My kid is not smart

[Anonymous]

I was often told I was "not smart" by teachers in elementary and junior high school. However, my parents were always supportive of me. I am very successful now in my chosen career. I also went to a good university, and received an B.S. and M.A.

(IMO)... Do not underestimate the importance of passion, perseverance, and a "good personality" to help pave the way towards a successful future. I know plenty of "smart" people who are floundering through life because they are lacking other key personality traits, such as the ones I listed above.

Also, I learned to accommodate for my academic shortcomings by being super-organized and hardworking (to prove to myself and everyone else that I was smart.) Your daughter will likely discover her learning style and "tricks" over time.

Your daughter is still developing and learning. Please do not limit her by having poor expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't mean this in a snarky way but I think you would benefit from some education counseling to help you develop a more realistic understanding of life and not worry so much. I understand your DD is treading a totally different path than what you're accustomed to - one that you have very little insight to and that worries you. You need some help understanding it. $50K a year is absolutely enough to live on especially if it's only you you're supporting. I gently suggest you re-think your ideas about the need for college in order to have a good life. There's absolutely nothing wrong with blue collar or service jobs. It's honest work and even in the worst economy, people need plumbers and hair stylists.

I think it's unrealistic for you to think that your DD will do well in college - not because she is of low average intelligence but because she hates school so much now and isn't interested in academics. College is far harder than high school. Even people of low average intelligence can do well in the subjects they're interested in. It doesn't seem as if your DD has found a passion. Also, if your DD isn't physically well enough to attend high school what makes you think she'd be able to move away to attend college? Why insist on college immediately after high school? Why not a gap year? Let her get a job for a while and see how that works out. See if she stays healthy enough to keep a job. How about taking a class or two locally? It'd be far cheaper, would give you both a better idea of how college might be for her and would make the transition to living on a campus easier. Having some work/volunteer experience might give her a better idea of what she'd like to do in her life.

I agree, thanks, and that's what I am doing. I am re-thinking my understanding of both what it takes to support oneself, as well as my own ideas about college being an absolute requirement. That's why I posted!
I'm open to every idea, including gap years as well as part time college. Or no college, I don't know. that's why I am asking...I don't know what I don't know.
I can totally see how making 45/50k annually would be enough to support yourself. But assumedly, someday, she is going to have a family. And like PP said, no one plans on getting divorced. So I am wondering, what does one do when they have made 45k a year, have kids, are divorced, and suddenly on their own? I have many friends in that position (some have worked full time jobs making lower salaries, some have only worked part time) and they are completely and totally devastated. one has just gone on welfare. I want my daughter to be fully self sufficient, always. Married and happy, hopefully! But always self sufficient. (and no, I am not divorced and feeling jilted or anything, I am married and I am the breadwinner in the family. This is just from seeing many women in really horrible circumstances because they don't have self sufficient income).

Maybe this should be your real focus--that self sufficiency (in a higher income bracket) might not be attainable in her case. Then you can focus more attention on financial remedies that will supplement her. Parents do it all the time for their kids with special needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was often told I was "not smart" by teachers in elementary and junior high school. However, my parents were always supportive of me. I am very successful now in my chosen career. I also went to a good university, and received an B.S. and M.A.

(IMO)... Do not underestimate the importance of passion, perseverance, and a "good personality" to help pave the way towards a successful future. I know plenty of "smart" people who are floundering through life because they are lacking other key personality traits, such as the ones I listed above.

Also, I learned to accommodate for my academic shortcomings by being super-organized and hardworking (to prove to myself and everyone else that I was smart.) Your daughter will likely discover her learning style and "tricks" over time.

Your daughter is still developing and learning. Please do not limit her by having poor expectations.

+1 I am so worried OP is selling her daughter short because her knowledge is limited to being good at school and equating that with success, which is a limited view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she misses so much school because of her illness, how is she going to work with her chronic condition?

You need to consider whether she will be able to work at all, or whether she will need to start collecting SSDI as an adult. If she is unable to work because of a condition that started in her childhood, she can draw against your SSI contributions as an adult. You need to begin documenting this now, though, and you probably need to talk to a Social Security attorney.

We cant know that she will be able to work, but we can only move forward. We know the deal with SSI already, we aren't ignorant to that possibility.

She's on some pretty hard core drugs that if we can get juggled correctly, might make her number of days in the hospital fewer. Just no telling really. We are cautiously optimistic. We do know from the area organization for this illness that plenty of adults are able to work.

