Concerns about TJ Admissions

[Anonymous]

I have a child who is currently in 8th grade, and went to our school's TJ info session last night. After listening to the presentation, I had a couple of concerns.

According to the presenter, the only official records that the admissions people are allowed to take into consideration are grades and experience factors. Everything else is on the essays. No test scores or teacher recommendations. We were counseled that if our child has noteworthy STEM-related achievements or experiences, they should write about it in their reflections essays. This made me wonder - what's to keep children from flat-out lying and inventing a fantastical tale of grand STEM accomplishment? It sounds like the admissions group isn't allowed to cross-check them and cannot even rely on the endorsement of trusted sources like teachers.

Second, I'm somewhat concerned that so much of the admissions process relies on essays. I've been on plenty of hiring committees where some people love a candidate while others consider it awful, and it all hinges on a few relatively mundane lines in their cover letter. I've also had research paper where one reviewer calls the work remarkable and novel, while another recommends it for rejection. It seems like a lot hinges on something that can be taken very subjectively, and the fate of our children depends a lot on having the luck to land sympathetic reviewers.

The presenter refused to comment on the specifics of the process, in terms of how each piece of information is taken into account. This is understandable. However, I'm worried that the information that they have to start with isn't enough to ensure a fair process.

[Anonymous]

You will encounter this same situation along with everyone else during college admissions.

[Anonymous]

I'll add...unfortunately. I didn't mean to be glib. It's just...subjectivity is real. Manufactured ECs likely as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You will encounter this same situation along with everyone else during college admissions.

+1
it is what it is

[Anonymous]

Aren’t teachers’ recommendations also subjective? Say your child won a science fair award? Wasn’t the judging process at the science fair also subjective? There’s also nothing to say that the child whose parents didn’t pay the fair entry fee or the travel costs wouldn’t have in fact been the winner had they entered.

There are a lot of ways to be successful in life. And as you pointed out with your original examples, the majority of life includes subjective determinations by people outside of your sphere of control. Have your child submit an application if they want but please make sure that they know that there are many varied paths to get to their goals in life.

[Anonymous]

The admissions process you want is the old one and they won’t go back so just practice saying holistic process and experience factors without exploding as from now on those are phrases you’ll hear over and over that may otherwise upset you if you don’t learn to have them be white noise.

Also if your kid is beyond amazing, they will stand out whether at TJ or base school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is currently in 8th grade, and went to our school's TJ info session last night. After listening to the presentation, I had a couple of concerns.

According to the presenter, the only official records that the admissions people are allowed to take into consideration are grades and experience factors. Everything else is on the essays. No test scores or teacher recommendations. We were counseled that if our child has noteworthy STEM-related achievements or experiences, they should write about it in their reflections essays. This made me wonder - what's to keep children from flat-out lying and inventing a fantastical tale of grand STEM accomplishment? It sounds like the admissions group isn't allowed to cross-check them and cannot even rely on the endorsement of trusted sources like teachers.

Second, I'm somewhat concerned that so much of the admissions process relies on essays. I've been on plenty of hiring committees where some people love a candidate while others consider it awful, and it all hinges on a few relatively mundane lines in their cover letter. I've also had research paper where one reviewer calls the work remarkable and novel, while another recommends it for rejection. It seems like a lot hinges on something that can be taken very subjectively, and the fate of our children depends a lot on having the luck to land sympathetic reviewers.

The presenter refused to comment on the specifics of the process, in terms of how each piece of information is taken into account. This is understandable. However, I'm worried that the information that they have to start with isn't enough to ensure a fair process.

There is a random element to the process.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP!

I am the parent of a sophomore at TJ. My child is earning excellent grades, loves TJ, and clearly belongs there.

Please read the thread someone created about rigor at TJ, though feel free to ignore the last few pages, which devolved into the same tired bickering. I’m convinced there is a troll here in the AAP section who worked on the admissions revision and/or is part of the FCPS Chief Equity Officer, Nardos King’s 55-person department at Gatehouse.

Once you have an idea of the rigor, please discuss it and help your child decide whether to apply, with one major caveat:

- please do not push them to attend if they do not want to go to TJ.

TJ has far too many students who were forced, by their parents, to go. Don’t be that parent.

As for the revised standards, the opinions about it really don’t matter on an individual basis. They will not change in time for the next admission cycle.

If your child decides TJ is the right fit, by all means, have them apply. There is little to no guarantee of admission (unless you have the right “experience factors” which account for up to 40% of the decision).

TJ is a wonderful opportunity for the right student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t teachers’ recommendations also subjective? Say your child won a science fair award? Wasn’t the judging process at the science fair also subjective? There’s also nothing to say that the child whose parents didn’t pay the fair entry fee or the travel costs wouldn’t have in fact been the winner had they entered.

There are a lot of ways to be successful in life. And as you pointed out with your original examples, the majority of life includes subjective determinations by people outside of your sphere of control. Have your child submit an application if they want but please make sure that they know that there are many varied paths to get to their goals in life.

