzel Ward
Tyreek Hill
Jalen Ramsey
Etc etc etc

PP said pro. There are plenty of US soccer players who played other sports in high school and college, just like your list

These are NFL players. The top of their professional sport.
They focused heavily on another sport through high school and some through college and Still made it to the Top of their professional sport.

I would like you to put out a list of professional soccer players in the top 4 European leagues that doubled in different sports until 18 or 21

And there are MLS players who played other sports in high school in college. No one one your list played another sport professionally Europe doesn't have scholastic sports like the US.

😆 🤣
This goes back to the argument that soccer isn't specialized and any good athlete can do it at the highest level.
It was pointed out soccer is different.

However, there are no top soccer professionals (you are clowning with the MLS reference) that got to the top while focused on another sport whether amateur or professional.

Because you can't

If the NBA or NFL felt academies were economical, you'd have the same pathway here. Europe deciding 7 is a good age to specialize doesn't mean those kids couldn't easily do something on the side if their employer would let them

No you would not. That would be a disaster in both sports. No one would go. You don't know what you have with either sport until junior year of high school. An offensive lineman for Alabama and future 1st round draft pick may not be all that as a high school freshman. QBs really need to be tall. Lots of boys fo not hit final spurt until junior year. A great 5'8'' QB is nothing. Same kid at 6'1'' -- you can work with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One major difference between England and the US is the accessibility of professional academies. In England, it's much easier to join a professional academy, and if selected, participation is free. These academies offer a comprehensive 4-5 day-a-week schedule of training and matches, with the added benefit of playing against equally skilled or even stronger opponents. For example, London alone is home to over 10 professional academies.

You get signed to professional academies at 8 and 9 years old in England after being scouted.
You don't just join

It is hard as hell to get in at U8 and only gets harder each above age group to join/stay.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Every sport in USA is structured as hell, almost year-round play. There's no incentive to go out and play in the street when you have gaming inside and air conditioning. American youth is sucked up by four way more popular sports before a boy thinks of soccer after the age of 8. Girls gravitate to it because only basketball takes athletes away. Don't blame just the kids either... i see the sidelines heaving with heavy-set parents who very likey never usher their kids outside because they too sit on their phones all day.

i think everyone is trying to find fault when there is no fault. Soccer is just a fringe sport in America, it's just the way it is.

The facts are most boys would rather play basketball, baseball or football and it's likely because that's what one of their parents grew up playing or watched or whatever reason.

I agree with this. Our best athletes in the US are not choosing soccer. If we took our best athletes in the NBA and NFL and they played soccer throughout their lives, we would dominate.

It's not just that our best athletes are in the NBA and NFL. It's that all our best athletes are TRYING to be in the NBA and NFL. That 5'6'' kid whose body type would work great for soccer, but maybe not for basketball because they aren't very tall, is still playing basketball but their playing career ends in high school. Imagine if that 5'6'' kid didn't spend the first 15 years of their life trying to become a basketball player, and had started with soccer instead. Those are the players that we're missing out on because soccer isn't popular.

I call BS on this. More kids are playing organized soccer at some point than any other sport. The stats are over 3 million according to multiple sources - just above basketball. And twice as many as American football. The 5'6" kid gets pushed out of both sports and quits sports all together. His odds of going pro are slim in soccer, but they are microscopic in basketball. The problem is that at some point a short-sighted youth coach wanted to brag to his buddies about winning the U9 league and decided that the diminutive player didn't give him the best chance. This was Landon Donovan's whole point that started this thread.

We're also forgetting that most children can play high school baseball, basketball or football and still have a chance to play in college. The same can't be said for soccer, there is no free path to playing at the next level in soccer like there is in other sports.

So kids don't go from HS to college who play club soccer?

I think Pps point is that no one goes pro in soccer from college. A few do but that’s not the traditional path like it is for football and basketball

Not sure why people keep comparing the pathway to pro of soccer with other sports.
People have quit track & field as adults and transitioned to successful careers in the NFL.
People have doubled at being top performers in both baseball and football simultaneously.

That doesn't and can never exist in the soccer world.

Anyone doing that is displaying gross ignorance.

Neither have existed for years in football or baseball either. Deion Sanders was the last to make it work. I can't even think of the last track star to try and play wide reciever

Devon Allen
2 time Olympic Hurdler and Philadelphia Eagles Wide Receiver

Opinions aren't facts my friend

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleDe02.htm

Real great career there, really making it work. His entire NFL career was a kick return

So he didn't run hurdles and also play in the NFL?

Okay, how about
Marquise Brown
Lamar Jackson
Devin Duvernay
Stefon Diggs
Ja'Marr Chase
Marquise Goodwin
Denzel Ward
Tyreek Hill
Jalen Ramsey
Etc etc etc

PP said pro. There are plenty of US soccer players who played other sports in high school and college, just like your list

These are NFL players. The top of their professional sport.
They focused heavily on another sport through high school and some through college and Still made it to the Top of their professional sport.

