Breakthrough vs Takoma PK3

[Anonymous]

We were just offered a PK3 spot at Breakthrough. Currently enrolled at Takoma. Would appreciate feedback from parents of either about that choice.

For Breakthrough: We're concerned our child may not be right for the Montessori approach, that they may need more structure and boundaries to excel. Any thoughts on the traits of kids that were successful and stayed with Breakthrough vs those that decided to leave early on? There's a steep decline in enrollment in the upper classes, is there anything changing to address that or will they continue to have a huge PK3-K class and a big drop off? We'd love to stay in one place PK-6.

Beyond the Monday afternoon sessions, are there opportunities for extracurriculars at Breakthrough? Learning an instrument?

Also wondering about the new Exec Director and school finances. Seems there were some cuts and now with new leadership there may be more. Any insight?

For Takoma: We were excited about Takoma when we toured and enrolled, but we've tried to get in touch with the admin several times over the summer without success. Our child was assigned a class that is mixed PK3 and PK4, despite being a very young PK3, after being told on the tour this wouldn't happen. Any experience in that classroom? Also just general feedback on the admin?

We also understand the teachers switch classrooms every year. Is that true? Why? Finally, how is aftercare for the PK classes? What are they doing? The principal told us they were looking at a new provider, did that happen?

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

If you’re not sure about the mixed age classroom at Takoma then you might consider that Montessori does mixed aged classrooms as well. PK3-K are in a combined classroom.

As for the enrollment drop off that’s pretty common at schools with no MS feed or a bad MS feed. I’d think it would be slightly worse in Montessori as many people like it for ECE but some kids do better in a traditional classroom thereafter.

[Anonymous]

Takoma parent and would highly recommend. PK at Takoma is great. We did mixed aged pk3/pk4 (both mine were very young 3s when they started) and it went great. It’s nice for them to have the older kids in the classroom as role models and usually, they’ll stay with the same teacher/group for pk4 and get the chance to be the “big kid” the following year. It also promotes some nice cross-grade friendships that can remain into the upper grades. There has been some shifting of teachers between classrooms/grades in recent years, and does seem like this year in particular, but it’s not every teacher every year. If you’re looking for somewhere to stay for the whole of elementary school, I’d recommend Takoma over Breakthrough. There is some attrition in upper grades at Takoma and there have been some bumps in the road for upper grades in recent years but overall the experience has been really positive. It’s a great neighborhood school. Facilities and playgrounds are awesome. Staff and teachers are awesome. Admin may be a bit slower to respond during summer - it happens, but the school is good and does PK very well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Takoma parent and would highly recommend. PK at Takoma is great. We did mixed aged pk3/pk4 (both mine were very young 3s when they started) and it went great. It’s nice for them to have the older kids in the classroom as role models and usually, they’ll stay with the same teacher/group for pk4 and get the chance to be the “big kid” the following year. It also promotes some nice cross-grade friendships that can remain into the upper grades. There has been some shifting of teachers between classrooms/grades in recent years, and does seem like this year in particular, but it’s not every teacher every year. If you’re looking for somewhere to stay for the whole of elementary school, I’d recommend Takoma over Breakthrough. There is some attrition in upper grades at Takoma and there have been some bumps in the road for upper grades in recent years but overall the experience has been really positive. It’s a great neighborhood school. Facilities and playgrounds are awesome. Staff and teachers are awesome. Admin may be a bit slower to respond during summer - it happens, but the school is good and does PK very well.

OP here. Thank you so much for this. Very helpful. Love to hear the positive experience.

[Anonymous]

Takoma parent here. Two children. We cannot say enough good things.

Anecdotally - we have friends who love Breakthru as well but have decided to leave to go to their IB DCPS school (in one case, Whittier).

Takoma has challenges, like all schools. Do you live close? Will you want to stay until 5th?

Once we got into Takoma we have not lotteried since. The campus, the teachers, and the admin are wonderful.

We are not a fan of the teachers moving as much this year as years past. The principal seems to be a "my way or the highway" type leader.

Long story bearable: we like it there but have also heard good things about BT.

Resources at a DCPS school are also likely to be better for anything you may need versus even the best charters.

One last note: play ground and outside space at Takoma -- you cannot even compare this to BT. Takoma is a 10/10.

[Anonymous]

My kid did not do well at breakthrough - the class is defined by the behavior of the lowest common denominator, ie the worst behaved. His class had a boy who routinely was disruptive and fled the classroom and when other children went with him, the attitude was “they’ve made the choice not to learn today”.

