Continue at current school after moving out of boundary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, DCPS is getting rid of principal discretion in favor of clear-cut policies that level the playing field and reduce the opportunity for old-style DC cronyism. Most new residents to DC find this to be a good thing. OP (whose story I can't even get straight - IB at Powell but also zoned for Deal?) would like EOTP schools to continue to allow principals to add and retain children at will based on their ability to be an asset to the school. Got it.

There are parts of the Powell zone (and West) that are zoned for Deal, including Crestwood and parts of 16th St Heights.

This is the real OP (kinda funny how many people have taken up my position) and I'll just say I'm not zoned for Deal but am at an EOTP school I actually like. We would actually be going to MacFarland Middle School if we stayed there. I see what people are saying overall, but I just don't see why there can't be flexibility rather than a one-size fits the city rule. I think the school we're at would be lucky to keep us and I just want the certainty of keeping my kid at that school even if we move to a house that's nearby but outside the boundary. The boundaries are big in some ways, but definitely not when you're on the hunt for a house that's the right fit. Staying in my school boundary severely limits our options even though the difference in distance to the school is often only 5 minutes or less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, DCPS is getting rid of principal discretion in favor of clear-cut policies that level the playing field and reduce the opportunity for old-style DC cronyism. Most new residents to DC find this to be a good thing. OP (whose story I can't even get straight - IB at Powell but also zoned for Deal?) would like EOTP schools to continue to allow principals to add and retain children at will based on their ability to be an asset to the school. Got it.

There are parts of the Powell zone (and West) that are zoned for Deal, including Crestwood and parts of 16th St Heights.

This is the real OP (kinda funny how many people have taken up my position) and I'll just say I'm not zoned for Deal but am at an EOTP school I actually like. We would actually be going to MacFarland Middle School if we stayed there. I see what people are saying overall, but I just don't see why there can't be flexibility rather than a one-size fits the city rule. I think the school we're at would be lucky to keep us and I just want the certainty of keeping my kid at that school even if we move to a house that's nearby but outside the boundary. The boundaries are big in some ways, but definitely not when you're on the hunt for a house that's the right fit. Staying in my school boundary severely limits our options even though the difference in distance to the school is often only 5 minutes or less.

OP, the point is that some people are also happy to do things like rent an apartment within the boundary for a WOTP school for a month or a year, with no intention of living there, solely to get into the school and its feeder pattern. The policy being enacted seems mostly to put an end to that practice.

[Anonymous]

So start with your principal and see what he or she says. I think you would need to play the OOB lottery for next year to guarantee a spot.

Obviously you don't like your school that much if you're not willing to compromise on housing to stay there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, DCPS is getting rid of principal discretion in favor of clear-cut policies that level the playing field and reduce the opportunity for old-style DC cronyism. Most new residents to DC find this to be a good thing. OP (whose story I can't even get straight - IB at Powell but also zoned for Deal?) would like EOTP schools to continue to allow principals to add and retain children at will based on their ability to be an asset to the school. Got it.

This. I think having clear-cut rules is much better. Letting some families stay because they contribute money or time to the school, or because their child is well-behaved or tests well, and not others is patently unfair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, DCPS is getting rid of principal discretion in favor of clear-cut policies that level the playing field and reduce the opportunity for old-style DC cronyism. Most new residents to DC find this to be a good thing. OP (whose story I can't even get straight - IB at Powell but also zoned for Deal?) would like EOTP schools to continue to allow principals to add and retain children at will based on their ability to be an asset to the school. Got it.

There are parts of the Powell zone (and West) that are zoned for Deal, including Crestwood and parts of 16th St Heights.

This is the real OP (kinda funny how many people have taken up my position) and I'll just say I'm not zoned for Deal but am at an EOTP school I actually like. We would actually be going to MacFarland Middle School if we stayed there. I see what people are saying overall, but I just don't see why there can't be flexibility rather than a one-size fits the city rule. I think the school we're at would be lucky to keep us and I just want the certainty of keeping my kid at that school even if we move to a house that's nearby but outside the boundary. The boundaries are big in some ways, but definitely not when you're on the hunt for a house that's the right fit. Staying in my school boundary severely limits our options even though the difference in distance to the school is often only 5 minutes or less.

Yes. And that's the nature of school boundaries. They are somewhat arbitrary, but they exist to keep schools rational and manageable. Every exception has an impact--and lots of exceptions add up.

You are not the only person facing this type of decision. We moved within our school boundary because that was top priority for us. Yes, it limited our options. But we decided that was a trade-off we were willing to make.