I would like you to put out a list of professional soccer players in the top 4 European leagues that doubled in different sports until 18 or 21

And there are MLS players who played other sports in high school in college. No one one your list played another sport professionally Europe doesn't have scholastic sports like the US.

😆 🤣
This goes back to the argument that soccer isn't specialized and any good athlete can do it at the highest level.
It was pointed out soccer is different.

However, there are no top soccer professionals (you are clowning with the MLS reference) that got to the top while focused on another sport whether amateur or professional.

Because you can't

If the NBA or NFL felt academies were economical, you'd have the same pathway here. Europe deciding 7 is a good age to specialize doesn't mean those kids couldn't easily do something on the side if their employer would let them

No you would not. That would be a disaster in both sports. No one would go. You don't know what you have with either sport until junior year of high school. An offensive lineman for Alabama and future 1st round draft pick may not be all that as a high school freshman. QBs really need to be tall. Lots of boys fo not hit final spurt until junior year. A great 5'8'' QB is nothing. Same kid at 6'1'' -- you can work with.

Academies are the only dominant to professional soccer in Europe. If the NBA or NFL wanted to emulate that model and geared their development towards incorporating academy graduates onto rosters, it would work. European basketball clubs already follow that model

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Every sport in USA is structured as hell, almost year-round play. There's no incentive to go out and play in the street when you have gaming inside and air conditioning. American youth is sucked up by four way more popular sports before a boy thinks of soccer after the age of 8. Girls gravitate to it because only basketball takes athletes away. Don't blame just the kids either... i see the sidelines heaving with heavy-set parents who very likey never usher their kids outside because they too sit on their phones all day.

i think everyone is trying to find fault when there is no fault. Soccer is just a fringe sport in America, it's just the way it is.

The facts are most boys would rather play basketball, baseball or football and it's likely because that's what one of their parents grew up playing or watched or whatever reason.

I agree with this. Our best athletes in the US are not choosing soccer. If we took our best athletes in the NBA and NFL and they played soccer throughout their lives, we would dominate.

It's not just that our best athletes are in the NBA and NFL. It's that all our best athletes are TRYING to be in the NBA and NFL. That 5'6'' kid whose body type would work great for soccer, but maybe not for basketball because they aren't very tall, is still playing basketball but their playing career ends in high school. Imagine if that 5'6'' kid didn't spend the first 15 years of their life trying to become a basketball player, and had started with soccer instead. Those are the players that we're missing out on because soccer isn't popular.

I call BS on this. More kids are playing organized soccer at some point than any other sport. The stats are over 3 million according to multiple sources - just above basketball. And twice as many as American football. The 5'6" kid gets pushed out of both sports and quits sports all together. His odds of going pro are slim in soccer, but they are microscopic in basketball. The problem is that at some point a short-sighted youth coach wanted to brag to his buddies about winning the U9 league and decided that the diminutive player didn't give him the best chance. This was Landon Donovan's whole point that started this thread.

We're also forgetting that most children can play high school baseball, basketball or football and still have a chance to play in college. The same can't be said for soccer, there is no free path to playing at the next level in soccer like there is in other sports.

So kids don't go from HS to college who play club soccer?

I think Pps point is that no one goes pro in soccer from college. A few do but that’s not the traditional path like it is for football and basketball

Not sure why people keep comparing the pathway to pro of soccer with other sports.
People have quit track & field as adults and transitioned to successful careers in the NFL.
People have doubled at being top performers in both baseball and football simultaneously.

That doesn't and can never exist in the soccer world.

Anyone doing that is displaying gross ignorance.

Neither have existed for years in football or baseball either. Deion Sanders was the last to make it work. I can't even think of the last track star to try and play wide reciever

Devon Allen
2 time Olympic Hurdler and Philadelphia Eagles Wide Receiver

Opinions aren't facts my friend

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleDe02.htm

Real great career there, really making it work. His entire NFL career was a kick return

So he didn't run hurdles and also play in the NFL?

Okay, how about
Marquise Brown
Lamar Jackson
Devin Duvernay
Stefon Diggs
Ja'Marr Chase
Marquise Goodwin
Denzel Ward
Tyreek Hill
Jalen Ramsey
Etc etc etc

This pretty much proves the opposite point from the one you're trying to make. The fact that these top athletes chose to play football and track simultaneously doesn't mean that they couldn't have played soccer at a high level, it shows that they chose not to. Because it's not a primary sport in America.

No idiot.
It proves those sports are not specialized enough nor requires enough unique skills that they can't be both accomplished at the highest levels.

How da heck does it prove they could play soccer for Real Madrid?