Our kids math improved but he went in knowing his alphabet in two languages and left not knowing either.

The emphasis on doing little tasks is adorable but as a friend told me about her kids experience at Montessori: my son can polish a shoe, he just can’t tie one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Takoma parent here. Two children. We cannot say enough good things.

Anecdotally - we have friends who love Breakthru as well but have decided to leave to go to their IB DCPS school (in one case, Whittier).

Takoma has challenges, like all schools. Do you live close? Will you want to stay until 5th?

Once we got into Takoma we have not lotteried since. The campus, the teachers, and the admin are wonderful.

We are not a fan of the teachers moving as much this year as years past. The principal seems to be a "my way or the highway" type leader.

Long story bearable: we like it there but have also heard good things about BT.

Resources at a DCPS school are also likely to be better for anything you may need versus even the best charters.

One last note: play ground and outside space at Takoma -- you cannot even compare this to BT. Takoma is a 10/10.

Another Takoma parent here and just flagging that the bolded was a big part of the reason we didn't consider Breakthrough - for pre-K at least we knew we wanted a lot of unstructured play, outdoor time, exercise and fresh air. Takoma has multiple playgrounds, green spaces, a rain garden and raised bed garden, basketball court, baseball diamond, a big separate gymnasium for rainy days . . . Breakthrough simply could not compare on this front.

For Montessori vs. not-Montessori, you have to make your own call there. I know parents who are super committed to the Montessori method, but I'm not sure how parents know when their kid is 2 and they're applying for schools whether it's really the best fit for their kid's personality - I think this is why it has diminishing buy-in as you move up in grades. It's probably workable for 99% of kids in ECE, and then distinctions start to appear.

[Anonymous]

Takoma reminds me of an elementary school you would see in a suburb in Florida or something. Big, beautiful campus with a gym, baseball field, basketball courts, etc..

Now, you want good teachers and academics, too, of course. But PK3 and PK4 enjoy the school for what it is. Make a decision come K, 1, 2, as needed.

[Anonymous]

Another in-bound for Takoma family. We are generally happy with the school. It isn’t perfect but we have not felt compelled to lottery out. Our kid loves the teachers and staff, is happy to go to school and is learning. We have done both the DCPS (free) and paid aftercare options different years. The free DCPS program (may be full?) has the benefit of being staffed mainly by school teachers and staff who are experienced and skilled at managing kids. The paid outside provider program is generally staffed by younger/less experienced people but seems to do more fun activities/less academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid did not do well at breakthrough - the class is defined by the behavior of the lowest common denominator, ie the worst behaved. His class had a boy who routinely was disruptive and fled the classroom and when other children went with him, the attitude was “they’ve made the choice not to learn today”.

Our kids math improved but he went in knowing his alphabet in two languages and left not knowing either.

The emphasis on doing little tasks is adorable but as a friend told me about her kids experience at Montessori: my son can polish a shoe, he just can’t tie one.

All of this. I wanted to love Montessori. I heard all the gushing anecdotes about how great it is, how Montessori kids learn to read earlier and better, how they develop internal drive and discipline....

And then I toured some of my local public and charter Montessori schools and got to know Montessori families and said "this would be a disaster for my child." We put him in regular (albeit high performing) public school instead and it was absolutely the right choice.

And frankly even for these families who are all in on Montessori, I don't see it working for their kids. Their kids struggle to read. They struggle in math. Montessori test scores, when controlling for SES, actually perform worse than regular schools. The parents not-so-quietly lament the behavior problems. They quietly lament that their kids are behind in reading or math and the teachers (sorry, guides) just shrug and say when the kid is ready to learn, they'll learn. I'm not on the inside, I don't have the full picture of what's going on. But my limited view into it is Montessori is not a place with academic structure and rigor and high standards. Great, you can pour water and arrange flowers. But you can't read, and I know which one is more important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid did not do well at breakthrough - the class is defined by the behavior of the lowest common denominator, ie the worst behaved. His class had a boy who routinely was disruptive and fled the classroom and when other children went with him, the attitude was “they’ve made the choice not to learn today”.

Our kids math improved but he went in knowing his alphabet in two languages and left not knowing either.

The emphasis on doing little tasks is adorable but as a friend told me about her kids experience at Montessori: my son can polish a shoe, he just can’t tie one.

