I feel a bit liberated wearing the hijab lately

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

But she IS thinking about it. She is thinking about it enough to write a long diatribe on DCUM about how empowered she is and how her forehead wrinkles don’t show now.

Maybe you are right and I am “Islamophobic,” (what does that even mean?) but I feel the same about any religious push towards “modesty,” it’s always only for women. It’s just that nuns have never told me that they are empowered feminists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

You get that men also cover their heads in many places where women wear hijabs, and men are also required to dress modestly?
but I hear you, you dont know what islamaphobia is

But she IS thinking about it. She is thinking about it enough to write a long diatribe on DCUM about how empowered she is and how her forehead wrinkles don’t show now.

Maybe you are right and I am “Islamophobic,” (what does that even mean?) but I feel the same about any religious push towards “modesty,” it’s always only for women. It’s just that nuns have never told me that they are empowered feminists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

You get that men also cover their heads in many places where women wear hijabs, and men are also required to dress modestly?
but I hear you, you dont know what islamaphobia is

But she IS thinking about it. She is thinking about it enough to write a long diatribe on DCUM about how empowered she is and how her forehead wrinkles don’t show now.

Maybe you are right and I am “Islamophobic,” (what does that even mean?) but I feel the same about any religious push towards “modesty,” it’s always only for women. It’s just that nuns have never told me that they are empowered feminists.

Where are men required to cover their heads? I don’t think that is a requirement … anywhere.

Directives to be “modest” are always aimed primarily at women in any religion where it is a value, from Mormons to Muslims. I’m actually from a Muslim country where hijabs are growing less common and I speak Arabic but maybe you know better than me, especially whether I am Islamophobic. 👍

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

You get that men also cover their heads in many places where women wear hijabs, and men are also required to dress modestly?
but I hear you, you dont know what islamaphobia is

But she IS thinking about it. She is thinking about it enough to write a long diatribe on DCUM about how empowered she is and how her forehead wrinkles don’t show now.

Maybe you are right and I am “Islamophobic,” (what does that even mean?) but I feel the same about any religious push towards “modesty,” it’s always only for women. It’s just that nuns have never told me that they are empowered feminists.

Where are men required to cover their heads? I don’t think that is a requirement … anywhere.

Directives to be “modest” are always aimed primarily at women in any religion where it is a value, from Mormons to Muslims. I’m actually from a Muslim country where hijabs are growing less common and I speak Arabic but maybe you know better than me, especially whether I am Islamophobic. 👍

Seems your cultural understanding doesn't expand much beyond WASPy America?

https://www.loveyourleather.ca/leather-blog/religious-hats-and-head-coverings/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

You get that men also cover their heads in many places where women wear hijabs, and men are also required to dress modestly?
but I hear you, you dont know what islamaphobia is

But she IS thinking about it. She is thinking about it enough to write a long diatribe on DCUM about how empowered she is and how her forehead wrinkles don’t show now.

Maybe you are right and I am “Islamophobic,” (what does that even mean?) but I feel the same about any religious push towards “modesty,” it’s always only for women. It’s just that nuns have never told me that they are empowered feminists.

Where are men required to cover their heads? I don’t think that is a requirement … anywhere.

Directives to be “modest” are always aimed primarily at women in any religion where it is a value, from Mormons to Muslims. I’m actually from a Muslim country where hijabs are growing less common and I speak Arabic but maybe you know better than me, especially whether I am Islamophobic. 👍

Also from a Muslim country, so I guess we are tied. Although I have a hard time believing that an American woman living in the US doesn't know what Islamaphobia is, or questions if it exists. Google for instructions on how men should dress. Here are the first two hits i got:

https://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/local/faith/2018/10/18/modesty-islam/1647658002/
https://study.com/academy/lesson/islamic-clothing-overview-practices.html#:~:text=What%20do%20Islamic%20men%20wear,as%20well%20when%20in%20public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

You get that men also cover their heads in many places where women wear hijabs, and men are also required to dress modestly?
but I hear you, you dont know what islamaphobia is

But she IS thinking about it. She is thinking about it enough to write a long diatribe on DCUM about how empowered she is and how her forehead wrinkles don’t show now.

Maybe you are right and I am “Islamophobic,” (what does that even mean?) but I feel the same about any religious push towards “modesty,” it’s always only for women. It’s just that nuns have never told me that they are empowered feminists.

Where are men required to cover their heads? I don’t think that is a requirement … anywhere.

Directives to be “modest” are always aimed primarily at women in any religion where it is a value, from Mormons to Muslims. I’m actually from a Muslim country where hijabs are growing less common and I speak Arabic but maybe you know better than me, especially whether I am Islamophobic. 👍

Seems your cultural understanding doesn't expand much beyond WASPy America?

https://www.loveyourleather.ca/leather-blog/religious-hats-and-head-coverings/

It’s clear that this discussion is beyond you but these are all traditions… NOT requirements the way the hijab is enforced by entire countries like Iran.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

You get that men also cover their heads in many places where women wear hijabs, and men are also required to dress modestly?
but I hear you, you dont know what islamaphobia is

But she IS thinking about it. She is thinking about it enough to write a long diatribe on DCUM about how empowered she is and how her forehead wrinkles don’t show now.