Name calling? Nice. It doesn't prove that those individuals could play for Real Madrid. It proves that the most athletic Americans choose sports other than soccer. You're right your sport is very special.

It’s not just the most athletic kids choosing other sports. Those are also the kids who have the drive and mental qualities necessary to be a pro in any sport. Most of them won’t make it in those sports but it diverts a large number of possible players who could have maybe made it in soccer. Bottom line: we need a lot more of these kids playing soccer at young ages

Its obvious as the nose on your face, or should be, that quantity of kids playing isn't our issue.
Iceland, Georgia (the country) etc makes that quite clear.

Its the quality of development and culture plus collective knowledge of coaches and parents. To start.

It's the quality of players not the total number. Within any population there is only going to be some small percentage who are even capable of being developed into top tier players. In Iceland and Georgia, almost all the people in that group are playing soccer. In the US, almost none of them are.

Millions of kids are playing soccer in America and Millions join every year.
The player cards and registration numbers don't lie.

Not to mention the smaller non registered to State associations kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with soccer in our country is that coaches at "top" clubs think that they need big and tall kids to win. They remove all creativity from the players. Possession, possession is all they say. The minute the players dribble or get creative they are taken out only to be told not to do that again. I have seen this at Bethesda, Potomac, SYC, etc. We have the worse teachers of soccer coaching and suppressing all creativity and talent. They promote win win at all cost. Cost of development. Most directors of these clubs have been trained in the same ineffective soccer philosophy. It will take a long time to change this culture. Then, add the $$ component to travel $occer and there you have it.

Could have stopped at your first sentence.
The focus on winning at early ages.
Instead of teaching and developing.
Their egos come first for the 'W'

Granted, the majority don't have the knowledge and experience to teach development properly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One major difference between England and the US is the accessibility of professional academies. In England, it's much easier to join a professional academy, and if selected, participation is free. These academies offer a comprehensive 4-5 day-a-week schedule of training and matches, with the added benefit of playing against equally skilled or even stronger opponents. For example, London alone is home to over 10 professional academies.

This is it. More and better training available. Because the game is ingrained and can support multiple professional teams with academies. It's not because soccer is hard.

I cover these topics extensively at https://thefootballscholar.com as a father of a professional footballer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with soccer in our country is that coaches at "top" clubs think that they need big and tall kids to win. They remove all creativity from the players. Possession, possession is all they say. The minute the players dribble or get creative they are taken out only to be told not to do that again. I have seen this at Bethesda, Potomac, SYC, etc. We have the worse teachers of soccer coaching and suppressing all creativity and talent. They promote win win at all cost. Cost of development. Most directors of these clubs have been trained in the same ineffective soccer philosophy. It will take a long time to change this culture. Then, add the $$ component to travel $occer and there you have it.

Could have stopped at your first sentence.
The focus on winning at early ages.
Instead of teaching and developing.
Their egos come first for the 'W'

Granted, the majority don't have the knowledge and experience to teach development properly.

The majority don't care about developing professional players because the majority know it won't be their player. My kids will play through high school. The want to go to large universities, so college is out. TThey like winning and play for a team were most of their teammates are competitive and want to win. Even scarier, their high school coach only cares about winning. If that takes their odds of playing at a higher level from 0% down to 0%, so be it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One major difference between England and the US is the accessibility of professional academies. In England, it's much easier to join a professional academy, and if selected, participation is free. These academies offer a comprehensive 4-5 day-a-week schedule of training and matches, with the added benefit of playing against equally skilled or even stronger opponents. For example, London alone is home to over 10 professional academies.

You get signed to professional academies at 8 and 9 years old in England after being scouted.
You don't just join

It is hard as hell to get in at U8 and only gets harder each above age group to join/stay.

That's correct about the terminology. Initially, players are invited by a club to development centers or centreof excellence, known as the pre-academy, from ages U6 to U8. A select few are then signed to the U9 level. While it's true that many aspire to join, only around 18 players per club are signed at U9 each season, making it a highly competitive process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with soccer in our country is that coaches at "top" clubs think that they need big and tall kids to win. They remove all creativity from the players. Possession, possession is all they say. The minute the players dribble or get creative they are taken out only to be told not to do that again. I have seen this at Bethesda, Potomac, SYC, etc. We have the worse teachers of soccer coaching and suppressing all creativity and talent. They promote win win at all cost. Cost of development. Most directors of these clubs have been trained in the same ineffective soccer philosophy. It will take a long time to change this culture. Then, add the $$ component to travel $occer and there you have it.

Could have stopped at your first sentence.
The focus on winning at early ages.
Instead of teaching and developing.
Their egos come first for the 'W'

Granted, the majority don't have the knowledge and experience to teach development properly.