If finding the just-right house is your top priority--and I understand why it would be--then you have to accept that you might not get to stay at your current school. If giving your kids certainty and stability is your top priority, then you'll keep them at the same school and confine your housing search to those boundaries.

This is what grown-ups do every single day. Weigh options and make hard decisions. I'm not sure why you think you should be exempt from that burden.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, DCPS is getting rid of principal discretion in favor of clear-cut policies that level the playing field and reduce the opportunity for old-style DC cronyism. Most new residents to DC find this to be a good thing. OP (whose story I can't even get straight - IB at Powell but also zoned for Deal?) would like EOTP schools to continue to allow principals to add and retain children at will based on their ability to be an asset to the school. Got it.

There are parts of the Powell zone (and West) that are zoned for Deal, including Crestwood and parts of 16th St Heights.

This is the real OP (kinda funny how many people have taken up my position) and I'll just say I'm not zoned for Deal but am at an EOTP school I actually like. We would actually be going to MacFarland Middle School if we stayed there. I see what people are saying overall, but I just don't see why there can't be flexibility rather than a one-size fits the city rule. I think the school we're at would be lucky to keep us and I just want the certainty of keeping my kid at that school even if we move to a house that's nearby but outside the boundary. The boundaries are big in some ways, but definitely not when you're on the hunt for a house that's the right fit. Staying in my school boundary severely limits our options even though the difference in distance to the school is often only 5 minutes or less.

Lots of people have limited options--far more limited than yours. The flexibility you are asking for might help you, but it could disadvantage them. If the principal has discretion and gets to pick your kid versus the learning disabled kid whose mom got evicted and is now at DC General, why should they be allowed to pick yours? Policy should not be made based on whether the school "would be lucky to keep" your kid. What if the teacher or principal disagrees and would be happy to be rid of him? What if your current kid is great and you have a second who is a jerk--should the principal be able to keep only one?

If you think there should be a lottery preference for kids who are currently enrolled in the school but would like to move out of bounds, I could see that. Depending on where you move, you might even already get proximity preference. But you're asking for the ability to keep your kid and younger sibs IB for the next decade or more when you may not be part of the neighborhood at all. You're asking for the school to forced to be more crowded than it might want to be. You're asking for a policy that is very rare in the US as a whole--where else can you move out of boundary and keep your kid in his old feeder pattern through 12th grade? If you got what you wanted, what's to stop me getting 5 other families with 4 year olds I know, renting a place like this https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/apa/5202420477.html so we can enroll in K, then moving back to our crappy school zones with the next 13 years of education all secured? Then if the principal had discretion, how should they decide which 6-year-olds get to stay with their friends and get a good education and which ones have to go pound sand?

DCPS should make policies to maximize the quality of peoples' IB schools and the fair distribution of OOB seats--not to make your house-hunting experience simpler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Also, I think the residency police moms are not at these schools... they're more the Janney types.

You're right, I didn't understand that. And I knew there was a reason we didn't move IB for Janney

But the main point is still there. If you want to encourage cohesion and community, you need to have policies that support it.

Janney parent here. We are not obsessed with residency or IB/OOB because we assume most kids are IB (based on the numbers). So we aren't constantly looking around trying to guess who's supposed to be there and who isn't, checking license plates, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, DCPS is getting rid of principal discretion in favor of clear-cut policies that level the playing field and reduce the opportunity for old-style DC cronyism. Most new residents to DC find this to be a good thing. OP (whose story I can't even get straight - IB at Powell but also zoned for Deal?) would like EOTP schools to continue to allow principals to add and retain children at will based on their ability to be an asset to the school. Got it.

There are parts of the Powell zone (and West) that are zoned for Deal, including Crestwood and parts of 16th St Heights.

This is the real OP (kinda funny how many people have taken up my position) and I'll just say I'm not zoned for Deal but am at an EOTP school I actually like. We would actually be going to MacFarland Middle School if we stayed there. I see what people are saying overall, but I just don't see why there can't be flexibility rather than a one-size fits the city rule. I think the school we're at would be lucky to keep us and I just want the certainty of keeping my kid at that school even if we move to a house that's nearby but outside the boundary. The boundaries are big in some ways, but definitely not when you're on the hunt for a house that's the right fit. Staying in my school boundary severely limits our options even though the difference in distance to the school is often only 5 minutes or less.

Lots of people have limited options--far more limited than yours. The flexibility you are asking for might help you, but it could disadvantage them. If the principal has discretion and gets to pick your kid versus the learning disabled kid whose mom got evicted and is now at DC General, why should they be allowed to pick yours? Policy should not be made based on whether the school "would be lucky to keep" your kid. What if the teacher or principal disagrees and would be happy to be rid of him? What if your current kid is great and you have a second who is a jerk--should the principal be able to keep only one?

