ON-GYN vs Nurse-Midwife

[Anonymous]

Can someone weigh in on the difference between these two paths?

Also, is there a way to kick the choice down the road a little? Can you go to school for nursing and then apply to med school? Or start as pre-med and then switch to nursing without adding time till graduation?

[Anonymous]

Anything is possible....but pre med requirements and nursing school don't overlap as much as you think.

because of the clinical requirements for nursing school - 10-20 hours/week in clinicals, it is often hard to schedule other classes. a midwife will typically work as an RN in labor and delivery for a few years and then return to school for a masters.

you say you don't want to add extra time, but you could consider making sure you are doubling up on requirements (taking chem that will satisfy the nursing major and pre med requirement), taking higher level math. going to summer school to take biology or physics. some nursing programs start freshman year. some you apply to sophomore year.

community college will take 3 years for nursing school if accepted on the first round (it's competitive due to supply and demand) - then you could do pre med classes while working as a nurse.

OB GYN will be college + med school + 4 year residency

Midwife - college + 2-3 years graduate school

[Anonymous]

The nursing path does not offer the science classes that medical school requires. Then, there is that pesky MCAT that is required. Switching to a nursing major isn’t easy either. Most nursing schools have a class limit and classes taken are regimented. 2 years in the classroom + 2 years clinical (in the hospital). Switching midstream would probably delay graduation.

[Anonymous]

I’m a CNM, happy to answer questions (not sure if you’re asking about the education/training or work itself).. Both great paths really depends on what someone is looking for. In my case, I went through one of the direct entry programs and had not worked in L&D prior to starting training.

[Anonymous]

OP here,

So, I know that a direct nursing program doesn't prepare someone for medical school.

But I am wondering about nursing programs like UMD where you take prereqs at the main campus for two years and then go to another campus for two years of nursing. Could a student decide after 2 years that they didn't want nursing and still have enough prereqs to finish something like a B.S. in Biology with the med school prereqs in time?

Or could she start as premed and then if she gets clarity that she wants nursing, get a degree in 3 years (she has a lot of IB credits) and get a 1 year BS to BSN, and still be on track?

We're just trying to figure out what options are.

I'd also love thoughts from anyone about the difference between those two career paths. She'd like to work in underserved communities, particularly urban ones, and is really interested in women's health. She's always wanted to be a doctor but is now having worries that medical school debt will make working in low income communities impossible, and also about the logistics of having children and medical school/residency etc . . . So, she's looking into CNM. Having a couple years to make that decision while start college would be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a CNM, happy to answer questions (not sure if you’re asking about the education/training or work itself).. Both great paths really depends on what someone is looking for. In my case, I went through one of the direct entry programs and had not worked in L&D prior to starting training.

We'd love to know more about what it's like to be a CNM! Can you tell me about your work, and what you see as the differences between your job and an OB-GYN, we'd be really grateful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a CNM, happy to answer questions (not sure if you’re asking about the education/training or work itself).. Both great paths really depends on what someone is looking for. In my case, I went through one of the direct entry programs and had not worked in L&D prior to starting training.

We'd love to know more about what it's like to be a CNM! Can you tell me about your work, and what you see as the differences between your job and an OB-GYN, we'd be really grateful.

Sure! I trained at UCSF in a really wonderful program where all of our intrapartum (L&D) work was at San Francisco General. That was a great experience for me as a trainee because it was a truly integrated service where OBs and CNMs worked together and there was shared respect among our instructors. I had young children at the point I finished my training and decided that for life-work balance I was going to focus on the “Gyn“ side of midwifery which really looks more like women’s health nurse practitioner so my career has been clinic rather than hospital based which is not what people think of when they think of midwifery. The way I explain it to people as a starting point is midwifery is similar to OB/GYN (prenatal, intrapartum, and gyn) but with a more restricted scope. The degree of independence that CNMs have varies from state to state, for some people that is a really important consideration, for others not so much.Obviously OB/GYN involves a longer education with more training hours, managing greater levels of complexity and risk, bigger salary. Depending on where they work CNMs manage significant levels of risk as well but often in consultation with OB. CNN training also builds off a “nursing model“ which tends to be more holistic than the “ medical model” and for that if your kid is thinking about the two they may want to do a little bit of reading and see which feels like a better fit for who they are. I will say my friends from school who are doing full-scope midwifery seem really love their work but the exhaustion and burnout are real. I’m happy with my more limited scope Gyn world because it’s allows me to be focused on health in a holistic way and I don’t miss managing labors and catching babies. So in the end, I probably should’ve just been a nurse practitioner to begin with! Anyway that’s a bit of a ramble not sure answered questions you have but if you’re looking for any additional specific insights glad to make my best attempt to answer

