Where do "B" average Big-3 students go to college?

[Anonymous]

This is it exactly. I went to a top NESCAC and have a PhD - I read over ds's papers and think they are good, but he gets B+s. I guess they could be better or two kids in the class did write better papers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh honey... It's not that the kids are smarter. It's that the grading is harder. No credit for test corrections, retakes, extra credit assignments, homework, class participation, etc. Your grades are usually based on your test results and/ or papers (which are graded on a curve).

I think that actually does translate into test scores as well. My Big 3 3.4 GPA kid easily scored 34 on the ACT. I'm sure if he had studied more, he could have brought that up a point or two.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in my third cycle of getting a 3.0 to 3.2 kid from Big 3 to college. This year is absolutely nothing like the other years. I really believe the increasing grade inflation from publics, along with the 50% plus increase in applications to so many schools, has made all schools except the LACS out of reach for the 50th percentile and lower kids this year. My 3.2 kid has been deferred from everywhere and I think is about to get rejected from Tennessee tomorrow, then later Boulder--his top two choices. I do think he'll get into some PA LACs, which is not what he wants. But this cycle is even worse than 2021. I really wish I had sent my kids to public. They would have had fun and had better opportunities.

Sorry to disappoint, but I know kids with much higher stats (3.7-3.8 gpa) who were not admitted to Boulder and Tennessee in the EA rounds, so unlikely a lower gpa (especially 3.0-3.2) will get in in RD round. That gpa range needs to look significantly lower on the list (think Montana State), unless major hook. Sorry!

That’s a 3.0-3.2 from a good private. Probably equivalent to a 4.5 from MCPS.

I want some of what you are smoking! Seriously.. think logically. Your argument is that a 3.2 at a Private school is equivalent to a 3.8 at a decent Public (equal to about a 4.3 weighted). That would imply the vast majority of Private school kids are innately smart. Is that borne out by SAT results? Not really. Most Private School kids barely scratch 1450s on the SATs and that is with a ton of expensive prep. The top 100% of the kids at TJ and top 20-30% of the kids at any other public score above that and that's a lot of kids.

Here's what makes sense (and I think colleges are seeing through this). Private school classes likely have more rigor than public schools. I'll concede that a normal class at a Private is about the same level of rigor as a Honors class at a good public and a Honors class at a Private is about the same rigor as an AP. The lack of AP classes at a Private school is a problem but that's a you problem rather than a public school kid problem. All that is to say that a 3.0 at a Private is maybe about a 3.2-3.3 at a Public. That's it.

How did this delusion work in the past? Grift. College admissions advisors at Privates had this insider connection with college admissions offices, especially SLACs that wanted a dependable pipeline of full pay students. Post pandemic, colleges have realized that all they had to level up was go test optional and get on the common app to attract a large number of students. They are not dependent on your pipeline anymore.

Welcome to post-pandemic college admissions!

Agreed. My NCS kid will spend 30-40 hours on a 3 page paper and and turn in something that beats anything I wrote for a master's degree in English literature and she'll get an 89% only to find out that there were two A minuses and zero As awarded out of 80 kids.

Meanwhile my public school kid (at a very strong public high school) will turn in an AP essay that he wrote the night before it was due and get an A every time. We're sure that he would get straight Ds at NCS.

It's night and day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh honey... It's not that the kids are smarter. It's that the grading is harder. No credit for test corrections, retakes, extra credit assignments, homework, class participation, etc. Your grades are usually based on your test results and/ or papers (which are graded on a curve).

I think that actually does translate into test scores as well. My Big 3 3.4 GPA kid easily scored 34 on the ACT. I'm sure if he had studied more, he could have brought that up a point or two.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in my third cycle of getting a 3.0 to 3.2 kid from Big 3 to college. This year is absolutely nothing like the other years. I really believe the increasing grade inflation from publics, along with the 50% plus increase in applications to so many schools, has made all schools except the LACS out of reach for the 50th percentile and lower kids this year. My 3.2 kid has been deferred from everywhere and I think is about to get rejected from Tennessee tomorrow, then later Boulder--his top two choices. I do think he'll get into some PA LACs, which is not what he wants. But this cycle is even worse than 2021. I really wish I had sent my kids to public. They would have had fun and had better opportunities.

