APS: New High School forum tonight 7-9 pm at Yorktown

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The Glen Carlyn resident there last night was very loud and vocal about how against Kenmore they are. .

That lady is a nutter. She's the NIMBY of all NIMBY's. She's been busy for YEARS trying to block schools being built in that area. Her own reasons for objecting to a school are purely selfish, but there are some legitimate concerns (not hers) that other neighbors have about student safety with so many walkers in that area. It would take a lot to make this area safe enough for the current walking students as well new HS students who would be walkers. Frankly, I wish they'd address some of these issues now, and not wait for an accident to happen or another school to be built.

The nutter lady posted above, I think (I hope -- please let there not be two of them). The loud person at last night's meeting was a man.

And I see how the new Kenmore HS could end up with an unbalanced demographic mix, but maybe this time the School Board will have grown a spine to deal with Arlington Forest parents.

Sorry, I wasn't at the meeting but I knew that the nutter lady attended so I assumed it was she who was the vocal person. Guess she's got some recruits. Thing is, I don't necessarily disagree with her about Kenmore not being a good choice for a comprehensive "less than" HS, but I don't like her tactics or her motivation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For pete's sake, stop calling these people nutters. WTF is wrong with you? They are citizens who disagree with your opinion of what to do with the land where they live. Have some respect and argue the issues. Do you think name calling improves the quality of discourse here?

And for the record, there were two people arguing the Glen Carlyn POV, a man and a woman, both of whom are perfectly nice people with reasons for what they argued.

OK, fine, they're not nutters. But the man last night, especially, took up valuable time last night at the end of the meeting to shout points he had already made earlier in the evening.

The Arlington Way seems to have become -- and the School Board chair isn't going to be providing leadership out of this -- that you don't have to listen to opposing viewpoints, that you don't have to compromise, and that if someone disagrees with you, it's because they need to hear what you said again.

Those people may be perfectly nice in other situation, and the woman was at least civil, but neither seemed to understand that everyone is going to have to sacrifice something they want to make sure we're meeting all the needs of the community, and they didn't seem to have any solutions, only complaints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this is the Lois I am thinking of, she is a smart and objective thinker trying to solve a problem without letting her personal situation get in the way. I wish we had more school board members like that.

I don't live in Glen Carlyn, but my kid goes to Campbell so I am regularly in the area. Yes, there is open land there, because there are already schools there using the space. In fact, there are over 1500 students currently there. So, rather than have 4k students at WL, lets have 3800 at Kenmore. Let's back traffic up on to route 50, the already gridlocked major commuting route that will take most of the 66 traffic once it is a hot lane. And let's crowd K-12 literally on to one block, take away access to outdoor activities and let the poorest families in the county live through a construction zone. Look at the boundaries of where a Kenmore HS would likely be. The new school would take families from the area of the county with THE HIGHEST CONCENTRATION OF POVERTY IN THE COUNTY (thank you county board and developers for that). And, guess what, the county has an official policy to add thousands of more affordable housing units in that area! It would take from the central and west end of columbia pike, which is almost entirely committed affordable housing and market rate affordable housing. All of those kids currently go to kemore and WL. Don't think for a second all those north arlington parents currently on the western boundary of WL and YT won't fight tooth and nail to keep their kids out of that new HS. And, thanks to the school board's latest WL boundary change, that would leave almost zero diversity at WL. The result, WL and YT are rich white schools. New school and Wakefield are title I schools.

Hello resegregation.

The plan would be to at least move the MS. Maybe the ES too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The NIMBY last night was a man not woman but he was very upset and yelling over people.

I don't at all want to dismiss the neighborhood's concerns. But let's get the math straight. 1500 + 1300 = 2800, not 3800. It's still a lot of kids, yes, but not as many as are being proposed for WL. More like the same number that will be at WL in a couple of years just with the overcrowding.

And again, that is 3800 kids spread between elementary, middle, AND high school versus WL which would be alll HS and competing for spaces in academic and extracurricular programs, and ALL be on same schedule. Totally different animal

[Anonymous]

Here's what I don't understand: what is the *affirmative* case for putting those seats at the Ed Center? I understand the Kenmore site has a lot of drawbacks. For all the reasons stated, it seems like the least bad of some pretty questionable options. But, am I missing why NVD and others affirmatively think the Ed Center is a *good* idea? Or do they just view it as a less bad option than Kenmore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this is the Lois I am thinking of, she is a smart and objective thinker trying to solve a problem without letting her personal situation get in the way. I wish we had more school board members like that.