The majority don't care about developing professional players because the majority know it won't be their player. My kids will play through high school. The want to go to large universities, so college is out. TThey like winning and play for a team were most of their teammates are competitive and want to win. Even scarier, their high school coach only cares about winning. If that takes their odds of playing at a higher level from 0% down to 0%, so be it.

When you aren't developed at younger ages, then what tools are in your toolbox to win/contribute to winning?

You're just a on a team who's stronger players earn the win and carry the rest to the medals stand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One major difference between England and the US is the accessibility of professional academies. In England, it's much easier to join a professional academy, and if selected, participation is free. These academies offer a comprehensive 4-5 day-a-week schedule of training and matches, with the added benefit of playing against equally skilled or even stronger opponents. For example, London alone is home to over 10 professional academies.

You get signed to professional academies at 8 and 9 years old in England after being scouted.
You don't just join

It is hard as hell to get in at U8 and only gets harder each above age group to join/stay.

Correct, and they can dismiss you whenever they want. I believe it is somewhere around 7 percent of kids who have been patt of a UK football academy who play professionally at any level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently when down an internet rabbit hole to understand why the US doesn't have better soccer players. The most interesting theory, that I think is likely on point, is that soccer in the US is too structured. Kids only play in leagues but don't play in organic street games like they do in many parts of the world. It's in those informal settings that kids develop the best skills. Think of basketball in the US - many of the top players grew up playing in their streets or neighborhood courts, they weren't shuttled around every weekend to be coached.

Messi has recently spoken out on his disappointment (now that his kids are in the US system). He said they want them to pass as soon as the ball hits their foot. He said he did not develop this way and never would have reached the heights he did.

US is obsessed with doing one touch tiki taka at the youngest of ages. And on winning for the sake of development at the youngest ages.

Nobody understands tiki taka. There are so many clubs, professional and youth, that poorly-use the Michels-Cruyff models.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with soccer in our country is that coaches at "top" clubs think that they need big and tall kids to win. They remove all creativity from the players. Possession, possession is all they say. The minute the players dribble or get creative they are taken out only to be told not to do that again. I have seen this at Bethesda, Potomac, SYC, etc. We have the worse teachers of soccer coaching and suppressing all creativity and talent. They promote win win at all cost. Cost of development. Most directors of these clubs have been trained in the same ineffective soccer philosophy. It will take a long time to change this culture. Then, add the $$ component to travel $occer and there you have it.

Some clubs for sure this is true still.

But this approach has been fading out at the top tier of Us soccer for better part of 2 decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One major difference between England and the US is the accessibility of professional academies. In England, it's much easier to join a professional academy, and if selected, participation is free. These academies offer a comprehensive 4-5 day-a-week schedule of training and matches, with the added benefit of playing against equally skilled or even stronger opponents. For example, London alone is home to over 10 professional academies.

Yet….England only has 1 World Cup win, and has a fan base that is as hemroidic about their national team as the US is about ours.

The reality is much more complex. The EPL is 2/3 foreign. The vast majority of English academy players never make the pros despite the ubiquitous nature of football in England. “Street soccer” that was credited for developing Dutch, Spanish, English, Brazilian and Argentinian greats is increasingly rare in those countries (see what happened to Xavi’s neighborhood pitch and community for example).

There isn’t a one size fits all solutions. These geographic pockets of talent and greatness are off their own time and place, and just like a hot stock tip - once everyone knows it - its value evaporates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with soccer in our country is that coaches at "top" clubs think that they need big and tall kids to win. They remove all creativity from the players. Possession, possession is all they say. The minute the players dribble or get creative they are taken out only to be told not to do that again. I have seen this at Bethesda, Potomac, SYC, etc. We have the worse teachers of soccer coaching and suppressing all creativity and talent. They promote win win at all cost. Cost of development. Most directors of these clubs have been trained in the same ineffective soccer philosophy. It will take a long time to change this culture. Then, add the $$ component to travel $occer and there you have it.

Could have stopped at your first sentence.
The focus on winning at early ages.
Instead of teaching and developing.
Their egos come first for the 'W'

Granted, the majority don't have the knowledge and experience to teach development properly.

Coaches can’t teach possession properly because players do not have the technical skills to execute possession play properly. And based on the threads, many parents don’t really understand what possession is.

Possession is not only quick passes, it’s continuing to possess and move the ball (eg, dribble long, quick dribble and pass, 1 v 1) and frankly, there are not many players who can quickly decide to do something else and execute it under pressure. If a players go-to is to dribble all the time, telling that player to stop is not stifling their creativity, it’s forcing them to think of other options.

Because coaches and parents want to win, even players with the technical skills don’t have the opportunity to make mistakes and learn to use their skills under pressure. They always use their safest option (quick pass or boot) or their go to (like dribbling).

It’s maddening that parents keep their kids on winning teams when their players aren’t learning anything new or getting better.