Is the US health system collapsing?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Lots of people go overseas for cheaper care, and that includes Americans.

https://www.magazine.medicaltourism.com/article/top-10-medical-tourism-destinations-world

Canada and the UK are on the list of countries people go to for medical care. Non residents would pay out of pocket, of course, so they don't use the national care service.

US is not on the list. Most people in the world cannot afford American medical prices.

https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/top-5-medical-tourism-destinations-in-the-world-1176780/5/

This one lists in order from the first link (Medical tourism link)
1. Canada
2. Singapore
3. Japan
4. Spain
5. UK

Example of hip replacement surgery in different countries (hint: US is the most expensive; UK is less than half the cost of the US, and India is the cheapest):

https://www.medicaltourismco.com/hip-replacement-surgery-abroad/


How do you get follow up care if you have a hip replacement or other procedure abroad? I'm part of the "if anything can go wrong it will go wrong" category of patients.

Typically, medical tourists recover and stay in that country a bit longer until they are fully recovered.

Harder to do in the more expensive countries like Canada and UK.

I think if you go to cheaper countries, there are medical care packages you can buy. It covers the cost of the medical treatment, stay at a place where you can recover and you get care.

*If* something happens months later, I guess you have to go back or try to find a US doctor who will deal with it (most probably won't due to malpractice).

But, when you don't have the money for medical care, you are going to take that small risk of something happening to get that care that you can afford.


When complications arise when patients return to the US, they appear in ERs and doctors are not happy about being faced with someone else's mess. Probably more with people who go to Mexico since part of the idea is likely not have to spend money on boht travel and extended stay in another country.




This is the typical scare tactic to dissuade people from traveling abroad for much cheaper medical care, how is that any different than in the U.S.? If I get a hip replacement done by a crappy surgeon in California, move to Virginia, and then need to go to the EE because of the crappy surgery, the ER doc in VA is still going to be dealing with crappy work left behind by a doctor far away.


American doctors think they’re the best in the world and that the rest of the world is incapable of training just as good physicians. What a farce. Typical dumb scare tactics used to convince Americans they should keep paying 10-1000x more for the same procedures that are done elsewhere in the world at just as good if not better standards than what you get here.


This. The difference in cost isn't because our doctors or equipment are better, it's due to many factors.

1) Doctors have to make enough to compensate for huge student debt and many years of not earning enough to pay it off. Otherwise nobody will be going into medical profession
2) Insurance companies are not non-profits and will be looking out to maximize returns.
3) Big Pharma and medical equipment industry will lobby hard to get their products pushed to general public and incentivize medical professionals to give them to patients. This may not often be in patient's interests due to high prices or drugs/equipment later proven to be unsafe.
4) Malpractice insurance is very costly here and doesn't exist overseas. If someone screws up your surgery overseas, can you sue?
5) Not every hospital can turn away uninsured, some have to take in patients who are expensive to treat and will never pay. This cost is prorated to the paying customers in the form of exorbitant and irrational fees for the same procedures/meds provided in other clinics and urgent care centers for a fraction of the cost.
6) Big hospital systems have huge admin overheads and dont' care to compete on prices with smaller clinics or radiology centers.
7) hospital rooms cost more than 5 star hotels and this doesn't include care



These are standard insurance industry talking points. PP, are you affiliated with an insurance company of payer.

Nope. Not at all. I would never advocate for insurance industry and our entire healthcare clusterf**k. I Had stated this in point (2) .
This doesn't negate issues with Hospital systems and Big Pharma I observe directly as a consumer.

I've had private health insurance and high deductible corporate plans. I've had to fight multiple claims and a couple of these lasted for years to avoid paying many thousands hospitals/insurance said I owed when they change things around with their network contracts. I am not a fan.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:On the positive note I think the US health care is good for Trauma care.
If I was in bad car accident, getting a heart attack or stroke I would like to be here.


Only I hear praising US healthcare is uninsured going to ERs


And how do we pay for treating uninsured? Why does anything simple done in the ER setting cost multiples of what it costs in an urgent care clinic?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:On the positive note I think the US health care is good for Trauma care.
If I was in bad car accident, getting a heart attack or stroke I would like to be here.


Only I hear praising US healthcare is uninsured going to ERs


I think most people with real emergency will appreciate the organized US health care system starting from 911 call center followed by speedy ambulance to the hospital health care team that shows a sense of urgency and professionalism.
The cost of care is another matter.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:On the positive note I think the US health care is good for Trauma care.
If I was in bad car accident, getting a heart attack or stroke I would like to be here.


Only I hear praising US healthcare is uninsured going to ERs


And how do we pay for treating uninsured? Why does anything simple done in the ER setting cost multiples of what it costs in an urgent care clinic?


People with insurance by paying higher premiums and fees subsidize people without insurance coverage.
Anonymous
* If the uninsured doesn’t pay cash for services.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:On the positive note I think the US health care is good for Trauma care.
If I was in bad car accident, getting a heart attack or stroke I would like to be here.


Only I hear praising US healthcare is uninsured going to ERs


And how do we pay for treating uninsured? Why does anything simple done in the ER setting cost multiples of what it costs in an urgent care clinic?


If you ask Isaac Mizrahi to make a kitchen apron, you're still going to be paying Isaac Mizrahi prices, not WalMart.