I don't live in Glen Carlyn, but my kid goes to Campbell so I am regularly in the area. Yes, there is open land there, because there are already schools there using the space. In fact, there are over 1500 students currently there. So, rather than have 4k students at WL, lets have 3800 at Kenmore. Let's back traffic up on to route 50, the already gridlocked major commuting route that will take most of the 66 traffic once it is a hot lane. And let's crowd K-12 literally on to one block, take away access to outdoor activities and let the poorest families in the county live through a construction zone. Look at the boundaries of where a Kenmore HS would likely be. The new school would take families from the area of the county with THE HIGHEST CONCENTRATION OF POVERTY IN THE COUNTY (thank you county board and developers for that). And, guess what, the county has an official policy to add thousands of more affordable housing units in that area! It would take from the central and west end of columbia pike, which is almost entirely committed affordable housing and market rate affordable housing. All of those kids currently go to kemore and WL. Don't think for a second all those north arlington parents currently on the western boundary of WL and YT won't fight tooth and nail to keep their kids out of that new HS. And, thanks to the school board's latest WL boundary change, that would leave almost zero diversity at WL. The result, WL and YT are rich white schools. New school and Wakefield are title I schools.

Hello resegregation.

The plan would be to at least move the MS. Maybe the ES too.

Again, that is largely dependent on additional land and money becoming available. There's no guarantee. And I, too, have some concerns about how boundaries would be drawn. If past behavior is a predictor of future behavior, I am less than thrilled with the idea of how this would unfold. I'd like to think we'd do a better job with it, but I have no evidence to suggest people wouldn't be just as poorly behaved as the last time around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's what I don't understand: what is the *affirmative* case for putting those seats at the Ed Center? I understand the Kenmore site has a lot of drawbacks. For all the reasons stated, it seems like the least bad of some pretty questionable options. But, am I missing why NVD and others affirmatively think the Ed Center is a *good* idea? Or do they just view it as a less bad option than Kenmore?

Because we own the property
Because it's centrally located
Because NVD decided, and none shall dissent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For pete's sake, stop calling these people nutters. WTF is wrong with you? They are citizens who disagree with your opinion of what to do with the land where they live. Have some respect and argue the issues. Do you think name calling improves the quality of discourse here?

And for the record, there were two people arguing the Glen Carlyn POV, a man and a woman, both of whom are perfectly nice people with reasons for what they argued.

OK, fine, they're not nutters. But the man last night, especially, took up valuable time last night at the end of the meeting to shout points he had already made earlier in the evening.

The Arlington Way seems to have become -- and the School Board chair isn't going to be providing leadership out of this -- that you don't have to listen to opposing viewpoints, that you don't have to compromise, and that if someone disagrees with you, it's because they need to hear what you said again.

Those people may be perfectly nice in other situation, and the woman was at least civil, but neither seemed to understand that everyone is going to have to sacrifice something they want to make sure we're meeting all the needs of the community, and they didn't seem to have any solutions, only complaints.

Yeah, why did he GL H-B woodlawn parent get to just make complaints and statements and not be chastised for not actually having a question like just about every other speaker?

And for most of these residents their complaints are with traffic, which is a solvable problem -- have traffic cops and special school day routing of traffic and sidewalk renovation. Its a 32 acre lot -- schools are going to be built there sooner or later.

Why is Reid being coy and saying we should talk to south arlington residents about why they oppose kenmore? Do I just show up at a Wakefield PTA meeting and quiz people -- be direct for goodness sake.

But other than traffic concerns, WHAT IS THEIR OPPOSITION TO THE KENMORE SITE. Please someone clear this up...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what I don't understand: what is the *affirmative* case for putting those seats at the Ed Center? I understand the Kenmore site has a lot of drawbacks. For all the reasons stated, it seems like the least bad of some pretty questionable options. But, am I missing why NVD and others affirmatively think the Ed Center is a *good* idea? Or do they just view it as a less bad option than Kenmore?