Sorry to disappoint, but I know kids with much higher stats (3.7-3.8 gpa) who were not admitted to Boulder and Tennessee in the EA rounds, so unlikely a lower gpa (especially 3.0-3.2) will get in in RD round. That gpa range needs to look significantly lower on the list (think Montana State), unless major hook. Sorry!

That’s a 3.0-3.2 from a good private. Probably equivalent to a 4.5 from MCPS.

I want some of what you are smoking! Seriously.. think logically. Your argument is that a 3.2 at a Private school is equivalent to a 3.8 at a decent Public (equal to about a 4.3 weighted). That would imply the vast majority of Private school kids are innately smart. Is that borne out by SAT results? Not really. Most Private School kids barely scratch 1450s on the SATs and that is with a ton of expensive prep. The top 100% of the kids at TJ and top 20-30% of the kids at any other public score above that and that's a lot of kids.

Here's what makes sense (and I think colleges are seeing through this). Private school classes likely have more rigor than public schools. I'll concede that a normal class at a Private is about the same level of rigor as a Honors class at a good public and a Honors class at a Private is about the same rigor as an AP. The lack of AP classes at a Private school is a problem but that's a you problem rather than a public school kid problem. All that is to say that a 3.0 at a Private is maybe about a 3.2-3.3 at a Public. That's it.

How did this delusion work in the past? Grift. College admissions advisors at Privates had this insider connection with college admissions offices, especially SLACs that wanted a dependable pipeline of full pay students. Post pandemic, colleges have realized that all they had to level up was go test optional and get on the common app to attract a large number of students. They are not dependent on your pipeline anymore.

Welcome to post-pandemic college admissions!

That's in line with what I said. A 3.4 at a 'top private' is about the same as a 3.7 at a good public. That's an A- and a 34 is consistent with that. A 3.9 equivalent kid would have scored a 35 and a 3.95-4.0 equivalent kid would have scored a 36, both of which are A territory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh honey... It's not that the kids are smarter. It's that the grading is harder. No credit for test corrections, retakes, extra credit assignments, homework, class participation, etc. Your grades are usually based on your test results and/ or papers (which are graded on a curve).

I think that actually does translate into test scores as well. My Big 3 3.4 GPA kid easily scored 34 on the ACT. I'm sure if he had studied more, he could have brought that up a point or two.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in my third cycle of getting a 3.0 to 3.2 kid from Big 3 to college. This year is absolutely nothing like the other years. I really believe the increasing grade inflation from publics, along with the 50% plus increase in applications to so many schools, has made all schools except the LACS out of reach for the 50th percentile and lower kids this year. My 3.2 kid has been deferred from everywhere and I think is about to get rejected from Tennessee tomorrow, then later Boulder--his top two choices. I do think he'll get into some PA LACs, which is not what he wants. But this cycle is even worse than 2021. I really wish I had sent my kids to public. They would have had fun and had better opportunities.

Sorry to disappoint, but I know kids with much higher stats (3.7-3.8 gpa) who were not admitted to Boulder and Tennessee in the EA rounds, so unlikely a lower gpa (especially 3.0-3.2) will get in in RD round. That gpa range needs to look significantly lower on the list (think Montana State), unless major hook. Sorry!

That’s a 3.0-3.2 from a good private. Probably equivalent to a 4.5 from MCPS.

I want some of what you are smoking! Seriously.. think logically. Your argument is that a 3.2 at a Private school is equivalent to a 3.8 at a decent Public (equal to about a 4.3 weighted). That would imply the vast majority of Private school kids are innately smart. Is that borne out by SAT results? Not really. Most Private School kids barely scratch 1450s on the SATs and that is with a ton of expensive prep. The top 100% of the kids at TJ and top 20-30% of the kids at any other public score above that and that's a lot of kids.

Here's what makes sense (and I think colleges are seeing through this). Private school classes likely have more rigor than public schools. I'll concede that a normal class at a Private is about the same level of rigor as a Honors class at a good public and a Honors class at a Private is about the same rigor as an AP. The lack of AP classes at a Private school is a problem but that's a you problem rather than a public school kid problem. All that is to say that a 3.0 at a Private is maybe about a 3.2-3.3 at a Public. That's it.