Maybe you are right and I am “Islamophobic,” (what does that even mean?) but I feel the same about any religious push towards “modesty,” it’s always only for women. It’s just that nuns have never told me that they are empowered feminists.

Where are men required to cover their heads? I don’t think that is a requirement … anywhere.

Directives to be “modest” are always aimed primarily at women in any religion where it is a value, from Mormons to Muslims. I’m actually from a Muslim country where hijabs are growing less common and I speak Arabic but maybe you know better than me, especially whether I am Islamophobic. 👍

Also from a Muslim country, so I guess we are tied. Although I have a hard time believing that an American woman living in the US doesn't know what Islamaphobia is, or questions if it exists. Google for instructions on how men should dress. Here are the first two hits i got:

https://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/local/faith/2018/10/18/modesty-islam/1647658002/
https://study.com/academy/lesson/islamic-clothing-overview-practices.html#:~:text=What%20do%20Islamic%20men%20wear,as%20well%20when%20in%20public.

If you click on those links (on the phone at least) what you immediately see are women. In hijab. That’s telling, I think.

[Anonymous]

OMG. The woman wants to wear a hijab and it feels freeing to her. What is the issue? She must have some sort of internalized sexism? How could she not? And if it makes her feel better, are we really doing a good thing by attacking her and telling her she's not okay or a real woman or empowered even if she thinks she is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

You get that men also cover their heads in many places where women wear hijabs, and men are also required to dress modestly?
but I hear you, you dont know what islamaphobia is

But she IS thinking about it. She is thinking about it enough to write a long diatribe on DCUM about how empowered she is and how her forehead wrinkles don’t show now.

Maybe you are right and I am “Islamophobic,” (what does that even mean?) but I feel the same about any religious push towards “modesty,” it’s always only for women. It’s just that nuns have never told me that they are empowered feminists.

Where are men required to cover their heads? I don’t think that is a requirement … anywhere.

Directives to be “modest” are always aimed primarily at women in any religion where it is a value, from Mormons to Muslims. I’m actually from a Muslim country where hijabs are growing less common and I speak Arabic but maybe you know better than me, especially whether I am Islamophobic. 👍

Also from a Muslim country, so I guess we are tied. Although I have a hard time believing that an American woman living in the US doesn't know what Islamaphobia is, or questions if it exists. Google for instructions on how men should dress. Here are the first two hits i got:

https://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/local/faith/2018/10/18/modesty-islam/1647658002/
https://study.com/academy/lesson/islamic-clothing-overview-practices.html#:~:text=What%20do%20Islamic%20men%20wear,as%20well%20when%20in%20public.

My comment was offhand and unclear because I don’t care to argue at length with someone insulting me but if having an opinion about religious headcoverings in general makes me Islamophobic maybe I don’t understand what Islamaphobia is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

You get that men also cover their heads in many places where women wear hijabs, and men are also required to dress modestly?
but I hear you, you dont know what islamaphobia is

But she IS thinking about it. She is thinking about it enough to write a long diatribe on DCUM about how empowered she is and how her forehead wrinkles don’t show now.

Maybe you are right and I am “Islamophobic,” (what does that even mean?) but I feel the same about any religious push towards “modesty,” it’s always only for women. It’s just that nuns have never told me that they are empowered feminists.

Where are men required to cover their heads? I don’t think that is a requirement … anywhere.

Directives to be “modest” are always aimed primarily at women in any religion where it is a value, from Mormons to Muslims. I’m actually from a Muslim country where hijabs are growing less common and I speak Arabic but maybe you know better than me, especially whether I am Islamophobic. 👍

Seems your cultural understanding doesn't expand much beyond WASPy America?

https://www.loveyourleather.ca/leather-blog/religious-hats-and-head-coverings/

It’s clear that this discussion is beyond you but these are all traditions… NOT requirements the way the hijab is enforced by entire countries like Iran.

It has already been discussed in this thread that some communities and even some countries - like Iran and Afghanistan - take the enforcement to next level oppression. Kind of like evangelical Christians in America who make their daughters 'marry' their fathers in purity ceremonies. Not the norm for American Christianity, although some Americans Christians would like it to be and would make it so if they have the power to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG. The woman wants to wear a hijab and it feels freeing to her. What is the issue? She must have some sort of internalized sexism? How could she not? And if it makes her feel better, are we really doing a good thing by attacking her and telling her she's not okay or a real woman or empowered even if she thinks she is?

It’s a discussion board. People can discuss issues. If it makes her feel good, she can wear it all she wants. But hijabs are also highly politicized symbols and if you want to argue that they are empowering, especially in a world where there are women who are being murdered by their government for refusing to wear one, I think you should be ready for the counterpoint, yes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've heard this sentiment a lot. Lots of people think it can be a feminist stance. 30 years ago I entertained the idea. I don't anymore because I don't think male respect or female empowerment is the reason behind it. I think the reason behind it is to police women's looks, mobility and agency, and to make male lust the responsibility of women. You can put it on but you can't take it off. It's not a choice in Iran where women are taking them off as an act of rebellion. You are not subject to morality police, so you can cosplay it to represent whatever you want it to, and you'll find plenty of women who agree with you.