You are paying for the people and the equipment you are using. An Uber is a car. An ambulance is extremely expensive equipment with extremely well-trained personnel, and that access is going to be a high cost even if you are using it like an Uber.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:After some very complicated issues involving a family member I started following a subreddit for doctors and other healthcare professionals. They are highly critical of the situation with healthcare--mostly US but foreign docs chime in as well, sometimes to report what's bad where they are, other times to express their sympathy to docs working in the US.

Issues include corporatization of medicine such as huge mergers and vertical integration (United Health Group being an example), private equity (buying hospitals only to loot them--like the woman in Boston who died postpartum because the medical device to remove a blood clot in her liver had been repossessed), administration demands, treating healthcare like customer service, and also problems with patient populations (sometimes fed up with them, sometimes pointing to social determinants and other factors that affect patients). Also the politics relating to pregnancy and abortion and transgender care.

They fairly consistently say that the system is crashing or has crashed but not acknowledged. I wonder what the lay public (especially the well-informed public) thinks of all this--is it falling apart? If you think so, is it because of stuff you have personally dealt with or stuff on a larger scale you have read about (e.g. investigations of large insurers for Medicare advantage fraud, antitrust investigations starting with regard to private equity, other news related to healthcare).



Healthcare is about to get way cheaper as doctors are replaced with AI. Most doctors (not talking about surgeons) don’t do anything more than order tests based on symptoms and other test results and then prescribe a medication or treatment plan based on those.
Anonymous
Fair enough. Glad you have the option and will be first in line for medical AI. Have at it!
Anonymous
Read up on banks and private equity buying up healthcare. It is utter ruination. They have zero incentive to negotiate while max incentive to charge as high as possible to maximize profits for shareholders.

I’m sorry, but US healthcare is absolutely fooked at the rate banks and PE are gobbling up HC. Retiring in the US isn’t a viable plan anymore due to HC.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:On the positive note I think the US health care is good for Trauma care.
If I was in bad car accident, getting a heart attack or stroke I would like to be here.


Only I hear praising US healthcare is uninsured going to ERs


Yeah, because they get their bills taken care of.

My brother doesn't have insurance. He's an alcoholic with gout who is prone to cellulitis at least once a year that hospitalizes him.

He gets a form with each discharge where he submits his meager W2 from the last tax year to prove he's uninsured and poor. He'll then get a letter from the hospital that the bill has been forgiven.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Read up on banks and private equity buying up healthcare. It is utter ruination. They have zero incentive to negotiate while max incentive to charge as high as possible to maximize profits for shareholders.

I’m sorry, but US healthcare is absolutely fooked at the rate banks and PE are gobbling up HC. Retiring in the US isn’t a viable plan anymore due to HC.


If you look at traditional industries that were a bull work of American society and are now going to hell, the odds are good that private equity is a reason. Local news (national news now too), healthcare, education, even retail are all being ruined by PE. Modestly profitable companies don't stand a chance when they are loaded down with the debt used to purchase them, management fees are extracted, and a nice dividend for the fund holders. The PE firms make their money, their investors may or may not, and the companies are bled dry
Anonymous
Today I saw a Facebook story posted by a family of doctors that we know where they are flying overseas with 4 of their children (6 total) all in the first class. This is their fourth or fifth European vacation in the past year. All 4 kids go to a private school. They have multiple million dollar homes.

Meanwhile, people can’t afford to have medical conditions treated. Meanwhile, people have to ration insulin injections.

Meanwhile, in the country I came from a doctor often has to work 2-3 hobs to make ends meet.

US healthcare system is definitely a disaster.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Today I saw a Facebook story posted by a family of doctors that we know where they are flying overseas with 4 of their children (6 total) all in the first class. This is their fourth or fifth European vacation in the past year. All 4 kids go to a private school. They have multiple million dollar homes.

Meanwhile, people can’t afford to have medical conditions treated. Meanwhile, people have to ration insulin injections.

Meanwhile, in the country I came from a doctor often has to work 2-3 hobs to make ends meet.

US healthcare system is definitely a disaster.


You are very envious and should stop looking at their social media posts.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Today I saw a Facebook story posted by a family of doctors that we know where they are flying overseas with 4 of their children (6 total) all in the first class. This is their fourth or fifth European vacation in the past year. All 4 kids go to a private school. They have multiple million dollar homes.

Meanwhile, people can’t afford to have medical conditions treated. Meanwhile, people have to ration insulin injections.

Meanwhile, in the country I came from a doctor often has to work 2-3 hobs to make ends meet.

US healthcare system is definitely a disaster.


You are very envious and should stop looking at their social media posts.


Let them eat cake! Right Marie?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Today I saw a Facebook story posted by a family of doctors that we know where they are flying overseas with 4 of their children (6 total) all in the first class. This is their fourth or fifth European vacation in the past year. All 4 kids go to a private school. They have multiple million dollar homes.

Meanwhile, people can’t afford to have medical conditions treated. Meanwhile, people have to ration insulin injections.

Meanwhile, in the country I came from a doctor often has to work 2-3 hobs to make ends meet.

US healthcare system is definitely a disaster.


You are very envious and should stop looking at their social media posts.


Let them eat cake! Right Marie?


Don't bark at the wrong tree.
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