How did this delusion work in the past? Grift. College admissions advisors at Privates had this insider connection with college admissions offices, especially SLACs that wanted a dependable pipeline of full pay students. Post pandemic, colleges have realized that all they had to level up was go test optional and get on the common app to attract a large number of students. They are not dependent on your pipeline anymore.

Welcome to post-pandemic college admissions!

That's in line with what I said. A 3.4 at a 'top private' is about the same as a 3.7 at a good public. That's an A- and a 34 is consistent with that. A 3.9 equivalent kid would have scored a 35 and a 3.95-4.0 equivalent kid would have scored a 36, both of which are A territory.

Even if I believe you, the significant point here is that large public universities don’t make these distinctions. They want to be able to report a high average gpa and these kids drag them down. Ivies are still only going to take the top kids that made As. You’re left with SLACS, who will take the grading scale into account. The problem is that these schools are all test optional now, which makes the competition for all the “top” schools intense, and the grading scale hurts private school kids at the schools that used to be “safeties.”

[Anonymous]

I can tell you that they don’t go to the University of Tennessee. My B student, 33 ACT was WL at Tennessee last night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you that they don’t go to the University of Tennessee. My B student, 33 ACT was WL at Tennessee last night.

From Big 3?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in my third cycle of getting a 3.0 to 3.2 kid from Big 3 to college. This year is absolutely nothing like the other years. I really believe the increasing grade inflation from publics, along with the 50% plus increase in applications to so many schools, has made all schools except the LACS out of reach for the 50th percentile and lower kids this year. My 3.2 kid has been deferred from everywhere and I think is about to get rejected from Tennessee tomorrow, then later Boulder--his top two choices. I do think he'll get into some PA LACs, which is not what he wants. But this cycle is even worse than 2021. I really wish I had sent my kids to public. They would have had fun and had better opportunities.

Sorry to disappoint, but I know kids with much higher stats (3.7-3.8 gpa) who were not admitted to Boulder and Tennessee in the EA rounds, so unlikely a lower gpa (especially 3.0-3.2) will get in in RD round. That gpa range needs to look significantly lower on the list (think Montana State), unless major hook. Sorry!

That’s a 3.0-3.2 from a good private. Probably equivalent to a 4.5 from MCPS.

Exactly. To the PP, this is a "Big 3" thread. In the past, up until this year, Boulder has been a safety for the B/B+ students. Even this year, they don't have to look "significantly lower." Mine, for instance is already admitted to two in the top 100. Thanks though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you that they don’t go to the University of Tennessee. My B student, 33 ACT was WL at Tennessee last night.

From Big 3?

Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you that they don’t go to the University of Tennessee. My B student, 33 ACT was WL at Tennessee last night.

My B+ from one of the so-called "Big 3" was also waitlisted last night. I am somewhat relieved. Already accepted into two schools that to me are better choices, but Tennessee was their first choice. Taking it surprisingly well. It's all very confusing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you that they don’t go to the University of Tennessee. My B student, 33 ACT was WL at Tennessee last night.

From Big 3?

Yes.

Yup. There's a ripple of panic at our big 3. The CCO platitudes are running thin in the fact of deferrals and waitlists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you that they don’t go to the University of Tennessee. My B student, 33 ACT was WL at Tennessee last night.

From Big 3?

Yes.

Yup. There's a ripple of panic at our big 3. The CCO platitudes are running thin in the fact of deferrals and waitlists.

which school? can you share more?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in my third cycle of getting a 3.0 to 3.2 kid from Big 3 to college. This year is absolutely nothing like the other years. I really believe the increasing grade inflation from publics, along with the 50% plus increase in applications to so many schools, has made all schools except the LACS out of reach for the 50th percentile and lower kids this year. My 3.2 kid has been deferred from everywhere and I think is about to get rejected from Tennessee tomorrow, then later Boulder--his top two choices. I do think he'll get into some PA LACs, which is not what he wants. But this cycle is even worse than 2021. I really wish I had sent my kids to public. They would have had fun and had better opportunities.

Sorry to disappoint, but I know kids with much higher stats (3.7-3.8 gpa) who were not admitted to Boulder and Tennessee in the EA rounds, so unlikely a lower gpa (especially 3.0-3.2) will get in in RD round. That gpa range needs to look significantly lower on the list (think Montana State), unless major hook. Sorry!