Teacher recommendations have an element of subjectivity, indeed. However, if a teacher were to make an objective claim along the lines of "student did ..." or "student achieved ...", there's less reason to doubt it or be forced to blindly accept it compared to if the student is claiming it about themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP!

I am the parent of a sophomore at TJ. My child is earning excellent grades, loves TJ, and clearly belongs there.

Once you have an idea of the rigor, please discuss it and help your child decide whether to apply, with one major caveat:

- please do not push them to attend if they do not want to go to TJ.

Thank you for the advice. We are definitely still weighing the pros and cons, but our child definitely seems interested for now. They are involved in some out-of-school STEM activities which they enjoy, and they have some friends currently at TJ who love it, so the momentum seems to be in that direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is currently in 8th grade, and went to our school's TJ info session last night. After listening to the presentation, I had a couple of concerns.

According to the presenter, the only official records that the admissions people are allowed to take into consideration are grades and experience factors. Everything else is on the essays. No test scores or teacher recommendations. We were counseled that if our child has noteworthy STEM-related achievements or experiences, they should write about it in their reflections essays. This made me wonder - what's to keep children from flat-out lying and inventing a fantastical tale of grand STEM accomplishment? It sounds like the admissions group isn't allowed to cross-check them and cannot even rely on the endorsement of trusted sources like teachers.

Second, I'm somewhat concerned that so much of the admissions process relies on essays. I've been on plenty of hiring committees where some people love a candidate while others consider it awful, and it all hinges on a few relatively mundane lines in their cover letter. I've also had research paper where one reviewer calls the work remarkable and novel, while another recommends it for rejection. It seems like a lot hinges on something that can be taken very subjectively, and the fate of our children depends a lot on having the luck to land sympathetic reviewers.

The presenter refused to comment on the specifics of the process, in terms of how each piece of information is taken into account. This is understandable. However, I'm worried that the information that they have to start with isn't enough to ensure a fair process.

The essays are a bit more objective than you are imagining. The process is okay. It may be a bit too stripped down now but the old process was much too complicated. So on the whole, this is better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is currently in 8th grade, and went to our school's TJ info session last night. After listening to the presentation, I had a couple of concerns.

According to the presenter, the only official records that the admissions people are allowed to take into consideration are grades and experience factors. Everything else is on the essays. No test scores or teacher recommendations. We were counseled that if our child has noteworthy STEM-related achievements or experiences, they should write about it in their reflections essays. This made me wonder - what's to keep children from flat-out lying and inventing a fantastical tale of grand STEM accomplishment? It sounds like the admissions group isn't allowed to cross-check them and cannot even rely on the endorsement of trusted sources like teachers.

Second, I'm somewhat concerned that so much of the admissions process relies on essays. I've been on plenty of hiring committees where some people love a candidate while others consider it awful, and it all hinges on a few relatively mundane lines in their cover letter. I've also had research paper where one reviewer calls the work remarkable and novel, while another recommends it for rejection. It seems like a lot hinges on something that can be taken very subjectively, and the fate of our children depends a lot on having the luck to land sympathetic reviewers.

The presenter refused to comment on the specifics of the process, in terms of how each piece of information is taken into account. This is understandable. However, I'm worried that the information that they have to start with isn't enough to ensure a fair process.

The essays are a bit more objective than you are imagining.

It's hard to imagine how when the purpose is to gauge how a student thinks.

The process is okay. It may be a bit too stripped down now but the old process was much too complicated. So on the whole, this is better.

I fail to see where this claim is coming from other than a desire for it to be true. I can understand the multiple posters earlier in the thread saying it is what it is, but this sounds more like a call for me to turn off my critical thinking. I can only hope that the admissions staff reviewing the applications are a bit more humble and down-to-earth in recognizing the limits of the process.

[Anonymous]

Since merit-based evaluation did not yield the intended level of student diversity, the system transitioned to the current subjective, essay-based lottery process. While a school-based quota exists, many students from lower-performing schools decline their offers. Consequently, those spots are reallocated to the top four middle schools, which nurture overwhelming number of FCPS’s advanced STEM students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP!

I am the parent of a sophomore at TJ. My child is earning excellent grades, loves TJ, and clearly belongs there.

Please read the thread someone created about rigor at TJ, though feel free to ignore the last few pages, which devolved into the same tired bickering. I’m convinced there is a troll here in the AAP section who worked on the admissions revision and/or is part of the FCPS Chief Equity Officer, Nardos King’s 55-person department at Gatehouse.

Once you have an idea of the rigor, please discuss it and help your child decide whether to apply, with one major caveat:

- please do not push them to attend if they do not want to go to TJ.

TJ has far too many students who were forced, by their parents, to go. Don’t be that parent.

As for the revised standards, the opinions about it really don’t matter on an individual basis. They will not change in time for the next admission cycle.

If your child decides TJ is the right fit, by all means, have them apply. There is little to no guarantee of admission (unless you have the right “experience factors” which account for up to 40% of the decision).

TJ is a wonderful opportunity for the right student.

And it's is a horrible soul crushing confidence killer for the wrong student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You will encounter this same situation along with everyone else during college admissions.

And during the jobs interview.