Raising kids in a competitive UMC community? Would you do it all over again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

I'm pretty sure Loudon county is the richest county in Virginia, or actually the entire country. So not only do you live in the middle of nowhere, but you have crappy schools and you didn't remotely escape that striver mindset.

I’m not going to bother explaining statistics to you, but highest median household income does not equal net worth or even mean/average household income. Most of the families doing all this striving are barely breaking $300k. They are just terrible with money and value superficial things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

I'm pretty sure Loudon county is the richest county in Virginia, or actually the entire country. So not only do you live in the middle of nowhere, but you have crappy schools and you didn't remotely escape that striver mindset.

I’m not going to bother explaining statistics to you, but highest median household income does not equal net worth or even mean/average household income. Most of the families doing all this striving are barely breaking $300k. They are just terrible with money and value superficial things.

Do you know what is funny? The Ashburn moms I know literally try to figure out how X can afford her Range Rover or how Y can afford to buy a Chanel bag when her husband has Z job. Z job only pays $200k.

[Anonymous]

If you're still reading and interested in relevant research, the late Suniya Luthar did ground-breaking work in this area. This article is a good overview: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31697105/

Attending what she calls a "high-achieving school" specifically increases risk for mental health problems in teens. Even if research doesn't translate to every individual, it's an important consideration.

[Anonymous]

I grew up here and so I'll raise my kid in Chevy Chase. They can go and work and live all around the world like I did. And I wonder if they'll come back. Like I did.

I think it's different when people grow up here or another umc community. It's not as competitive to the locals. People have roots. It's just home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up here and so I'll raise my kid in Chevy Chase. They can go and work and live all around the world like I did. And I wonder if they'll come back. Like I did.

I think it's different when people grow up here or another umc community. It's not as competitive to the locals. People have roots. It's just home.

I didn’t grow up here, but in another competitive community, and it’s fine? It’s just what I’m used to. No mental health problems, no stress. It’s just what I find normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

Why not move to DC? I live in NE, and everyone around me has a 10 year old Honda CRV they barely use because we mostly use the bus or metro. My kids wear Amazon basics and I’m sporting the latest from Target. DH and I make a lot, but choose to spend on experiences, and kids are learning well in charter schools.

Life is only competitive if you make it that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up here and so I'll raise my kid in Chevy Chase. They can go and work and live all around the world like I did. And I wonder if they'll come back. Like I did.

I think it's different when people grow up here or another umc community. It's not as competitive to the locals. People have roots. It's just home.

I didn’t grow up here, but in another competitive community, and it’s fine? It’s just what I’m used to. No mental health problems, no stress. It’s just what I find normal.

Unless you were able to o through everyone’s medical records you have no idea what types of illnesses people have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The hilarious thing about this to me is that we're talking about DC here. Not NYC or LA or SF, but DC.

I moved to DC 20 years ago specifically because it was NOT those cities. It was cheaper, easier to get around, less intense. I was graduating law school and actually summered at a NYC firm and had multiple offers from CA firms (I'm from there) but DC felt more chill and I wanted a "smaller pond."

And DC is STILL a smaller pond than any of those places, but I think that's part of the problem. Instead of embracing that fact, people in this area resent it and have a big chip on their shoulder, and get even more competitive because they don't want anyone looking down on them because their from DC. Ugh. Whooooo Caaaaaaares. People from NY and LA look down on everyone, FYI.

Anyway, we are leaving and I'm relieved. Heading to an even smaller pond, but one that embraces that fact instead of being insecure about it.

I doubt people look down on the DC area. It’s that nobody really thinks of it as anything other than bureaucrats and politicians and their aides running around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are currently raising our kids in a very competitive UMC community. There’s some racial diversity but next to no socioeconomic diversity. Top 1 percent ranked public school in the national, starting price for a modest house is 1.5-2n… it’s very much a bubble. Kids are extremely involved in extracurriculars across the board and it’s a very strong community. In many ways we are happy with it but I also have this nagging feeling maybe it’s not the answer for my family and my kids. I grew up in a small middle class town where everyone made the team in HS and college was expected but community college was okay too. It wasn’t a pressure cooker environment. We were just kids and had a lot of leisure time. I went on to private school in college and experienced the uber wealthy and those from much lower incomes in my social circle as well as a lot of diversity. I think I personally benefitted from it and do well with all kinds of people. We own a second home in a rural area. My kids are 6,8 and 9. I’m considering moving there where it’s a much simpler lifestyle and not so competitive. I would love to hear what people have to say about their own experiences.