That’s a 3.0-3.2 from a good private. Probably equivalent to a 4.5 from MCPS.

I want some of what you are smoking! Seriously.. think logically. Your argument is that a 3.2 at a Private school is equivalent to a 3.8 at a decent Public (equal to about a 4.3 weighted). That would imply the vast majority of Private school kids are innately smart. Is that borne out by SAT results? Not really. Most Private School kids barely scratch 1450s on the SATs and that is with a ton of expensive prep. The top 100% of the kids at TJ and top 20-30% of the kids at any other public score above that and that's a lot of kids.

Here's what makes sense (and I think colleges are seeing through this). Private school classes likely have more rigor than public schools. I'll concede that a normal class at a Private is about the same level of rigor as a Honors class at a good public and a Honors class at a Private is about the same rigor as an AP. The lack of AP classes at a Private school is a problem but that's a you problem rather than a public school kid problem. All that is to say that a 3.0 at a Private is maybe about a 3.2-3.3 at a Public. That's it.

How did this delusion work in the past? Grift. College admissions advisors at Privates had this insider connection with college admissions offices, especially SLACs that wanted a dependable pipeline of full pay students. Post pandemic, colleges have realized that all they had to level up was go test optional and get on the common app to attract a large number of students. They are not dependent on your pipeline anymore.

Welcome to post-pandemic college admissions!

I have current high schoolers in public and a top private high school. The grading scales are nothing alike. It's literally night and day. A 3.2 at my one kid's (top) private is equal to about a 3.8 (unweighted) at the good public my other kid attends. I don't think you realize but teachers at some of these privates use a bell curve and start the curve with giving 2 A's over the entire grade. It's really not possible to get an A until you are the top two students in the grade in some core classes (often English). Clearly, this type of grading is not working for college admissions in the year 2023. Plus there are no retakes, no late work is accepted, etc.

I'm not saying the private school kids are smarter, more deserving of a top university spot, etc but the daily expectations are much, much higher.
I have no dog in this fight (kids are currently at both high schools) but I just want to explain the reality.

You have a DD at NCS too? Why do they insist on only giving 2 As out across the entire grade of 70 or so kids? It is crazy.

NP: Different private school here, and we were told they explicitly grade to a B. In a small class, that means very few As are available. To me that is counterintuitive in high schools with no lifers where admissions are based on academics. They are selecting A students because they are A students and then turning 70% of them into B and C students. It's weird.

[Anonymous]

I think the B students at good private schools can still place well at slac and private universities. Mine is going to Occidental college next year- it’s not Williams
obviously, but it was truly his first choice and he’s thrilled. His counselor thought he had a good shot at Pitzer but he liked Oxy better anyway. I think the state universities are nearly impossible these days, so the issue is for B students who are targeting state schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you that they don’t go to the University of Tennessee. My B student, 33 ACT was WL at Tennessee last night.

From Big 3?

Yes.

Yup. There's a ripple of panic at our big 3. The CCO platitudes are running thin in the fact of deferrals and waitlists.

Ha, ha. The "big 3" effect is not working out, huh?

I know quite a few B students in Fairfax Co and Loudoun Co. (VA) who got in at Tennessee.

[Anonymous]

I think the state universities are nearly impossible these days, so the issue is for B students who are targeting state schools.

I agree that many state schools are seeing increased demand, but there also seems to be significant demand at the current popular schools that 2-3 years ago were safeties like Clemson, Auburn, Tennessee, Fordham, UVM & Colorado. I think more high stat kids are landing at these schools after being denied or WL at their ED choice so a "B" student may need to consider schools that aren't as popular and add a few schools in the next tier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you that they don’t go to the University of Tennessee. My B student, 33 ACT was WL at Tennessee last night.

My B+ from one of the so-called "Big 3" was also waitlisted last night. I am somewhat relieved. Already accepted into two schools that to me are better choices, but Tennessee was their first choice. Taking it surprisingly well. It's all very confusing.

It really isn't that confusing. Big state schools are using algorithms to admit students. How many Big 3 kids actually attend a school like University of Tennessee if they get in. Not many. The algorithm determined that your kid was not likely to accept. If a big State U is your kid's dream, you are better off at a public school OR a more academically comprehensive private (not an elite prep school).