What level of conversation is normal at the dinner table?

[Anonymous]

DH has both the challenge of growing up with very strange parents and a diagnosis of HFA as an adult. He does not see the need to make conversation or small talk outside of work and big group events, where he knows it’s expected.

I’m exhausted by carrying every conversation at home with our kid. Last night, I said to DH as much and asked DH to please ask DD some questions about her day.

He didn’t and instead kept eating and stayed silent, and she carried most of the conversation.

Later he gave me the silent treatment, slept on the couch, and then blew up at me and said it was emasculating to be told to make conversation at the dinner table. I didn’t keep my cool and said it was embarrassing that he had to be told to actually connect with his daughter.

Pulling back from that: is dinner conversation normal? It was at my house growing up. It was at my friends’ house. It was in college in the dining hall, with my housemates in my 20s, etc. DH says that’s a crazy expectation. It’s not like he’s out of things to say because he’s spent the day talking to us. DD gets frustrated on long rides to school or sports and says he doesn’t talk to her or just makes work calls.

I feel like I’m going crazy and have lost a sense of what is normal in an established nuclear family.

[Anonymous]

With a diagnosis of HFA, he’s not likely to change. The primary challenge is social communication. The experience you had growing up isn’t relevant, because it doesn’t sound like your family members had autism.

[Anonymous]

Yes dinner conversation is normal at our house. Did he change suddenly or has he always been like this? Is he using his diagnosis as an excuse to not have to socialize with his family? I find it strange that he can turn it on for work outings but can’t ask his kid how her day was. How is he with you one on one?

Separatly, I worry that all the personal phone usage has taken away some people’s ability to converse during meal times. I’ve seen couples out to dinner just on their phones instead of talking and it baffles me.

I would find a time to have a “what’s really going on” conversation with him because if there’s something else then you need to know. Also talk to him about the silent treatment and how you don’t deserve that. He can ask you for some time where he needs to process his thoughts but deliberately not responding to hurt you is not ok.

[Anonymous]

Participating in small talk is masking for him. He doesn’t feel a need to mask for his family. Frankly, I get it, to a point. Maybe there is some compromise. It sounds silly, but when my daughter doesn’t want to talk at the dinner table, we make it more structured and do rose, bud, thorn: What was the best thing of the day, what are you looking forward to in the future, and what was the worst thing of the day?

[Anonymous]

Yes, totally normal. He’s wrong, you’re not crazy.

[Anonymous]

My HFA didn't even eat with us at all in the end. Outside he acted like every other person.
He could go days without talking at home, giving silent treatment. Then kicked the bed to get my attention and say something he needed. Zero ability to say what he liked or not. He just went silent, made gurgling noises, even locked me out. I love how they say that the world should be made for ASD. Yeah, let's all lock each other out.
Had I known his diagnoses, I would not have gone anywhere near him. I left and it got worse. He clearly didn't want me to leave, but it became unbearable to me. I gave him a change to get it together, but he was unable. He was not in charge of his feeling or thinking. He is no more, but family acts like he was simply a narcissist.
You are asking a lot from him. You have to become the specialist of his HFA and work with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My HFA didn't even eat with us at all in the end. Outside he acted like every other person.
He could go days without talking at home, giving silent treatment. Then kicked the bed to get my attention and say something he needed. Zero ability to say what he liked or not. He just went silent, made gurgling noises, even locked me out. I love how they say that the world should be made for ASD. Yeah, let's all lock each other out.
Had I known his diagnoses, I would not have gone anywhere near him. I left and it got worse. He clearly didn't want me to leave, but it became unbearable to me. I gave him a change to get it together, but he was unable. He was not in charge of his feeling or thinking. He is no more, but family acts like he was simply a narcissist.
You are asking a lot from him. You have to become the specialist of his HFA and work with him.

That sounds miserable.

[Anonymous]

Get your affairs in order and divorce. It’s your only option.

[Anonymous]

He’s not going to change. You alone must model normal behavior for your child.
I don’t think phones ruined social norms, I think the tv did that- some families chose to watch tv during meals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My HFA didn't even eat with us at all in the end. Outside he acted like every other person.
He could go days without talking at home, giving silent treatment. Then kicked the bed to get my attention and say something he needed. Zero ability to say what he liked or not. He just went silent, made gurgling noises, even locked me out. I love how they say that the world should be made for ASD. Yeah, let's all lock each other out.
Had I known his diagnoses, I would not have gone anywhere near him. I left and it got worse. He clearly didn't want me to leave, but it became unbearable to me. I gave him a change to get it together, but he was unable. He was not in charge of his feeling or thinking. He is no more, but family acts like he was simply a narcissist.
You are asking a lot from him. You have to become the specialist of his HFA and work with him.

This sounds awful but please don't equate this to not meeting people's needs with Autism. Would you say the same of a blind person? Or a person in a wheelchair? Reasonable assistance is warrented!

I wish you the best

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He’s not going to change. You alone must model normal behavior for your child.
I don’t think phones ruined social norms, I think the tv did that- some families chose to watch tv during meals.

I’m the pp that said that phones ruined social norms.

Sometimes my family and I watch tv during dinner. We have a show we only watch all together, we laugh together, we talk about it and quote it later—it’s a shared experience. Sitting on your phone by yourself is largely individual. It’s very different.

[Anonymous]

Dinner conversation is normal but that doesn't make it reasonable to force it on someone who finds it unpleasant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My HFA didn't even eat with us at all in the end. Outside he acted like every other person.
He could go days without talking at home, giving silent treatment. Then kicked the bed to get my attention and say something he needed. Zero ability to say what he liked or not. He just went silent, made gurgling noises, even locked me out. I love how they say that the world should be made for ASD. Yeah, let's all lock each other out.
Had I known his diagnoses, I would not have gone anywhere near him. I left and it got worse. He clearly didn't want me to leave, but it became unbearable to me. I gave him a change to get it together, but he was unable. He was not in charge of his feeling or thinking. He is no more, but family acts like he was simply a narcissist.
You are asking a lot from him. You have to become the specialist of his HFA and work with him.

This sounds awful but please don't equate this to not meeting people's needs with Autism. Would you say the same of a blind person? Or a person in a wheelchair? Reasonable assistance is warrented!

I wish you the best

A blind person can’t choose to see. A disabled person can’t choose to walk. A person with autism can choose to socialize—as is evident with the term “masking”—so when the person only chooses to do that in public and shuts out his family entirely then that’s very much a choice and very different from being blind. I get that it’s tiring/uncomfortable for them, but that goes for introverts and people with anxiety—doesn’t mean they get a pass to shut out the people they love because they’re uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Participating in small talk is masking for him. He doesn’t feel a need to mask for his family. Frankly, I get it, to a point. Maybe there is some compromise. It sounds silly, but when my daughter doesn’t want to talk at the dinner table, we make it more structured and do rose, bud, thorn: What was the best thing of the day, what are you looking forward to in the future, and what was the worst thing of the day?

Stop using that term it’s BS.

[Anonymous]

I’m a teacher and honestly I notice a lot of kids just need time to sit and eat quietly. They don’t view as socializing time. Adults are the same. You’ll have trouble op unless you focus on his interests and build bridges.