GT/LD college-aged son struggling academically

[Anonymous]

DS is a college freshman and has struggled both semesters so far academically.

He has adhd, executive dysfunction and some anxiety. He is GT/LD with an IQ in the mid 130s. He had a 504 plan in his public middle and high schools, which included extra time, small testing spaces, etc. He did very well academically in that setting, including always performed strongly on AP and other standardized tests.

In college he met with the accomodations office and was granted extra time and small test settings there. So those aren’t the issues.

He has been doing poorly on his exams in a variety of social science and humanities classes (these are his main subjects of interest and always did very well in history, social studies etc in HS).

Consistently he is getting the same feedback from professors on these exams - from philosophy to political science to sociology classes - that he clearly knows the material, but is not applying it / analyzing it well.

He’s very discouraged and his confidence is knocked. He preps hard for the exams and knows the material. I don’t know what to tell him.

I’m hoping the kind folks on this board can give me some ideas for ways to help him work on this defecit - or is there some possible LD we should look into besides the generalized conditions I mentioned at the start of my post (I don’t care about labels at all as we’re past that point of his life, but I want to know how to help him learn to compensate, study differently, etc. for whatever part of “how he learns” gives him trouble in this regard).

I’d appreciate any and all advice and suggestions. Thank you.

(He’s got his usual organization, time management etc struggles, too, but he and we are familiar with those and he knows techniques to help him stay on top of those struggles- but this wrinkle is new to him, and it is consistently coming up in all sorts of non-stem subjects.)

[Anonymous]

[quote=AnonymousHe has been doing poorly on his exams in a variety of social science and humanities classes (these are his main subjects of interest and always did very well in history, social studies etc in HS).

Consistently he is getting the same feedback from professors on these exams - from philosophy to political science to sociology classes - that he clearly knows the material, but is not applying it / analyzing it well.



You might try the book, "Thinking Critically in College: The Essential Handbook for Student Success" by Louis Newman. I heard him give a talk on it, and it's about the unwritten expectations that a lot of professors have for students.

Here's a review, too: https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/louis-e-newman/thinking-critically-in-college/

[Anonymous]

How poorly is he doing?
Getting Bs instead of As? Cs?
One or 2 Cs? Some kids take longer to adjust to college expectations. My worst grades were year 1 and then I significantly improved. Same with grad school. It took me some time to figure things out in an elevated new setting.
Could that be happening with your son?

[Anonymous]

Hmm. My GTLD Humanities-oriented college freshman has also seen a dip in his GPA from last year in MCPS (with lots of APs). He has high-functioning autism and ADHD.

I assumed it was:

1. A question of high school grade inflation, which MCPS is known for.

2. Transition to independence - he needed supervision and reminders even as a 12th grader, so now I'm sure he doesn't sleep enough, doesn't eat right, and doesn't exercise enough. There's only so much encouragement I can give from afar.

3. Lack of maturity to think through the in-depth questions, exactly as the profs told your son. That IS the real problem, when you take away the rest, which should fall into place.

I was going to suggest more reading in their subject matter, and more reading on current events generally. I told my son to take advantage of the free subscriptions to WSJ, and I gifted him NYT and WaPo, and told him to go read more in-depth stuff related to his course work. I think these kids lack a lot of context for their classes, because despite being smart, studious kids, they haven't observed life long enough... having ADHD. Another kid their age might have spent years casually observing and taking notes of how life works, but not these kids.

[Anonymous]

What testing format are they? How do they know he understands the information if he can’t analyze it? Are these freshman level classes? Has he visited during office hours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmm. My GTLD Humanities-oriented college freshman has also seen a dip in his GPA from last year in MCPS (with lots of APs). He has high-functioning autism and ADHD.

I assumed it was:

1. A question of high school grade inflation, which MCPS is known for.

2. Transition to independence - he needed supervision and reminders even as a 12th grader, so now I'm sure he doesn't sleep enough, doesn't eat right, and doesn't exercise enough. There's only so much encouragement I can give from afar.

3. Lack of maturity to think through the in-depth questions, exactly as the profs told your son. That IS the real problem, when you take away the rest, which should fall into place.

I was going to suggest more reading in their subject matter, and more reading on current events generally. I told my son to take advantage of the free subscriptions to WSJ, and I gifted him NYT and WaPo, and told him to go read more in-depth stuff related to his course work. I think these kids lack a lot of context for their classes, because despite being smart, studious kids, they haven't observed life long enough... having ADHD. Another kid their age might have spent years casually observing and taking notes of how life works, but not these kids.

Huh I actually see it very differently and more simply: they probably didn’t learn how to write well. Is there a writing center on campus? Assuming that the classes involve writing papers, it also seems like they should be meeting with the professor to make sure they understand the assignments, go over outlines and possibly turn in early drafts for feedback. Could consider a writing tutor as well.