OP, this is a really good point. I would apply now for SSI as it can take years to get approved. If approved, she does not have to accept it if she is able to work but if she is not able to, then at least there is some income for self-sufficiency. I think you are being terribly harsh on your daughter. If she is in pain, on major medications, you don't know if she can live up to her potential. I have chronic pain and it often makes it very hard to do thinks so I can only imagine what your daughter is going through and hope she will get better at some point. I thought the school system had to provide a tutor to chronic medical children in their home. It sounds like she could benefit from 1-1 tutoring vs. just online. I would have struggled with those classes too. If she is taking them, she is very smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you might be surprised by what she ends up capable of doing. I have an adopted brother who sounds similar: low average intelligence, plus some LDs. He struggled at a state college but made it through and now is doing incredibly well in a job where his empathy and people skills really matter. Some similar issues for him, in that everyone else in the family is a super-high-achiever, ivy league schools and tall that. But he is happy and making a very decent income for someone his age. Not everyone is going to be a rocket scientist, but i wouldn't asume your DD won't similarly be able to find a niche in which she is happy and self-supporting and contributing to th world...

Okay here we go, this is what I am looking for!! SO can you tell me, do you know how your adopted brother navigated his options when he was about to graduate high school? How did he decide between college/no college/community college/working, taking a year off, etc...did he use school guidance counselors, or talk to people at colleges, or what?
This is my point, I just don't know where to go to look. I come from a long line of educator parents (teachers and professors) and siblings who just knew the path that was required from the age of about 5!!! It wasn't a question, it was a given.

OP, this is the PP who wrote about my younger brother. He does tend to rely heavily on family for advice and moral support-- i don't know how open your DD is to your advice, but my brother has always been pretty open to taking advice from his family. My parents really pushed him to go to college and get a four year degree. In some ways I've often thought they pushed him too hard academically, but-- he made it, with a lot of assistance from them and from his college's learning support center. He made extensive use of their tutoring services, counseling, etc. The toughest thing for him were the math and language requirements-- he ended up withdrawing from those classes a few times because he was failing, and he finished college in five years as a result. But he kept at it. He is now in a public sector social services job-- he works with at-risk kids. He struggled a bit initially with all the paperwork requirements, whuch are very heavy, but he really loves working with kids and I think he has a lot of insight and empathy, as well as a huge commitment to helping.

I have actually also often thought he might be a good fit for some military jobs-- not as an officer, perhaps, becuase there too you need to be very on top of details to succeed-- but in some specialized enlisted roles, eg, Navy or some such: needless to say, the military has chefs, photographers, mechanics, medical assistants, you name it in addition to people in combat fields, He likes and needs structure, likes and needs feeling like he is part of a team, etc. He just wasn't interested in going in that direction, though.

I sometimes think my parents should have let him make his own mistakes more. I watched from a distance and sometimes felt they just did not give him enough credit: they were so convinced he would fail if they did not tightly control and support him that they would never let him go out on any limbs. Sometimes I felt that they should just give him more space to do things his way. Maybe he would have failed, but so what? He would learn form his mistakes. And maybe he would have surprised them by succeeding.

With your DD, does she have thoughts of her own about what she wants and likes? It may be that you just need to ease up: let her guide you.

If she has medical issues, military is out. That is a very bad plan as there really aren't sick days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Allied Health Fields (nurse, nursing assistant, Physical Therapy assistant, etc).

I would really not recommend nursing for someone with a "low average" IQ. The science prereqs will sink her. I've watched it sink a number of people at the local community college. A nurse has to get through Anatomy, Physiology, Chemistry, and Statistics or College Algebra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Allied Health Fields (nurse, nursing assistant, Physical Therapy assistant, etc).

I would really not recommend nursing for someone with a "low average" IQ. The science prereqs will sink her. I've watched it sink a number of people at the local community college. A nurse has to get through Anatomy, Physiology, Chemistry, and Statistics or College Algebra.

I would not recommend nursing either. It is a very difficult program.
Op I just wanted to leave you with a story about my best friend. She also has low average intelligence. A bit higher than your daughters but nonetheless not above average. She also has a learning disability, dyslexia, and speech impairment. She has a chronic illness as well. It had her out sick much more frequently as a young kid, but is still a factor that causes absences now as a grown adult. Education was never valued in her family, no one had ever done more than graduate high school. She knew she wanted more and wanted to overcome her disabilities. When she realized the importance of education, she became extremely focused. She knew she wanted to graduate high school and go onto college. She is also very personable and gets along well with others. So she worked hard in high school and sought every accommodation she was allotted (remember she had no family support). She went onto to college and wanted to make a difference where a difference had been made for her. She studied special education and is now a kindergarten teacher. Does she still struggle? Every day! But she learned the importance early on of using other people as support when needed and that has helped her along. She gets people to proofread her IEPs before the meetings, but is very knowledgeable when it comes to interventions and learning plans that work because she has lived it!!! She is currently working on a double masters and while it is hard, she knows what she is doing is far more than anyone expected from her and for that she has a sense of pride. She is doing something she loves and giving back to a community that gave so much to her.

