What makes a classroom education elite?

[Anonymous]

Transplant to DC from Western Europe with kids in middle school. I am trying to learn more about college/university life in the US since it is so different from back home.

There is a lot of discussion on this forum about elite schools and the various opportunities they offer outside the classroom, especially professionally. But what I am trying to understand, since I’ll be paying for an education, is what is it about the classroom experience at these schools that provides kids with an elite education? If economics, for example, is taught from the same textbook at Princeton vs Penn State, what makes the Princeton classroom experience elite?

[Anonymous]

The caliber of students, on average, and the cachet of a degree and the network made.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, a lot of it is branding, reputation, and class gatekeeping. There are tons of excellent schools, and certainly some are better than others but this board is far from a representative sample of the actual differences in education versus elitism of the DC area and DCUM in particular. There can also be a lot of variance by program - you can go to an elite school and a mediocre program for your specific field. Do not base your entire opinion/understanding of "elite" from the people here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:what is it about the classroom experience at these schools that provides kids with an elite education?

This is the wrong question to ask. Many, many people want "elite" universities just because of the name on the diploma. That group doesn't care so much about the quality of the actual education. If you're looking for a quality education, I'd look less at the name of the institution.

[Anonymous]

If you get into smaller seminars taught by experienced professor you can really get a lot out of the class and get a lot of personal attention. Some of these require an application so the class is selected by the professor to create a quality seminar experience.

[Anonymous]

"classroom experience"

This Princeton Review survey-based information aligns with the above aspect of your question:

Best Colleges for Classroom Experience | The Princeton Review https://share.google/nyGs9yie2rO9K6DLS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Transplant to DC from Western Europe with kids in middle school. I am trying to learn more about college/university life in the US since it is so different from back home.

There is a lot of discussion on this forum about elite schools and the various opportunities they offer outside the classroom, especially professionally. But what I am trying to understand, since I’ll be paying for an education, is what is it about the classroom experience at these schools that provides kids with an elite education? If economics, for example, is taught from the same textbook at Princeton vs Penn State, what makes the Princeton classroom experience elite?

It's the peers and the faculty. Real example: DC at an ivy, best friend from high school at a LAC between 20 and 30. Course was a humanities course with a different name, used the same text. Both courses had 12-18 students. LAC course discussed the text readings throughout the semester, covered almost all of the textbook, wrote 3 papers, had great discussions. DC's professor assigned readings such that they finished the entire textbook in the first 6 weeks, spent the rest of the time reading and analyzing primary sources comparing and contrasting the points in the text and reasoning through the details. The depth of discussion was deeper. Papers required were over double the length required at the LAC, the reading per week expected was triple that of the LAC.
For stem: compare and contrast syllabi, p-sets and exams from multivariable calc or organic chem at a regular college vs an elite: it is night and day as far as the pace, depth, breadth and complexity covered. Knowing a professor who has taught at both is helpful. We have an ivy professor in the family. Their insight into students and expectations across different schools (their phd, post docs, guest lecturer and now tenure spot were different places).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Transplant to DC from Western Europe with kids in middle school. I am trying to learn more about college/university life in the US since it is so different from back home.

There is a lot of discussion on this forum about elite schools and the various opportunities they offer outside the classroom, especially professionally. But what I am trying to understand, since I’ll be paying for an education, is what is it about the classroom experience at these schools that provides kids with an elite education? If economics, for example, is taught from the same textbook at Princeton vs Penn State, what makes the Princeton classroom experience elite?

It's the peers and the faculty. Real example: DC at an ivy, best friend from high school at a LAC between 20 and 30. Course was a humanities course with a different name, used the same text. Both courses had 12-18 students. LAC course discussed the text readings throughout the semester, covered almost all of the textbook, wrote 3 papers, had great discussions. DC's professor assigned readings such that they finished the entire textbook in the first 6 weeks, spent the rest of the time reading and analyzing primary sources comparing and contrasting the points in the text and reasoning through the details. The depth of discussion was deeper. Papers required were over double the length required at the LAC, the reading per week expected was triple that of the LAC.
For stem: compare and contrast syllabi, p-sets and exams from multivariable calc or organic chem at a regular college vs an elite: it is night and day as far as the pace, depth, breadth and complexity covered. Knowing a professor who has taught at both is helpful. We have an ivy professor in the family. Their insight into students and expectations across different schools (their phd, post docs, guest lecturer and now tenure spot were different places).

