final exam in math - is this normal

[Anonymous]

My oldest kid is a freshman at a public high school and is in honors (not AP) algebra II class. His teacher is really hard and because it is an honors class puts questions on the exam that require applying the math they have learned in new ways with questions that go beyond what they have done in class or for homework. During the year, the saving grace is that the teacher has been fairly generous with partial credit (even so a lot of students who are generally straight A students get their only Bs with this teacher).

For the final, because the grades are due just a few days after the exam, the teachers said he is not giving any partial credit. Calculators are not allowed on the test and it is usually hard for students to finish the teacher's tests in the allotted time so there is not a lot of time to check work. Apparently in past years the highest grade on the exam was an 85%.

Is no partial credit for a math final with no calculators common? I'm fine with no calculators, but no partial credit for a challenging test where students will be short on time seems like a lot. I am not really asking for advice - just wondering if I am crazy to think that this seems too tough? It also seems crazy that teachers have almost no time to grade exams.

[Anonymous]

The timeframe for grading exams is normal. Teachers are 10 month employees. Their contract extends between one and five days after students’ last day, and grades have to be finalized before they go home for the summer.

It’s also typical to test students’ problem solving ability on a math exam. For an honors class, the expectation is to demonstrate mastery, not just recall of an algorithm. Admittedly, there’s a lot of latitude in how a teacher assesses problem solving ability and how rigorous the questions are.

Having 85% as the highest grade is a little concerning to me. As a teacher, I always considered 80% the minimum threshold for demonstrating understanding. Below that might be passing but indicates a shaky understanding of foundational skills (if the expectation is that students are able to perform independently at the level at which they were taught). I think it would be fair to ask for the median score and the score range once the exams are graded. That said, I will add the caveat that sometimes there are high school classes where the students’ scores trend lower because they are resistant to doing the work. If there are enough students who sandbag a class—perhaps due to anxiety, perhaps due to difficulty initiating and sustaining work—it’s possible for grades to trend lower without it being the teacher’s fault.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply PP! Do you think long multistep problems with no calculators and no partial credit is typical? On some level I respect this teacher for not buying into grade inflation and giving smart kids a bit of a kick in the butt. On the other hand an exam where a lot of kids won’t finish in time and there is no partial credit seems like a lot.

[Anonymous]

It maybe depends on whether it is graded on a curve. My Calc class was graded on a Bell curve. Exams were very hard. 50% right was an A. Only 30% right was still passing.

[Anonymous]

OP here. This teacher does not grade on a curve. Only a few kids get As each year (maybe 2-3 in a class of 25-30 kids), and this teacher's class is regularly the only B a lot of very strong students get during their time in high school based on what my kids and I have heard.

[Anonymous]

Try doing some alcumus problems

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This teacher does not grade on a curve. Only a few kids get As each year (maybe 2-3 in a class of 25-30 kids), and this teacher's class is regularly the only B a lot of very strong students get during their time in high school based on what my kids and I have heard.

I like this teacher.

[Anonymous]

Thank your lucky stars some get a B. They won’t be stressed all 4 years worrying about all As.

It is an honors class. My son sucks at math so I can’t compare, but his history teacher does similar things in history. Questions like how to compare the past to the present; or discuss geographical impact in current times.
It is not what they specifically studied at and all really make the kids think. She wants them applying what they learned and not just regurgitating information. It is also very hard! My child struggles with this.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Im all for exams being hard, what I had concerns about was no partial credit for computationally intensive problems under tight time constraints with no calculator.

[Anonymous]

I am a high school teacher, and we are expected to norm our major assessments and exams with those of other teachers teaching the course. I am wondering if this is happening here. A rogue teacher intentionally trying to be super hard isn't always the best practice, and this practice often rewards the "highest IQ kids" who would do well in all circumstances and not those who have put in considerable effort. That said, rigorous work in math does require success in handling novel problems and being good at both computation and conceptional thinking.

I will note, too, that I got my lowest grade in math, a B-, in 8th grade when I had one of these teachers; I went on to major in math in college and got all A's for the rest of high school and college. My 8th grade teacher told me, point blank, that I was a great mathematical thinker but wouldn't go further if I didn't get better at computation. So I worked at it, and I doubt I would have continued in math but for this "tough love" experience. Other classmates, in contrast, were demoralized and lost the desire to try hard in math again. I don't teach math now, but probably wouldn't aim to be one of those super hard teachers, even though I benefitted from having one.

[Anonymous]

I have a math degree (was FGLI in the 80s) and this type of teacher would have crushed my soul and made me think I wasn't cut out for a math major.

I later went on to grad school and on the GRE got 800/800 quantitative and 790/800 analytical logical (not analytical writing).

I am so glad I had encouraging teachers who tested based on their presentations and homework.

I also think teachers at the same school should test and grade using similar standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My oldest kid is a freshman at a public high school and is in honors (not AP) algebra II class. His teacher is really hard and because it is an honors class puts questions on the exam that require applying the math they have learned in new ways with questions that go beyond what they have done in class or for homework. During the year, the saving grace is that the teacher has been fairly generous with partial credit (even so a lot of students who are generally straight A students get their only Bs with this teacher).

For the final, because the grades are due just a few days after the exam, the teachers said he is not giving any partial credit. Calculators are not allowed on the test and it is usually hard for students to finish the teacher's tests in the allotted time so there is not a lot of time to check work. Apparently in past years the highest grade on the exam was an 85%.

Is no partial credit for a math final with no calculators common? I'm fine with no calculators, but no partial credit for a challenging test where students will be short on time seems like a lot. I am not really asking for advice - just wondering if I am crazy to think that this seems too tough? It also seems crazy that teachers have almost no time to grade exams.

Send them a gift card and thank you note.

[Anonymous]

100% normal.

Our honors algebra 2 classes are exactly as you describe, no calculator, multi step. The final has zero partial credit because of timing for grading.

TBH the final is easier than anything we’ve given all year, but the scores are always significantly lower than during the year. Even when we gave it early in prior years so we had time to give partial credit, even when we made it straight multiple choice, even when we spend 2 weeks reviewing in class. The kids struggle to perform on cumulative exams. The 85% thing isn’t surprising to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:100% normal.

Our honors algebra 2 classes are exactly as you describe, no calculator, multi step. The final has zero partial credit because of timing for grading.

TBH the final is easier than anything we’ve given all year, but the scores are always significantly lower than during the year. Even when we gave it early in prior years so we had time to give partial credit, even when we made it straight multiple choice, even when we spend 2 weeks reviewing in class. The kids struggle to perform on cumulative exams. The 85% thing isn’t surprising to me.

But the final is written with the input of all algebra 2 honors teachers, sitting around a table with the same policies for all of us. If one teacher is giving partial credit and one isn’t, that’s a problem. If one allows a calculator and one doesn’t, that’s a problem. If the tests aren’t the same across teachers (or at least equivalent version a/b/c) that’s a problem.

[Anonymous]

Are all the exams graded by the same teacher? DD is in 8th and her math teacher didn't give partial credit all year but the other math teachers did, so my DD would get the same "wrong" answer as her friend but she'd get a zero and her friend would get partial credit. DDs teacher scored all the final exams and kids in other classes were shocked when they didn't do well.