Because we own the property
Because it's centrally located
Because NVD decided, and none shall dissent

Exactly, other than screwing the students, its the easy answers. Basically imagine it as trailers on steroids.

But don't worry, academic quality wont suffer -- Arlington has expertise in managing enormous schools, SB promises.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's what I don't understand: what is the *affirmative* case for putting those seats at the Ed Center? I understand the Kenmore site has a lot of drawbacks. For all the reasons stated, it seems like the least bad of some pretty questionable options. But, am I missing why NVD and others affirmatively think the Ed Center is a *good* idea? Or do they just view it as a less bad option than Kenmore?

That's a good question. I think that's what it is--a less bad option? Or an equally bad option that's less costly and complicated to execute? Also, I think the survey that went out before the last boundary process, in which (IIRC) current W-L families supported the idea of a 9th grade academy over extensive boundary changes played into this. So, I think W-L is a "victim of its own success" or perceived popularity, in a way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For pete's sake, stop calling these people nutters. WTF is wrong with you? They are citizens who disagree with your opinion of what to do with the land where they live. Have some respect and argue the issues. Do you think name calling improves the quality of discourse here?

And for the record, there were two people arguing the Glen Carlyn POV, a man and a woman, both of whom are perfectly nice people with reasons for what they argued.

OK, fine, they're not nutters. But the man last night, especially, took up valuable time last night at the end of the meeting to shout points he had already made earlier in the evening.

The Arlington Way seems to have become -- and the School Board chair isn't going to be providing leadership out of this -- that you don't have to listen to opposing viewpoints, that you don't have to compromise, and that if someone disagrees with you, it's because they need to hear what you said again.

Those people may be perfectly nice in other situation, and the woman was at least civil, but neither seemed to understand that everyone is going to have to sacrifice something they want to make sure we're meeting all the needs of the community, and they didn't seem to have any solutions, only complaints.

Are you sure? They solutions they offered to me were to pick one of the other two options, or to put some of the other land options back in rather than the Kenmore one, which according to them wasn't even supposed to be on the table until the School Board changed their mind at the last minute and reordered the list to include it.

Furthermore, here YOU are talking about sacrificing for the greater good, but the Kenmore plan YOU AND I are offering as a solution to this problem doesn't inconvenience me (or you, I'd hazard) one bit. Oh sure, my kid is already inconvenienced by general APS nonsense, but this particular plan doesn't make my options smaller. For this family, it cuts down their green space, it seems sure to increase their already terrible traffic situation which is from what I'm hearing already the worst in the County but nobody seems interested enough to help them. AND there seems a good chance that the promises of redistricting to achieve equity aren't really going to work out as many of us are wanting, AND by the way you might not get a stadium or a pool, and if you do it won't be for another 20 years maybe, but hey please make some sacrifices so us Northern folks won't be overly inconvenienced!

Don't you see that you have become the thing you seem to most despise about the Arlington Way -- you are making your points about sacrifice and the greater good over and over without listening to how ACTUALLY INEQUITABLE things will be for the people who will go to Kenmore. But you just keep making them because you're sure you're right. Just say it again and we will all agree with you, even the nutters.

Where I'm standing, you are probably a parent who thinks Yorktown traffic is worse than anywhere else (which is clearly wrong) and who thinks Yorktown shouldn't be asked to relieve the W-L situation even though W-L has 2,300 and Yorktown has 1,600 (which is also clearly wrong). We are all in our own little bubbles, the trick is to see outside of them into other people's bubbles.

[Anonymous]

And if I were outnumbered 40-2 at a meeting, I would probably also take up valuable time at the end of the meeting representing my POV to people who either didn't seem to be listening to a word I had said or didn't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody in North Arlington seems to know why people in South Arlington hate the Kenmore idea. I'm sorry, but North Arlington people on my team, doesn't that give you pause a bit?

Did you hear Lois at the meeting last night saying a 4th Comprehensive probably wouldn't get a full football field or a pool? If we were putting a school like that in North Arlington, you think parents would sit for that?

The School Board came up with these 3 options of Kenmore, the Ed Center, and Arlington Tech space, but apparently there had been two others that were nixed because a high school would have been located too close to an elementary school. But that's essentially what Kenmore will be left with EVEN IF the middle school is eventually moved out of that space, which there is no immediate plan to do, meaning that there will be 3 schools basically on top of one another. Don't we care about that issue just as much if it's in the south?