I graduated from an Ivy, my wife from a NESCAC SLAC. Unless you are comparing a non-selective LAC to the Ivy this didn’t happen (based on our actual real life experience).

[Anonymous]

Small class size, high caliber of students, access/engagement from professors with students, college-wide resources for support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Transplant to DC from Western Europe with kids in middle school. I am trying to learn more about college/university life in the US since it is so different from back home.

There is a lot of discussion on this forum about elite schools and the various opportunities they offer outside the classroom, especially professionally. But what I am trying to understand, since I’ll be paying for an education, is what is it about the classroom experience at these schools that provides kids with an elite education? If economics, for example, is taught from the same textbook at Princeton vs Penn State, what makes the Princeton classroom experience elite?

It's the peers and the faculty. Real example: DC at an ivy, best friend from high school at a LAC between 20 and 30. Course was a humanities course with a different name, used the same text. Both courses had 12-18 students. LAC course discussed the text readings throughout the semester, covered almost all of the textbook, wrote 3 papers, had great discussions. DC's professor assigned readings such that they finished the entire textbook in the first 6 weeks, spent the rest of the time reading and analyzing primary sources comparing and contrasting the points in the text and reasoning through the details. The depth of discussion was deeper. Papers required were over double the length required at the LAC, the reading per week expected was triple that of the LAC.
For stem: compare and contrast syllabi, p-sets and exams from multivariable calc or organic chem at a regular college vs an elite: it is night and day as far as the pace, depth, breadth and complexity covered. Knowing a professor who has taught at both is helpful. We have an ivy professor in the family. Their insight into students and expectations across different schools (their phd, post docs, guest lecturer and now tenure spot were different places).

I graduated from an Ivy, my wife from a NESCAC SLAC. Unless you are comparing a non-selective LAC to the Ivy this didn’t happen (based on our actual real life experience).

Well PP used a lower-ranked LAC not a WASP school or Bowdoin, so yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The caliber of students, on average, and the cachet of a degree and the network made.

It's a lot this, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The caliber of students, on average, and the cachet of a degree and the network made.

It’s this. Your child is already.ready in the US system, just look at the top 3 kids in the grade. Compare them to the below median kids in the same grade. That’s the difference between Princeton and Penn State.

[Anonymous]

Oftentimes, you can access course syllabus’s online. Try to find a similar course, like intro micro or macro, and compare course pace, material studied, and course requirements. Generally, the better schools will cover more material overall and more primary material, and require more papers. This reflects the caliber of the students, who can move through the material quickly, unpack material themselves, and make sophisticated written arguments about the material.

Small classes encourage more participation and direct professor involvement. Professors (not graduate students) teach and provide context and sophisticated insights into the material, and sometimes invite esteemed individuals to discuss class-relevant material.

Overall - both faculty and students - are working at a higher level and faster pace because they’re smart, motivated, curious, and want to make a difference in the world.

People at the best schools are not interested in just making a living/money in an ordinary career/job; they want to work on bigger issues on a bigger stage to make a difference in the world. So, another part of the difference is the overall motivation and attitude of everyone on campus, which will impact your student because students tend to look to faculty and peers, among others, for role models.

[Anonymous]

There is no meaningful difference. Certain people like pretending there is, and so they pay $90k/yr to live the illusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no meaningful difference. Certain people like pretending there is, and so they pay $90k/yr to live the illusion.

It’s fine to think this, and in some cases there is little difference (eg Penn State and Susquehanna), but there is a huge difference between Princeton and Penn State. Maybe not from a pure money/immediate outcome perspective, but absolutely from an education perspective.

Longer-term outcomes depend on a lot more than education quality, like ambition, gender, job location, industry, marriage partner, etc.