My point to you is OP is maybe you can really start to have important conversation about what your daughter is passionate about. Does she like working with the elderly, young people, babies, or even animals? Find out where her passion lies and then finding a career for her that fits that should be easy! But never ever limit your daughter because of her shortcomings. She is just as capable of attending college as your above average family, she may just need more support and that's perfectly okay!

[Anonymous]

OP, I wanted to add a couple of thoughts. First, there are some great training programs (corporate, like Mariott), high schools, and community college programs for hospitality services. The hospitality industry is really great in terms of teaching a set of organizational and management skills to people who are personable and relatively motivated. I credit my decade of working at hotels and banks to creating a good work ethic. And a set of skills you can use anywhere. Next, how about enrolling her with a temp agency so that she could try out a bunch of different job settings? Not all will be winners but she might click with something. In addition, she might enjoy an apprenticeship/training program, your local community college might have some references.
I also think, as much as possible, that you shouldn't worry too much about her. She sounds like a charming young woman who may need a little help figuring out what makes her happy, but that's it. The worries about making money as a divorcee in 20 years is so far down the road (and unlikely to come to pass) that it does no good to think about them now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She will be fine. There are plenty, I mean PLENTY of low average people in jobs all over corporate America. Living in the DC area where people are so competitive and achievement oriented gives you a skewed sense of what kind of life someone should strive for.

Here are some career options that aren't super lucrative but that can be fulfilling and people I know in these careers have good and happy lives.

1. Is she fashionable and into clothing? There are careers in retail. I used to work in corporate HR for a large, well respected retail company. She could get into retail management. Most of the managers I dealt with there were low average intelligence. Sure, she will always have to work black Friday and the day after Christmas, but it isn't so bad.

2. Nursery School teacher, if she likes children. The nursery teachers I know are incredibly happy with their jobs and vary widely in range of intelligence. Some went to smaller regional colleges and some have advanced degrees from Ivy League schools. The one thing they all have in common is that little people truly make them happy and they love helping them meet developmental milestones and love teaching them how to socialize with peers. It isn't rocket science if you have good management and a strong educational foundation.

3. Dental Hygenist. Check out the median pay: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/dental-hygienists.htm
She doesn't even need a BA, though, if your family has the means, she should certainly have one.

4.Property Management. I have friends from high school who work for property management companies in various sales and admin roles. They make between 60-75k and some are of low average intelligence and they are successful and happy. They will never be the big boss and they are ok with that.

If she needs a lot of support, find her a smaller college (not a party place though - avoid cities like New Orleans, Charleston, etc) where she will have individual attention and professors who will encourage her.

Some colleges to consider (that aren't too far from here):

Lynchburg College
McDaniel College
Goucher College
Lycoming College
Hood College

Good advice here, but wondering about this. I went to College of Charleston specifically because it was a school in a city so that I would have things to do otherthan party. I never had large classes — even my English 101 was in a small room with max 20 students. I considered it a great place to go. And to boot, OP, it's pretty easy to get into and probably not that challenging in the grand scheme of things. I went to a great HS in this area and found college to be easy there.

[Anonymous]

One of my high school friends wasn't very smart, but a very sweet person. After working retail for 15-20 years she recently trained as a phlebotomist-and she loves it. She's making more money, better hours, adores her coworkers, etc. I don't know if that would be possible with your daughters medical conditions, and if course you can't be bothered by blood, but it seems more realistic than some of the suggestions for nursing, PA, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I realize that this is an odd post. And I feel odd saying that.

But here's the god honest truth: our daughter has always appeared to us to be just NOT like our two sons. Both our sons are whip smart-straight A's honors, AP, etc.

Our daughter is just NOT.

We've had her tested independently, the outcome said she has "low average intelligence". Then school tested her, and the result was the same: low average. it didn't surprise us.

So the news isn't awful-she's average, just on the low side of average.

Here's my struggle. First, I come from a family of above averages. My boys are above average. My experience is with school/academic focused lives.

I am totally and completely fine with her being low average (there has to be a spectrum, right? otherwise we would be all the same!)