If you think there should be a lottery preference for kids who are currently enrolled in the school but would like to move out of bounds, I could see that. Depending on where you move, you might even already get proximity preference. But you're asking for the ability to keep your kid and younger sibs IB for the next decade or more when you may not be part of the neighborhood at all. You're asking for the school to forced to be more crowded than it might want to be. You're asking for a policy that is very rare in the US as a whole--where else can you move out of boundary and keep your kid in his old feeder pattern through 12th grade? If you got what you wanted, what's to stop me getting 5 other families with 4 year olds I know, renting a place like this https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/apa/5202420477.html so we can enroll in K, then moving back to our crappy school zones with the next 13 years of education all secured? Then if the principal had discretion, how should they decide which 6-year-olds get to stay with their friends and get a good education and which ones have to go pound sand?

DCPS should make policies to maximize the quality of peoples' IB schools and the fair distribution of OOB seats--not to make your house-hunting experience simpler.

This would be hysterical if it weren't so...hysterical. Is your child sitting in a class with 35 other kids, or what?

Overcrowding is a problem for maybe 10 schools out of something like 150 in the District, and OOB availability has been pretty severely limited in those. Wait lists are longest at PK3 & 4, when no one is guaranteed a seat. The demand goes way down for K and diminishes for each successive grade. There are no hoards of unwashed masses struggling to get into your first grader's class, and it's even less likely for 2nd through 5th grades. Moreover, the new rules have discontinued automatic feeder rights for OOB students.

But let's coddle your fantasy and say there are 10-15 "cheaters" per grade for each elementary feeding Deal (plus Brent/Maury and whatever other school is special on the Hill). So much easier to make your move out/kick out rule a solid one for those schools than to penalize the 100+ other DCPS that are struggling to build and maintain enrollment. You can read it 100 times over in the DC Public Schools threads: most higher SES families are gone like the wind by 2nd or 3rd grade. Where do you think they're going?

As long as the "crappy" neighborhood schools fail to retain a cohort that makes middle school options outside of Deal a viable choice, then you'll just have to keep hyperventilating about class sizes at your high demand schools and the cheating cheaters who want to fill them. Meanwhile, families who are fine with what you call crappy are forced to enter the lottery just because they want to move house - just to satisfy your situation, which affects a small fraction of the DCPS student population.

By the way, students who are homeless are considered "at risk" and get priority consideration over people with addresses. Continuity is vital to these kids and they would not be kicked out, nor denied a seat for living somewhere OOB. But you wouldn't know that.

[Anonymous]

How do you mean discontinued automatic feeder rights?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you mean discontinued automatic feeder rights?

The idea is that if you get in OOB to an elementary school you don't get feeder rights to that school's middle and high school. So if you get into Shepherd OOB you go to your IB school for 6th or play lottery for an open seat elsewhere.

Same thing for the high school transition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, DCPS is getting rid of principal discretion in favor of clear-cut policies that level the playing field and reduce the opportunity for old-style DC cronyism. Most new residents to DC find this to be a good thing. OP (whose story I can't even get straight - IB at Powell but also zoned for Deal?) would like EOTP schools to continue to allow principals to add and retain children at will based on their ability to be an asset to the school. Got it.

There are parts of the Powell zone (and West) that are zoned for Deal, including Crestwood and parts of 16th St Heights.

This is the real OP (kinda funny how many people have taken up my position) and I'll just say I'm not zoned for Deal but am at an EOTP school I actually like. We would actually be going to MacFarland Middle School if we stayed there. I see what people are saying overall, but I just don't see why there can't be flexibility rather than a one-size fits the city rule. I think the school we're at would be lucky to keep us and I just want the certainty of keeping my kid at that school even if we move to a house that's nearby but outside the boundary. The boundaries are big in some ways, but definitely not when you're on the hunt for a house that's the right fit. Staying in my school boundary severely limits our options even though the difference in distance to the school is often only 5 minutes or less.

Lots of people have limited options--far more limited than yours. The flexibility you are asking for might help you, but it could disadvantage them. If the principal has discretion and gets to pick your kid versus the learning disabled kid whose mom got evicted and is now at DC General, why should they be allowed to pick yours? Policy should not be made based on whether the school "would be lucky to keep" your kid. What if the teacher or principal disagrees and would be happy to be rid of him? What if your current kid is great and you have a second who is a jerk--should the principal be able to keep only one?