This is so true.

+1

I think you can wear it if that’s what you like, if that’s what makes you comfortable and if it’s what your beliefs guide you to do.

But, this bolded part is true. It is so that us, women, can’t make men lust. It’s true for Muslim women, it was true for me as a protestant woman (think Duggar style).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

You get that men also cover their heads in many places where women wear hijabs, and men are also required to dress modestly?
but I hear you, you dont know what islamaphobia is

But she IS thinking about it. She is thinking about it enough to write a long diatribe on DCUM about how empowered she is and how her forehead wrinkles don’t show now.

Maybe you are right and I am “Islamophobic,” (what does that even mean?) but I feel the same about any religious push towards “modesty,” it’s always only for women. It’s just that nuns have never told me that they are empowered feminists.

Where are men required to cover their heads? I don’t think that is a requirement … anywhere.

Directives to be “modest” are always aimed primarily at women in any religion where it is a value, from Mormons to Muslims. I’m actually from a Muslim country where hijabs are growing less common and I speak Arabic but maybe you know better than me, especially whether I am Islamophobic. 👍

Seems your cultural understanding doesn't expand much beyond WASPy America?

https://www.loveyourleather.ca/leather-blog/religious-hats-and-head-coverings/

It’s clear that this discussion is beyond you but these are all traditions… NOT requirements the way the hijab is enforced by entire countries like Iran.

It has already been discussed in this thread that some communities and even some countries - like Iran and Afghanistan - take the enforcement to next level oppression. Kind of like evangelical Christians in America who make their daughters 'marry' their fathers in purity ceremonies. Not the norm for American Christianity, although some Americans Christians would like it to be and would make it so if they have the power to do so.

The comparison seems weird. Hijabs are very much a norm throughout the Muslim world and the varying levels of familial pressure, societal pressure, religious pressure, political pressure, internalized misogyny, are all totally relevant to any discussion of head coverings, modesty, what it means, what it means when you feel “modesty” takes pressure off you, etc. OP started the discussion. Like if OP said covering her entire face was empowering, or obscuring the shape of her body, would that be the same? Ultimately it’s a hairdo- just one that covers your hair. It’s as empowering as a ponytail, it’s the attitude behind it that’s interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ oh, give me a break. I see what you are saying, from your perspcetive, but the fact is we live in a society where there is objectification, some internalized and some external.

It would be awesome if we were all so strong as for us to still not care, but it's not reality.

I gather the OP just likes to eliminate that variable and not think about it, period, and this helps her.

To each their own

That’s fine, and that’s her right, but it doesn’t make her “liberated” or “empowered.” My 70 year old mother putzing around in frumpy pants and comfy shoes is more empowered, because she just no longer gives a crap. It’s not that hard to find empowered women if you look around.

YOu can't see why if you don't have to think about something, it could be empowering?
How much of this is Islamaphobia?

You get that men also cover their heads in many places where women wear hijabs, and men are also required to dress modestly?
but I hear you, you dont know what islamaphobia is

But she IS thinking about it. She is thinking about it enough to write a long diatribe on DCUM about how empowered she is and how her forehead wrinkles don’t show now.

Maybe you are right and I am “Islamophobic,” (what does that even mean?) but I feel the same about any religious push towards “modesty,” it’s always only for women. It’s just that nuns have never told me that they are empowered feminists.

Where are men required to cover their heads? I don’t think that is a requirement … anywhere.

Directives to be “modest” are always aimed primarily at women in any religion where it is a value, from Mormons to Muslims. I’m actually from a Muslim country where hijabs are growing less common and I speak Arabic but maybe you know better than me, especially whether I am Islamophobic. 👍

Seems your cultural understanding doesn't expand much beyond WASPy America?

https://www.loveyourleather.ca/leather-blog/religious-hats-and-head-coverings/

It’s clear that this discussion is beyond you but these are all traditions… NOT requirements the way the hijab is enforced by entire countries like Iran.

It has already been discussed in this thread that some communities and even some countries - like Iran and Afghanistan - take the enforcement to next level oppression. Kind of like evangelical Christians in America who make their daughters 'marry' their fathers in purity ceremonies. Not the norm for American Christianity, although some Americans Christians would like it to be and would make it so if they have the power to do so.

This is not the norm even for evangelical Christians. But bonus points for managing to slag off Christianity in a thread on a completely different topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG. The woman wants to wear a hijab and it feels freeing to her. What is the issue? She must have some sort of internalized sexism? How could she not? And if it makes her feel better, are we really doing a good thing by attacking her and telling her she's not okay or a real woman or empowered even if she thinks she is?

NP. But it wasn't just framed in terms of how much she got out of it. It had to be couched in terms of putting down others -- other women making different choices, the culture as a whole.

My skepticism goes up when feeling good about yourself and your choices has to be framed in terms of looking down on others. Sorry.