But I don't really know what to do with her. its like I am raising an alien. She's 16 now, so I am thinking about things for her like will she go to college? (In my life, college was NOT optional. And my brain tells me no one can possibly support themselves without a college degree--can they??) She wants to go to college, but I worry...she needs SO much support from us now just to get through high school. How the heck will she manage college?

And then my mind wanders: how will she support herself in general? I try to ask her at times what she is interested in, what does she like, what does she enjoy. She also has inattentive ADHD, so that coupled with her personality, I know she wouldn't be able to do a corporate job. But at 16, she really has no clue what she wants to do. She knows she likes planning things (parties etc) but she isn't detail oriented, so things like event management would be a disaster I think.

This really isn't a post asking for opinions about what she could do for a career--what I am really asking is, does anyone else have a kid who just plain isn't that smart? And how do you approach dealing with them? I feel like my mind needs to open into other possibilities for her (other than the going away to college/graduating and going into corporate America track my boys will surely follow). But I don't even know what those other tracks are.

I'm feeling a little lost. She's 16 years old and I feel as clueless about her future as she does. And I feel horrible as a parent posting something saying "my kid isn't smart", thank god this forum is anonymous!!!!

I have not read any of the replies but there is one thing I want to respond to - and that was your question regarding being able to make a living without a college degree. I know that you probably just wrote that out of panic and frustration but I know A TON of people without a degree that make more money than those with degrees. My DS is of average intelligence at least according to his test results but he is also difficult to test due to his ADHD and inattentiveness. He's 11. I have often told DH that I sometimes hope that he takes an unconventional route and doesn't go to college but trade school - become a plumber, cabinet maker, barber etc. Most of the people I know in those professions make 6 figures.

You need an attitude adjustment. all hope for your DD is far from lost.

[Anonymous]

OP. okay thanks everyone.

My point was not that all was lost, or that I was disappointed, etc etc.
All I was asking is how to go about looking at tracks different than what I personally am familiar with.
For those of you all concerned about her well being, living with a horrid mother who gives her awful messages about what a disappointment she is to me, you couldn't be farther from wrong. But I won't try to convince you, because my energy focus is on raising a happy, well adjusted, confident self-sufficient young woman. And im doing a damn good job thus far.

Thanks to all who provided helpful advice (ie private guidance counselor a, possible ideas about jobs, college thoughts etc).
Thanks!

[Anonymous]

I can't read through all the messages so I apologize if this has been said. MANY colleges have a special-education type support program that supports kids with executive function (organization) problems, needing extended test time, and other accommodations. Research those. One that comes to mind is West Virginia Univ. (or something like that, in WV). I met a girl on a plane whose brother with ADHD thrived there and went from F's to A's. Some community colleges also have such programs. There are also agencies you can pay (sometimes a lot) to do exec function coaching and some prep stuff before college. Blanking on the name--I'm sorry! Probably if you google college and special needs some things will come up. My father had the brilliant idea of sending my sister who was similar to nursing school. What a disaster! Nursing school and careers are BRUTAL and have less to do with bedside manner than with covering one's ass as they rush from patient to patient with too little time and too much work. People skills are SO important. Your daughter will be FINE! I am thinking, at worst, she could be a receptionist in a small office, like a heating and cooling company. They don't need tons of skills, but they are essential for answering the phones and doing some office work. That's a perfectly good job, but I bet she will handle much more. She could continue to be a hostess for many years. Skys the limit. She may not get rich but I know a lot of professors who aren't rich either. If she is sociable she will find fulfillment and maybe take her life's joy from something other than work.

[Anonymous]

Here is a link for examples of colleges. Sorry, it wasn't WV Univ., it was Marshall.

http://www.friendshipcircle.org/blog/2011/12/02/17-great-colleges-for-students-with-special-needs/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Posting in "special needs" because your daughter is of average intelligence? Lady, your kid sounds normal and actually quite gifted in some ways (beautiful, extroverted, social skills, born into a well off family). You need to dial back the judgment and hovering and let her take off as an adult. It sounds like you can afford to help her with college, so do that - focus on getting her into a college that she can graduate from and is a good fit. There is still a massive wage gap between college and no college. After that, chill the fuck out and let go.

Wow, you sound really off. If you read OPs original post, she said her daughter was assessed and that she also had ADHD inattentive type. So, posting here is totally appropriate. Maybe you are the one who should remove yourself from the special needs forum. OP is looking for guidance, not an irate, profane opinion, which is inappropriate and insensitive. Dial back the judgment on OP.