If you think there should be a lottery preference for kids who are currently enrolled in the school but would like to move out of bounds, I could see that. Depending on where you move, you might even already get proximity preference. But you're asking for the ability to keep your kid and younger sibs IB for the next decade or more when you may not be part of the neighborhood at all. You're asking for the school to forced to be more crowded than it might want to be. You're asking for a policy that is very rare in the US as a whole--where else can you move out of boundary and keep your kid in his old feeder pattern through 12th grade? If you got what you wanted, what's to stop me getting 5 other families with 4 year olds I know, renting a place like this https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/apa/5202420477.html so we can enroll in K, then moving back to our crappy school zones with the next 13 years of education all secured? Then if the principal had discretion, how should they decide which 6-year-olds get to stay with their friends and get a good education and which ones have to go pound sand?

DCPS should make policies to maximize the quality of peoples' IB schools and the fair distribution of OOB seats--not to make your house-hunting experience simpler.

This would be hysterical if it weren't so...hysterical. Is your child sitting in a class with 35 other kids, or what?

Overcrowding is a problem for maybe 10 schools out of something like 150 in the District, and OOB availability has been pretty severely limited in those. Wait lists are longest at PK3 & 4, when no one is guaranteed a seat. The demand goes way down for K and diminishes for each successive grade. There are no hoards of unwashed masses struggling to get into your first grader's class, and it's even less likely for 2nd through 5th grades. Moreover, the new rules have discontinued automatic feeder rights for OOB students.

But let's coddle your fantasy and say there are 10-15 "cheaters" per grade for each elementary feeding Deal (plus Brent/Maury and whatever other school is special on the Hill). So much easier to make your move out/kick out rule a solid one for those schools than to penalize the 100+ other DCPS that are struggling to build and maintain enrollment. You can read it 100 times over in the DC Public Schools threads: most higher SES families are gone like the wind by 2nd or 3rd grade. Where do you think they're going?

As long as the "crappy" neighborhood schools fail to retain a cohort that makes middle school options outside of Deal a viable choice, then you'll just have to keep hyperventilating about class sizes at your high demand schools and the cheating cheaters who want to fill them. Meanwhile, families who are fine with what you call crappy are forced to enter the lottery just because they want to move house - just to satisfy your situation, which affects a small fraction of the DCPS student population.

By the way, students who are homeless are considered "at risk" and get priority consideration over people with addresses. Continuity is vital to these kids and they would not be kicked out, nor denied a seat for living somewhere OOB. But you wouldn't know that.

Actually the PP hit the nail on the head. I really want to hug her for her response. It's hysterical that OP thinks a principal should keep discretion to grant her kid exceptions because she'd be lucky to keep her is laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you mean discontinued automatic feeder rights?

The idea is that if you get in OOB to an elementary school you don't get feeder rights to that school's middle and high school. So if you get into Shepherd OOB you go to your IB school for 6th or play lottery for an open seat elsewhere.

Same thing for the high school transition.

But the DME's plan didn't discontinue feeder rights. There are still automatic rights to the destination middle and high school for OOB kids. If I win the lottery and get an OOB PK4 slot at Shepherd, I have as much right to a spot at Deal and Wilson as someone who lives in-bounds for those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, well, DCPS is getting rid of principal discretion in favor of clear-cut policies that level the playing field and reduce the opportunity for old-style DC cronyism. Most new residents to DC find this to be a good thing. OP (whose story I can't even get straight - IB at Powell but also zoned for Deal?) would like EOTP schools to continue to allow principals to add and retain children at will based on their ability to be an asset to the school. Got it.

There are parts of the Powell zone (and West) that are zoned for Deal, including Crestwood and parts of 16th St Heights.

This is the real OP (kinda funny how many people have taken up my position) and I'll just say I'm not zoned for Deal but am at an EOTP school I actually like. We would actually be going to MacFarland Middle School if we stayed there. I see what people are saying overall, but I just don't see why there can't be flexibility rather than a one-size fits the city rule. I think the school we're at would be lucky to keep us and I just want the certainty of keeping my kid at that school even if we move to a house that's nearby but outside the boundary. The boundaries are big in some ways, but definitely not when you're on the hunt for a house that's the right fit. Staying in my school boundary severely limits our options even though the difference in distance to the school is often only 5 minutes or less.

Lots of people have limited options--far more limited than yours. The flexibility you are asking for might help you, but it could disadvantage them. If the principal has discretion and gets to pick your kid versus the learning disabled kid whose mom got evicted and is now at DC General, why should they be allowed to pick yours? Policy should not be made based on whether the school "would be lucky to keep" your kid. What if the teacher or principal disagrees and would be happy to be rid of him? What if your current kid is great and you have a second who is a jerk--should the principal be able to keep only one?