[Anonymous]

I am a former college professor in the humanities and this is an incredibly common issue. On some level, most students face the struggle and some take longer, or need more explicit instructions, to adapt.

My advice to you depends on what kind of school he attends. Is he at a liberal arts college? At a large state school? I taught at a pretty selective liberal arts college and loved teaching the intro to the major class. When I had this kind of issue I would sit down with the students and really break down what they should be doing into steps. So, to give an oversimplified example, let's say we were doing a "close reading of the text," I'd say there are three steps here: 1) notice an interesting literary technique 2) explain and analyze it and 3) interpret. And then I could point out that the student was actually very perceptive with step 1) and gave a good shot at step 3) but without step 2), 3) couldn't substantiate the interpretation (for example). And then we'd talk through what step 2) would entail.

I would always invite students to give me a rough draft beforehand, as long as it was submitted by a certain date. (ANYONE could do this, totally level playing field, but usually only a very hard-working struggling student or the brilliant over-achiever ever would. Usually no one would.) And I would give this kind of feedback on a rough draft.

So my advice is: if you are at a SLAC go to the professors office hours! Ask earnestly for help and step-by-step instructions on how to improve. Ask if an essay can be re-written, not for credit, but just to learn the methods of the discipline. Ask if the professor is willing to read a rough draft before a deadline, and if he/she is not, go to the office hours before the deadline and use those office hours to get specific feedback. At the college where I taught, pretty much every professor provided this kind of support.

If you are at a large state school, I would recommend going to the professors and asking the same questions (with the expectation that you will not get the same amount of time) and then asking if he/she can recommend a grad student to tutor and support. It is very likely that the school has services, and they might be great, but a grad student in the field could be very helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS is a college freshman and has struggled both semesters so far academically.

He has adhd, executive dysfunction and some anxiety. He is GT/LD with an IQ in the mid 130s. He had a 504 plan in his public middle and high schools, which included extra time, small testing spaces, etc. He did very well academically in that setting, including always performed strongly on AP and other standardized tests.

In college he met with the accomodations office and was granted extra time and small test settings there. So those aren’t the issues.

He has been doing poorly on his exams in a variety of social science and humanities classes (these are his main subjects of interest and always did very well in history, social studies etc in HS).

Consistently he is getting the same feedback from professors on these exams - from philosophy to political science to sociology classes - that he clearly knows the material, but is not applying it / analyzing it well.

He’s very discouraged and his confidence is knocked. He preps hard for the exams and knows the material. I don’t know what to tell him.

I’m hoping the kind folks on this board can give me some ideas for ways to help him work on this defecit - or is there some possible LD we should look into besides the generalized conditions I mentioned at the start of my post (I don’t care about labels at all as we’re past that point of his life, but I want to know how to help him learn to compensate, study differently, etc. for whatever part of “how he learns” gives him trouble in this regard).

I’d appreciate any and all advice and suggestions. Thank you.

(He’s got his usual organization, time management etc struggles, too, but he and we are familiar with those and he knows techniques to help him stay on top of those struggles- but this wrinkle is new to him, and it is consistently coming up in all sorts of non-stem subjects.)

My own experience as a history and international studies major is that exams were hard. More is more. You are given a ton of reading to skim and synthesize. If a professor gives sample test essay questions, I'd have him do one to study and then see if the professor would review it to give him some tips. Make sure he goes to any sort of test review the professor offers. Also, I would make sure that whatever he is writing is from a politicial point of view that the individual professor will agree with (even if you don't have the same views, just pretend). Tests are not the time for your kid to get creative or to offer up a hot take.

[Anonymous]

That's a big part of the transition from high school to college. It's no longer enough just to know the material; you have to be able to *think* about the material. I would encourage your son to go to office hours and discuss the material with the professor. Study groups might also help. Challenging himself to go beyond repeating the material in the assignments to think about why that material is important.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for all of these helpful replies, this board is so great. During Passover I ask myself, why is the Special Needs board so much more pleasant and helpful than all other dcum boards

DS is at a medium sized college, and according to him he visits his profs/TAs with regularity, both before exams/big papers and afterwards, and they’ve given him general but not nearly as specific feedback on exams (and generally) than that which the humanities prof above explained they would do. The feedback is basically what I indicated, that he clearly knows the material but isn’t applying it or making connections to real world examples, that he isn’t taking what he has learned and analyzing it. This is part of what is concerning about DS’s difficulties - he’s still having them after having discussions with the profs and trying to implement/improve where they say his defecits lie.

He is and always has been an avid reader and follower of news, history, politics, so he isn’t lacking real world context. (In fact, I think that’s part of how he skated through his high school history and social science classes pretty easily.)

