Harvard Faculty Approves Cap

[Anonymous]

The 20 percent plus 4 cap on flat As has passed. Notably there is no cap on the grade of A minus. Goes into effect fall of 2027 for a three year pilot.

This brings Harvard back to the grading metric of the early 1990s.

[Anonymous]

No it is not back to 90s because there is no cap on A-. A- plus A could be 100% of the class, as it is now in most classes. The difference is A can no longer be the median. The median GPA overall may be pushed down from the current 3.9 to 3.7ish as it is at some of the mildly deflated ivies(Princeton, Penn) but it will not go back to 3.3-3.4 as it was in the 90s.

[Anonymous]

Well that's stupid for quantitative courses, where more than 20% of the students can get everything numerically correct on their exams.

But I'm sure they'll figure it out.

[Anonymous]

So basically just a technicality since most of the class can then just get A-s. Ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So basically just a technicality since most of the class can then just get A-s. Ridiculous.

I really think that's more or less how it is now. I don't think this is some kind of significant change. An A really hard to get, even now, and an a minus is not as hard. In other words, an A minus is what we would have called a B. I think it's been this way for a while and everyone knows it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well that's stupid for quantitative courses, where more than 20% of the students can get everything numerically correct on their exams.

But I'm sure they'll figure it out.

How do they handle this. If two kids get the exact same score on the math test, how do they decide who gets the A and who gets the A minus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically just a technicality since most of the class can then just get A-s. Ridiculous.

I really think that's more or less how it is now. I don't think this is some kind of significant change. An A really hard to get, even now, and an a minus is not as hard. In other words, an A minus is what we would have called a B. I think it's been this way for a while and everyone knows it.

60 percent were getting flat As two years ago. 25 percent getting flat As in early 1990s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically just a technicality since most of the class can then just get A-s. Ridiculous.

I really think that's more or less how it is now. I don't think this is some kind of significant change. An A really hard to get, even now, and an a minus is not as hard. In other words, an A minus is what we would have called a B. I think it's been this way for a while and everyone knows it.

60 percent were getting flat As two years ago. 25 percent getting flat As in early 1990s.

Okay but I know kids that went to Harvard 35 years ago that would never get in there right now. The quality of students at Harvard is higher now that it was in the '90s.

[Anonymous]

It’s a start in the right direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically just a technicality since most of the class can then just get A-s. Ridiculous.

I really think that's more or less how it is now. I don't think this is some kind of significant change. An A really hard to get, even now, and an a minus is not as hard. In other words, an A minus is what we would have called a B. I think it's been this way for a while and everyone knows it.

60 percent were getting flat As two years ago. 25 percent getting flat As in early 1990s.

Okay but I know kids that went to Harvard 35 years ago that would never get in there right now. The quality of students at Harvard is higher now that it was in the '90s.

It is harder to get into Harvard now but that does not mean the ability of students to do academically rigorous work is higher.

[Anonymous]

I'm guessing this was the compromise. No professor likes being told how to grade. But everyone can see all the As are ridiculous.

Unlimited A minuses are their solution. Which is a very Harvard thing to do. A veneer of principle while nothing changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well that's stupid for quantitative courses, where more than 20% of the students can get everything numerically correct on their exams.

But I'm sure they'll figure it out.

I do not think you understand how quantitative exams work at ivy/elites: the problems are complex, sometimes a few will be unsolveable just to put them out there in case. Most professors enjoy putting a few problems or even half the exam that are esoteric, phd and post doc level research problems. They do it on p-sets too. This applies to calc, O-chem, physics, quantum, thermo, etc. At the highest levels there are not clear cut answers, that is why there are professors who spend their lives studying these fields. The unknowns are past the edges of current knowledge.
That is what makes attending this level of school so exciting for the brightest college students (yet also frustrating as such students were used to getting easy A+ in high school, 800 on the math SAT no big deal).
They do not expect some problems to be solved. The medians on exams for these courses are 60-75% correct out of 100, and the professors will admit readily that there is no way to get them all right. Occasionally some professors are hell bent on making the median in the 40s or 50s but they still curve it to an A- or B+ in the end.
Even on tests with median around 70, the high-scorer often gets an 85, 87, or maybe 92 out of 100. Once these students understand how college courses work, they are thrilled if they occasionally get the highest or even second or third highest score, their peers then want to be in their study groups. Others are thrilled to merely be around the median score.
Then the results are placed on a curve with a median of A or A- or B+ depending on the school. 30 years ago the medians would be B or B-. Harvard is now saying that a max of 20% or so can get a straight A(4.0), whereas in many upper levels especially, even quantitative classes, have been giving 30-40% flat A.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically just a technicality since most of the class can then just get A-s. Ridiculous.

I really think that's more or less how it is now. I don't think this is some kind of significant change. An A really hard to get, even now, and an a minus is not as hard. In other words, an A minus is what we would have called a B. I think it's been this way for a while and everyone knows it.

60 percent were getting flat As two years ago. 25 percent getting flat As in early 1990s.

Okay but I know kids that went to Harvard 35 years ago that would never get in there right now. The quality of students at Harvard is higher now that it was in the '90s.

Opposite for me. Today’s students are grinders; yesterday’s were truly gifted.

Both have merit of course, but grinders more common than the innate geniuses IMO (I’m neither FWIW).

[Anonymous]

So they're going to have to make tests harder and then grade on a curve.

[Anonymous]

^you learn just as much when a course is challenging at this level, with difficult or unsolveable problems as part of the course, whether the median is set to an A or a B-, though the former is less demoralizing, and also the former does not set apart the median ivy student (A) who is super smart likely top1-2% among all college students from the one who frequently gets one of the top few scores(A) and is almost certainly a 99.9-99.99%ile student. The new system gives at least some separation, and is more in line with what most ivies do. Only Harvard and Brown had gotten this far off track with the 40-60% flat As.