If you think there should be a lottery preference for kids who are currently enrolled in the school but would like to move out of bounds, I could see that. Depending on where you move, you might even already get proximity preference. But you're asking for the ability to keep your kid and younger sibs IB for the next decade or more when you may not be part of the neighborhood at all. You're asking for the school to forced to be more crowded than it might want to be. You're asking for a policy that is very rare in the US as a whole--where else can you move out of boundary and keep your kid in his old feeder pattern through 12th grade? If you got what you wanted, what's to stop me getting 5 other families with 4 year olds I know, renting a place like this https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/apa/5202420477.html so we can enroll in K, then moving back to our crappy school zones with the next 13 years of education all secured? Then if the principal had discretion, how should they decide which 6-year-olds get to stay with their friends and get a good education and which ones have to go pound sand?

DCPS should make policies to maximize the quality of peoples' IB schools and the fair distribution of OOB seats--not to make your house-hunting experience simpler.

This would be hysterical if it weren't so...hysterical. Is your child sitting in a class with 35 other kids, or what?

Overcrowding is a problem for maybe 10 schools out of something like 150 in the District, and OOB availability has been pretty severely limited in those. Wait lists are longest at PK3 & 4, when no one is guaranteed a seat. The demand goes way down for K and diminishes for each successive grade. There are no hoards of unwashed masses struggling to get into your first grader's class, and it's even less likely for 2nd through 5th grades. Moreover, the new rules have discontinued automatic feeder rights for OOB students.

But let's coddle your fantasy and say there are 10-15 "cheaters" per grade for each elementary feeding Deal (plus Brent/Maury and whatever other school is special on the Hill). So much easier to make your move out/kick out rule a solid one for those schools than to penalize the 100+ other DCPS that are struggling to build and maintain enrollment. You can read it 100 times over in the DC Public Schools threads: most higher SES families are gone like the wind by 2nd or 3rd grade. Where do you think they're going?

As long as the "crappy" neighborhood schools fail to retain a cohort that makes middle school options outside of Deal a viable choice, then you'll just have to keep hyperventilating about class sizes at your high demand schools and the cheating cheaters who want to fill them. Meanwhile, families who are fine with what you call crappy are forced to enter the lottery just because they want to move house - just to satisfy your situation, which affects a small fraction of the DCPS student population.

By the way, students who are homeless are considered "at risk" and get priority consideration over people with addresses. Continuity is vital to these kids and they would not be kicked out, nor denied a seat for living somewhere OOB. But you wouldn't know that.

The new rules did not end feeder rights, and the at-risk preference has not yet been implemented. But you wouldn't know that.

[Anonymous]

We live in Petworth, spent one year at Powell and like it just fine, and then got zoned out in the re-drawn boundaries. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that the only way we can stay at the school is to maintain our current address. I do think it would be great if some families tried out other schools in the area like Bruce Monroe and Truesdale, and also felt it was worth a longer term investment. But if your family has become a part of school family, thrown your support behind its rising status, given time and money, known its students, faculty and parents on a first-name basis, you should be allowed to enroll for as long as you're paying DC taxes.

First off, I sympathize. I'd be PISSED if my kids were zoned out of a school that we had invested in. That said, you seem to be arguing that your presence at the school is more valuable because you have money/time to give. Of course, we know that housing instability is much more of a problem for exactly those kids whose parents DON'T have time or money, and they are the ones most likely to be hurt by the current policy, not you guys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is Not NYC people. There is not way you can compare. In every other part of the country, you move, you go to new school. Period!

But this is not every other part of the country. This is a small city with HUGE income disparity - tiny pockets of concentrated wealth where people don't use the public schools and exponentially more pockets of concentrated poverty where the public schools couldn't possibly close the achievement gap without a middle class pulling them up.

A middle class is what's creating rising EOTP schools. That's a need that's particular to DC, and we're right on the edge of it changing it for the better. Churn doesn't help that.

I think schools have been rising since before a middle class following took hold. Take Truesdell for example, do you really think there's a strong middle class in the testing grades (third grade and above)? I'm sure that having some makes it easier, but the schools seem to be doing something right with or without.

Truesdell? Really? You are using it as an example? Sigh!

Sure. Rising school with no strong middle class in the testing grades AFAIK.

I'd pick another example like Powell or West where scores have risen father, but it's not clear how much of the testing grades are middle class there.

Is there something specific you disagree with?

So only middle class students should/would have strong test scores? Who cares if they are middle class or not if the kids are testing well AND have decent reading scores. I still find it comical that DC considers 30-40% acceptable proficiency scores.