It's all good and well of you to say to take the parking spaces out so high schoolers won't drive, but I don't see you rushing to take them out of W-L or Yorktown. So there is more inequity.

Is it true that there are no/few bike racks at Kenmore because traffic is so nuts that they don't want to encourage bike riding since it will result in accidents?

It is rich for people in the North to keep talking about "the greater good" when they are not being asked to sacrifice their parks and their amenities. I am one of those people in the North who is pro-Kenmore as a fourth site! But we can't keep dismissing the actual concerns of the people who live in the affected area! Did any of us go to the Glen Carlyn meeting to hear what those concerns were? No! WTF is wrong with us?

At the capacity forum last night, I learned a few things about Kenmore - listening to post meeting conversation:

- Kenmore WILL be built on - if not now, in the future - we have no other sites that big that have so much space
- The Virginia Hospital Carlin Springs property WILL be built on - either it will get a school, some County building OR a developer will buy it.

If I lived in Glen Carlin, I would want to begin developing a master plan now - knowing that development will happen. I would rather have a school than major development. At least you get green space and a play ground! And they should try to get the full fuming and more to get other improvements. Arlington is too small not to fully utilize all of our public spaces. Further, many kids in the North could go to Kenmore. That would help a lot with diversity!

[Anonymous]

Funding not fuming!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For pete's sake, stop calling these people nutters. WTF is wrong with you? They are citizens who disagree with your opinion of what to do with the land where they live. Have some respect and argue the issues. Do you think name calling improves the quality of discourse here?

And for the record, there were two people arguing the Glen Carlyn POV, a man and a woman, both of whom are perfectly nice people with reasons for what they argued.

OK, fine, they're not nutters. But the man last night, especially, took up valuable time last night at the end of the meeting to shout points he had already made earlier in the evening.

The Arlington Way seems to have become -- and the School Board chair isn't going to be providing leadership out of this -- that you don't have to listen to opposing viewpoints, that you don't have to compromise, and that if someone disagrees with you, it's because they need to hear what you said again.

Those people may be perfectly nice in other situation, and the woman was at least civil, but neither seemed to understand that everyone is going to have to sacrifice something they want to make sure we're meeting all the needs of the community, and they didn't seem to have any solutions, only complaints.

Are you sure? They solutions they offered to me were to pick one of the other two options, or to put some of the other land options back in rather than the Kenmore one, which according to them wasn't even supposed to be on the table until the School Board changed their mind at the last minute and reordered the list to include it.

Furthermore, here YOU are talking about sacrificing for the greater good, but the Kenmore plan YOU AND I are offering as a solution to this problem doesn't inconvenience me (or you, I'd hazard) one bit. Oh sure, my kid is already inconvenienced by general APS nonsense, but this particular plan doesn't make my options smaller. For this family, it cuts down their green space, it seems sure to increase their already terrible traffic situation which is from what I'm hearing already the worst in the County but nobody seems interested enough to help them. AND there seems a good chance that the promises of redistricting to achieve equity aren't really going to work out as many of us are wanting, AND by the way you might not get a stadium or a pool, and if you do it won't be for another 20 years maybe, but hey please make some sacrifices so us Northern folks won't be overly inconvenienced!

Don't you see that you have become the thing you seem to most despise about the Arlington Way -- you are making your points about sacrifice and the greater good over and over without listening to how ACTUALLY INEQUITABLE things will be for the people who will go to Kenmore. But you just keep making them because you're sure you're right. Just say it again and we will all agree with you, even the nutters.

Where I'm standing, you are probably a parent who thinks Yorktown traffic is worse than anywhere else (which is clearly wrong) and who thinks Yorktown shouldn't be asked to relieve the W-L situation even though W-L has 2,300 and Yorktown has 1,600 (which is also clearly wrong). We are all in our own little bubbles, the trick is to see outside of them into other people's bubbles.

The WORST traffic in the county? On a north soute route? I really have a hard time buying that. I suspect it is just a lot of older residents who miss the easy drive and parking of Carlington when it was sleepy suburb.

But please educate on this traffic apocalypse on Carlin Springs.