It's a genuinely hard question.

I grew up in both. Kind of lower middle class as a kid. Then upper middle class, wealthy by any normal standard.

Life as a regular kid is way easier and healthier as a middle class family. It just is. You're experiencing life on life's terms. You are experiencing the day in the moment. No one is expecting you to go St. Albans and Harvard. You're there. At this moment in time. You are not constantly future-oriented. You are not comparing yourself to your peers. You're alive in the moment.

When you move to a place like Chevy Chase or Bethesda or Potomac, everything becomes very future oriented. And it makes a difference. It's much more stressful. You do compare yourself to peers. You do stress about what college you might get into. High school can be incredibly stressful. A B might be devastating. Some kind of rejection from a peer group can be overwhelming.

But on the other hand, being in a UMC/well-to-do community and school offers opportunities that you are not going to get at a rural or lower income community. It might be peers. You know, smart and motivated kids. It might be classes. You've messed up if you have a STEM kid, and your rural or low income school doesn't offer calculus. The opportunities are better when you are in an UMC community. But the stress is higher.

We ultimately chose to move from a wonderful, but pretty small and limited community on the West Coast to the DMV. For lots of reasons. None easy to make. But one of the reasons was that we sensed the kids wouldn't be prepared for a global, 21st Century world if we had remained. And it's worked out. No real regrets. Both doing really well and happy. But yeah, wish things were simpler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up here and so I'll raise my kid in Chevy Chase. They can go and work and live all around the world like I did. And I wonder if they'll come back. Like I did.

I think it's different when people grow up here or another umc community. It's not as competitive to the locals. People have roots. It's just home.

I didn’t grow up here, but in another competitive community, and it’s fine? It’s just what I’m used to. No mental health problems, no stress. It’s just what I find normal.

Yeah, I don’t find this area stressful. I also find it more affordable than where I’m from (nyc).

[Anonymous]

I didn’t find the DMV to be competitive at all. We moved to NYC because I wanted my kid to learn how to be competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reach the same conclusion every time I read one of these threads, which is that you all need better friends. It's not where you live - its who you choose to spend your time with.

+1 I haven't experienced this. I have one in college and a HS senior. I think it's friends AND mindset.

I really don’t get this. Have you all never lived outside the DC area? It’s a big country and it’s absolutely variable in terms of the pace of life. Maybe if you haven’t lived in other places, you don’t realize how different the northeast is generally. Places have different vibes, whether it’s east coast/west coast, southeast vs Midwest vs northeast, urban vs rural. And yes, some places are more competitive, driven and job/work oriented than others. None of this is a knock on DC or other fast paced areas! It doesn’t mean people in more fast paced areas aren’t nice. It’s just not for everyone.

I’m from NYC. Compared to my friends in NYC, our kids in a highly ranked DMV school pyramid seem to have it pretty easy. We don’t have to test into GT in kindergarten or apply to middle and high schools.

DH and I are both Ivy grad school educated. The friends we have in NYC are well educated and all want their kids to go to the Ivy schools they attended.

Our friends here in our UMC highly ranked public schools seem less concerned about their kids getting into ivy schools. People here seem satisfied with UVA, UMD, Penn State, etc.

The operative word is seem

I have two Ivy League degrees and my kids won't go to an Ivy. They are in elementary so it's not sour grapes (yet?) - the value is just not there, academically, financially and socially. And they are, so far, ambitious kids. However, this crazy focus on the college brand is playing a short game.

I have two Ivy League degrees and my kids will definitely go to an Ivy. Going to Ivys was the best thing I ever did. Yes, I worked very hard to get into one for undergrad— but then I never worked hard again!! Doors kept opening and opening and opening, and still do today. To work hard from age 5-18 so that you are on easy street for the rest of your life— of course I want this for my kids??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hilarious thing about this to me is that we're talking about DC here. Not NYC or LA or SF, but DC.