He hardly had any writing exposure in mcps, that is true, but usually this problem has been happening on midterm or final exams, which I think are more reading then short answer type questions, vs lengthy research papers.

Also, it sounds like many students at his college are getting close to straight As, so I don’t think this is a case of all the freshmen need to get used to college grading- he’s in the minority and feels very demoralized.

I know it sounds like I’m just shooting down all of your good advice. I promise I’m digesting it and will encourage DS to use any/all of it he finds useful. I did order the referenced book and will encourage DS to use talking points like those encouraged by the professor.

If anyone has more tips on how DS can practice and grow his analytical and application skills, I’d appreciate them.

Thanks again from OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS is a college freshman and has struggled both semesters so far academically.

He has adhd, executive dysfunction and some anxiety. He is GT/LD with an IQ in the mid 130s. He had a 504 plan in his public middle and high schools, which included extra time, small testing spaces, etc. He did very well academically in that setting, including always performed strongly on AP and other standardized tests.

In college he met with the accomodations office and was granted extra time and small test settings there. So those aren’t the issues.

He has been doing poorly on his exams in a variety of social science and humanities classes (these are his main subjects of interest and always did very well in history, social studies etc in HS).

Consistently he is getting the same feedback from professors on these exams - from philosophy to political science to sociology classes - that he clearly knows the material, but is not applying it / analyzing it well.

He’s very discouraged and his confidence is knocked. He preps hard for the exams and knows the material. I don’t know what to tell him.

I’m hoping the kind folks on this board can give me some ideas for ways to help him work on this defecit - or is there some possible LD we should look into besides the generalized conditions I mentioned at the start of my post (I don’t care about labels at all as we’re past that point of his life, but I want to know how to help him learn to compensate, study differently, etc. for whatever part of “how he learns” gives him trouble in this regard).

I’d appreciate any and all advice and suggestions. Thank you.

(He’s got his usual organization, time management etc struggles, too, but he and we are familiar with those and he knows techniques to help him stay on top of those struggles- but this wrinkle is new to him, and it is consistently coming up in all sorts of non-stem subjects.)

Read Learn Better by Ulrich Boser.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP. Humanities professor here following up after your reply.

I think your son has to go in with a graded paper in hand and say, can you show me how to do this better. If the profs/TAs are being too general he can force their hand a bit. The key is for him to make clear at the outset (and he can do this in an email beforehand) that he would really like some step-by-step instruction because he is trying to learn how to write well - and not that he is asking for a different grade. It's not that I think the instructors will be more generously inclined if he makes this goal clear; it's that the misunderstanding is natural here. Students rarely ask for this kind of help.

I am assuming that most TAs and liberal arts school profs are happy to do this kind of teaching. Even if they aren't, your student has every right to take up their time during office hours. Again, I have always been THRILLED when students were willing to go the extra mile to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm. My GTLD Humanities-oriented college freshman has also seen a dip in his GPA from last year in MCPS (with lots of APs). He has high-functioning autism and ADHD.

I assumed it was:

1. A question of high school grade inflation, which MCPS is known for.

2. Transition to independence - he needed supervision and reminders even as a 12th grader, so now I'm sure he doesn't sleep enough, doesn't eat right, and doesn't exercise enough. There's only so much encouragement I can give from afar.

3. Lack of maturity to think through the in-depth questions, exactly as the profs told your son. That IS the real problem, when you take away the rest, which should fall into place.

I was going to suggest more reading in their subject matter, and more reading on current events generally. I told my son to take advantage of the free subscriptions to WSJ, and I gifted him NYT and WaPo, and told him to go read more in-depth stuff related to his course work. I think these kids lack a lot of context for their classes, because despite being smart, studious kids, they haven't observed life long enough... having ADHD. Another kid their age might have spent years casually observing and taking notes of how life works, but not these kids.

Huh I actually see it very differently and more simply: they probably didn’t learn how to write well. Is there a writing center on campus? Assuming that the classes involve writing papers, it also seems like they should be meeting with the professor to make sure they understand the assignments, go over outlines and possibly turn in early drafts for feedback. Could consider a writing tutor as well.

It’s probably both. Analyzing material including making associations across subjects and then writing about that succinctly and in an organized manner in order to make an argument is a skill. There are parallels in STEM too. This requires both more sophisticated thinking and in certain subjects, the ability to write well. I agree about the writing center because that will help in one area.

[Anonymous]

Is he on stimulants? I know my dc would not have graduated without meds and an executive function coach.

[Anonymous]

Another suggestion for improving performance on papers: if there is a writing tutor on campus, your DS should work with them while writing papers, in advance of submitting. This can be tremendously helpful as it is 1:1 attention, and often gets at lagging writing skills that a professor can spot, but may not have the time to actually help the student with implementing.