[Anonymous]

Here are MD's nursing pre recs - where she needs to be careful is to take chemistry for science majors, to take calculus. most pre med reqs don't need anatomy or nutrition. so again, it's possible, but you need to be thoughtful.

https://www.nursing.umaryland.edu/academics/undergrad/bachelor-of-science-nursing/#m-accordian-0-1

a post bachelors program is also an option.

is the being "on track" concern about the money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

So, I know that a direct nursing program doesn't prepare someone for medical school.

But I am wondering about nursing programs like UMD where you take prereqs at the main campus for two years and then go to another campus for two years of nursing. Could a student decide after 2 years that they didn't want nursing and still have enough prereqs to finish something like a B.S. in Biology with the med school prereqs in time?

Or could she start as premed and then if she gets clarity that she wants nursing, get a degree in 3 years (she has a lot of IB credits) and get a 1 year BS to BSN, and still be on track?

We're just trying to figure out what options are.

I'd also love thoughts from anyone about the difference between those two career paths. She'd like to work in underserved communities, particularly urban ones, and is really interested in women's health. She's always wanted to be a doctor but is now having worries that medical school debt will make working in low income communities impossible, and also about the logistics of having children and medical school/residency etc . . . So, she's looking into CNM. Having a couple years to make that decision while start college would be helpful.

I can’t speak to this specific school, but the nursing pathway and premed pathway are not interchangeable. You will not be able to graduate in 4 yrs if you switch majors- maybe if you switch after first or second semester freshman year, but passed that you will likely add at least another year on. The nursing sciences and other reqs are not the same as the premed ones.

[Anonymous]

Forget the undergraduate path; these are such different careers. Medical model versus patient-centric nursing model.
We have a nurse who graduated with her BSN last year and pre-med student who came late in her college career to that decision but also was taking a chem-heavy load throughout and will not take their MCAT until the fall.
Their college careers have been so different. Has your daughter considered becoming a CNA to see if she likes patient care. It helped both of our kids make their decisions.

[Anonymous]

I'm a former CNM and here are the main things to consider. I practiced full scope midwifery (gyn care, pre-natal care, labor and delivery) in both a hospital and free-standing birth center (with a few home births for friends) for many years but stopped about a decade ago (the hours were so demanding).

1) Philosophy of care. Midwives are low intervention and very patient focused. OBs will generally come in and catch the baby. Many midwives will actively labor with the woman for as long as it takes to deliver the baby or until their 24 hour shift is up. This is great for the patient (and why many women seek midwifery care) but can be exhausting on the midwife.
2) Restricted scope of care. Midwives don't do c-sections so a midwife always has to have a formal agreement with a physician to step in and operate if needed. If I'm honest, I didn't like this. I chronically wished I had the skill set to solve my own problems.
3) Salary. Ob/gyns will make about 4 times what a midwife makes, if not more.

If I had to do it again, I would have gone to medical school and practiced ob/gyn care with a low intervention/natural bent.

[Anonymous]

midwifery is a undergrad degree at University College Dublin and Trinity College. I think there's a doable path to practicing in the US (only bcs I know a kid doing this who looked into it - no actual knowledge)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a former CNM and here are the main things to consider. I practiced full scope midwifery (gyn care, pre-natal care, labor and delivery) in both a hospital and free-standing birth center (with a few home births for friends) for many years but stopped about a decade ago (the hours were so demanding).

1) Philosophy of care. Midwives are low intervention and very patient focused. OBs will generally come in and catch the baby. Many midwives will actively labor with the woman for as long as it takes to deliver the baby or until their 24 hour shift is up. This is great for the patient (and why many women seek midwifery care) but can be exhausting on the midwife.
2) Restricted scope of care. Midwives don't do c-sections so a midwife always has to have a formal agreement with a physician to step in and operate if needed. If I'm honest, I didn't like this. I chronically wished I had the skill set to solve my own problems.
3) Salary. Ob/gyns will make about 4 times what a midwife makes, if not more.

If I had to do it again, I would have gone to medical school and practiced ob/gyn care with a low intervention/natural bent.

Ob/gyns do a lot of gynecological surgeries, procedures, beyond c-sections as well.