This is indicative of our experience as well. We decided to leave midway through PK3. My child is now going into 1st so this was about 3 years ago or so. Things may be significantly better. There was a very disruptive child in the class that the school had a difficult time managing. My child was one of the 3 (that I know of) that were constantly being hit. The child didn't seem to be targeting specific children, just very poor self-regulation and the aid didn't seem to help. The improper response by the school is what ultimately led us to leave. Other minor annoyances made the decision easy.

And my child left doing an amazing job folding laundry. Pretty impressive and definitely a point of pride in herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid did not do well at breakthrough - the class is defined by the behavior of the lowest common denominator, ie the worst behaved. His class had a boy who routinely was disruptive and fled the classroom and when other children went with him, the attitude was “they’ve made the choice not to learn today”.

Our kids math improved but he went in knowing his alphabet in two languages and left not knowing either.

The emphasis on doing little tasks is adorable but as a friend told me about her kids experience at Montessori: my son can polish a shoe, he just can’t tie one.

All of this. I wanted to love Montessori. I heard all the gushing anecdotes about how great it is, how Montessori kids learn to read earlier and better, how they develop internal drive and discipline....

And then I toured some of my local public and charter Montessori schools and got to know Montessori families and said "this would be a disaster for my child." We put him in regular (albeit high performing) public school instead and it was absolutely the right choice.

And frankly even for these families who are all in on Montessori, I don't see it working for their kids. Their kids struggle to read. They struggle in math. Montessori test scores, when controlling for SES, actually perform worse than regular schools. The parents not-so-quietly lament the behavior problems. They quietly lament that their kids are behind in reading or math and the teachers (sorry, guides) just shrug and say when the kid is ready to learn, they'll learn. I'm not on the inside, I don't have the full picture of what's going on. But my limited view into it is Montessori is not a place with academic structure and rigor and high standards. Great, you can pour water and arrange flowers. But you can't read, and I know which one is more important.

PP here... I remember when we checked out the place, I asked about a lot of that, and particularly the ability for montessori kids to transition back into the mainstream system, which is inevitable, at some point, and the explanation they gave was that what's really important is that the kids enjoy learning and are happy learning and want to learn, and if that is in place, the rest will fall into place as well. And that made a lot of sense, and still makes a lot of sense, and I wasn't even that concerned that everything seemed to be so circuitous... a lot of the fun little tasks—the tea-making, the plate washing, the stick sorting, did really seem to be pointing in certain positive directions... but there was so much else which was not going in the right direction. Like, our kid blew his nose when it ran before he entered, and for YEARS after his one year at Breakthrough, he just snorted it, because at Breakthrough, it was a choice to blow your nose (just like knowing your alphabet was a choice). And as gross as I found that, our son was better than others--at pickup time in the winter, there were always three or four kids with snot in long streaks down the front of their shirt, because it was a choice to wipe your nose—with a tissue or anything else. It was shocking.

We did notice that the girls in the class seemed to do much better, and when we complained about the influence of the other kid, the guide pulled us aside and very much off the record told us she would try to steer our son into activities with some of the girls, and it was amazing how much better he did. They also moved him into another after care class, and he went from being one of the pack of kids running wild through the halls (because he made the choice to join the kids behaving poorly) to politely sitting on a little couch and studying a book about dinosaurs or working on craft projects (because that was the norm in the new class).

It reinforced that if you have a good setting and a good cohort, maybe it could work well, but it seemed hard to do that when the whole ethos is to not steer any kid anywhere, and especially so in a public charter environment where they accept any kid, no matter their academic level or behavior challenges. It was fairly obvious that the one particularly disruptive kid in the class (who like most three year olds seemed perfeclty sweet, just not fit for a no-rules-classroom) really needed a classroom with some boundaries and I'm almost certain had some diagnosable behavioral issues. And that's the flaw--they pitch all education as a choice, but so much of it really isn't, and everythign kind of falls apart when those two things collide.

[Anonymous]

OP here: Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. All of these responses are reinforcing our original choice for Takoma and how montesorri may not be right for our kid. I'm sure its great for many.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you made your decision! Just to weigh in for other families considering Breakthrough: we absolutely loved our primary classroom there. It was well-run, nurturing, and we felt our child learned a lot! I think ymmv from guide to guide, based on what I’ve read here. We had a great one

For what it’s worth, Montessori doesn’t mean no rules. It should mean self-directed. In the end that wasn’t a perfect fit for our kid in higher grades, but for lower it was a great fit.

[Anonymous]

Yes, my Montessori school definitely has rules - no running, no climbing furniture, wash your hands, etc. etc.