I moved to DC 20 years ago specifically because it was NOT those cities. It was cheaper, easier to get around, less intense. I was graduating law school and actually summered at a NYC firm and had multiple offers from CA firms (I'm from there) but DC felt more chill and I wanted a "smaller pond."

And DC is STILL a smaller pond than any of those places, but I think that's part of the problem. Instead of embracing that fact, people in this area resent it and have a big chip on their shoulder, and get even more competitive because they don't want anyone looking down on them because their from DC. Ugh. Whooooo Caaaaaaares. People from NY and LA look down on everyone, FYI.

Anyway, we are leaving and I'm relieved. Heading to an even smaller pond, but one that embraces that fact instead of being insecure about it.

I doubt people look down on the DC area. It’s that nobody really thinks of it as anything other than bureaucrats and politicians and their aides running around.

I definitely look down at DC! I live in Greenwich and lived in the City for years. DC is parochial and competition is definitely not as fierce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you people complaining of the hyper competitiveness just need to move a little further out/into less affluent areas right here in the DC metro. What do you expect if you live in Arlington, McLean, Bethesda, Falls Church, even Vienna? There's a lot of money in those places. If you go just a little further out/less affluent you will still get some competitiveness but it will be mixed with more middle class and down to earth people. You don't have to move out of the area entirely. And also did you not know what you were signing up for when you decided you wanted the nice house very close to a major city? Of course it's a bunch of rich people who value superficial things and look down on others.

its not just that they are rich-they are rich who have mostly earned their own wealth through striving and working hard, I mean a lot came from UMC families but UMC in 1990 is not the same as the UMC now. These families have double triple the means their parents did when they were growing up and they are very proud of themselves and made a lot of choices and sacrifices b/c wealth creation was the be-all end-all. People like this are not just rich, they are materialistic/superficial to the point of toxicity. And the many posts on here point to a lot of us realizing that this cant be what we worked for but dont quite know how to fix it. and to those who think moving to the midwest will solve it- ha ha, the midwest is cheap and the salaries are higher, people there have a LOT more disposable income and you've got just as much or more materialistic striving, especially with the kids. honestly nowhere else has as highly concentrated a pool of highly educated UMC people with interesting jobs and experiences with an appetite and desire for excellence as DC, the other cities are full of actually wealthy people- like billionaire level or nearing it. DC is a city of the top 10%, not the .01%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you people complaining of the hyper competitiveness just need to move a little further out/into less affluent areas right here in the DC metro. What do you expect if you live in Arlington, McLean, Bethesda, Falls Church, even Vienna? There's a lot of money in those places. If you go just a little further out/less affluent you will still get some competitiveness but it will be mixed with more middle class and down to earth people. You don't have to move out of the area entirely. And also did you not know what you were signing up for when you decided you wanted the nice house very close to a major city? Of course it's a bunch of rich people who value superficial things and look down on others.

its not just that they are rich-they are rich who have mostly earned their own wealth through striving and working hard, I mean a lot came from UMC families but UMC in 1990 is not the same as the UMC now. These families have double triple the means their parents did when they were growing up and they are very proud of themselves and made a lot of choices and sacrifices b/c wealth creation was the be-all end-all. People like this are not just rich, they are materialistic/superficial to the point of toxicity. And the many posts on here point to a lot of us realizing that this cant be what we worked for but dont quite know how to fix it. and to those who think moving to the midwest will solve it- ha ha, the midwest is cheap and the salaries are higher, people there have a LOT more disposable income and you've got just as much or more materialistic striving, especially with the kids. honestly nowhere else has as highly concentrated a pool of highly educated UMC people with interesting jobs and experiences with an appetite and desire for excellence as DC, the other cities are full of actually wealthy people- like billionaire level or nearing it. DC is a city of the top 10%, not the .01%

We are not billionaires. We do have a seven figure income. We are not a materialistic family. I’m not sure why you think people are materialistic/superficial to the point of toxicity.

I have friends who live here from CA and NY and we think people in the DMV are down to earth. Maybe this is just code for uglier. My one friend from LA is glad to raise her girls here where people are less superficial. I have boys and they just don’t care about their clothes or brands. In our circles, there are lawyers, doctors, tech executives, government contractors, military, feds, etc. They are UMC/UC. I don’t think anyone we hang out with is materialistic at all.