Dartmouth finally publishes their SAT data in the Common Data Set after dropping TO; white enrollment surges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:in our AI future, engineering in the next CS.

Is CS enrollment really going down?

yes. and employment is tanking

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fall 2020 freshmen data sets, ivies:
(Best correlation to today as it was after the 2016 recentering)

25—50(est)--75

Harvard 1460-1520–1580
UPenn. 1460- 1515-1570
Yale. 1470- 1515-1560
Princeton. 1460- 1510–1560
Brown. 1440- 1495- 1550
Dartmouth 1430–1490—1550
Cornell. 1410–1475–1530

Columbia’s does not appear to be available. They had a long history of not publishing it.

Dartmouth ‘s new data set is stronger not weaker; Dartmouth likely remains bottom three in the Ivy League

our high school college counselor very helpfully told my kids that unhooked kids with no major national awards need to be right in btw that 50% and 75% number as a rule. which was helpful when they were doing SAT prep. And my kids were coming from known feeders. Get that SAT up in the 1530/1540 range

How about unhooked kids with good grades and 1570+? What are the chance this kid could get into at least one T15 if applying to all of them assuming ECs are decent and teachers' recs are amazing?

Very high chance. Statistically better than a 60% chance of admission to one T15.

Where is 60% chance coming from? LOL

4% each!

If they were all totally random independent events the chance would be be about 45% not 60%. But since they are not, it isn’t anywhere near 45%. It would almost certainly be much lower.

[Anonymous]

Retake stat 101 brah.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a Dartmouth freshman. Disclaimer: they're our oldest child so I don't have experience with another current day college and I didn't attend an Ivy or similar school myself.

Admission trends there are hard to pin down. Since our kid enrolled we've heard from half dozen legacy families in our larger circle of friends/coworkers/etc whose kids were rejected for the classes of 2029 and 2030. The perhaps most noteworthy is a friend's child whose parents both attended (and met there), are reasonably active alums, sibling attends, had great grades/scores/etc and yet was ultimately rejected. Got into Hopkins, Duke and Princeton (!) unhooked and attends one of these. This stands out as the most wild of the legacy rejections I personally now know but I could share almost a half dozen more that are almost as noteworthy.

The student body is a real mixed group. You have the children of actual billionaires (at maybe the highest concentration anywhere) and many of multi millionaires. They tend to have graduated at or near the very top of prep or boarding school classes. Bright and well trained. Many of this group are Dartmouth legacies.

Then you have the upper middle or professional class kids who are very smart and typical of what one thinks of as high achieving, Ivy level kids. Decent number of Asians in this group. My own child is in here.

Then you have a lot of kids who frankly aren't very remarkable. Most bring rural/geographic diversity and economic diversity. Many struggle. Since we're talking SAT scores, this group often had SAT scores in the 1400s, even 1300s (my kids knows or knew because apparently at some point in early freshman year this comes out in chatter). Dartmouth currently seems to love admitting this demographic (there are many of them) and views admitting them as being a large part of their current mission. I don't know if this is similar at other Ivies or other top 20s as I don't have another kid in college.

Which brings up the question of what the point of an Ivy is. Is it to educate the best and brightest, regardless of prior opportunity? Or is it to give a top opportunity to kids who will benefit most from it? Dartmouth appears to believe very strongly in the second. However, it's meant that kids like mine (a pretty typical DMV high-achiever) are skating through college and not really being challenged. To be frank, my child has a 4.0 and hasn't worked very hard. They will tell you that their high school cohort was by-in-large brighter than many classmates at college. In this regard it's been disappointing. I'm not sure what the rest of the years will hold. I'd be interested in hearing what other Dartmouth parents think.

So, your analysis is that only rich people and their children are intelligent (please don't start screaming about unfair characterizations, wealthy and upper middle class professional people's children are the only one receiving your praise in your words), and you believe that a large population of students are economic diversity or rural diversity. For starters, in a given class, maybe 10-15 students from underrepresented states make up that diversity. Second, being poor doesn't mean you received a poor education-many low income students attended top boarding schools, magnet programs or had academic opportunities through other means. Lastly, it sounds like Dartmouth is "educat[ing] the best and brightest, regardless of prior opportunity," just not falling into the trap that only the wealthy aristocracy deserve a seat. Education has been democratized. Live with it.

+1, you can always tell a DCUM troll because they neglect the real world where FLI are mostly students who are coming from the best schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At the other end of the spectrum, Hopkins saw 50% of their class of 2029 made up of Asian Americans. What gives?

Which would you choose between Dartmouth and Hopkins?
If you are white, ...
If you are Asian, ...

[Anonymous]

Are the rich Dartmouth nepos helping the poor and rural students? I don't think there is a lot of mingling between these groups. Employers are not going to hire an unprepared student just because he went to Dartmouth. They will hire the smart Asian or athlete and prep student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a Dartmouth freshman. Disclaimer: they're our oldest child so I don't have experience with another current day college and I didn't attend an Ivy or similar school myself.

Admission trends there are hard to pin down. Since our kid enrolled we've heard from half dozen legacy families in our larger circle of friends/coworkers/etc whose kids were rejected for the classes of 2029 and 2030. The perhaps most noteworthy is a friend's child whose parents both attended (and met there), are reasonably active alums, sibling attends, had great grades/scores/etc and yet was ultimately rejected. Got into Hopkins, Duke and Princeton (!) unhooked and attends one of these. This stands out as the most wild of the legacy rejections I personally now know but I could share almost a half dozen more that are almost as noteworthy.

The student body is a real mixed group. You have the children of actual billionaires (at maybe the highest concentration anywhere) and many of multi millionaires. They tend to have graduated at or near the very top of prep or boarding school classes. Bright and well trained. Many of this group are Dartmouth legacies.

Then you have the upper middle or professional class kids who are very smart and typical of what one thinks of as high achieving, Ivy level kids. Decent number of Asians in this group. My own child is in here.

Then you have a lot of kids who frankly aren't very remarkable. Most bring rural/geographic diversity and economic diversity. Many struggle. Since we're talking SAT scores, this group often had SAT scores in the 1400s, even 1300s (my kids knows or knew because apparently at some point in early freshman year this comes out in chatter). Dartmouth currently seems to love admitting this demographic (there are many of them) and views admitting them as being a large part of their current mission. I don't know if this is similar at other Ivies or other top 20s as I don't have another kid in college.

Which brings up the question of what the point of an Ivy is. Is it to educate the best and brightest, regardless of prior opportunity? Or is it to give a top opportunity to kids who will benefit most from it? Dartmouth appears to believe very strongly in the second. However, it's meant that kids like mine (a pretty typical DMV high-achiever) are skating through college and not really being challenged. To be frank, my child has a 4.0 and hasn't worked very hard. They will tell you that their high school cohort was by-in-large brighter than many classmates at college. In this regard it's been disappointing. I'm not sure what the rest of the years will hold. I'd be interested in hearing what other Dartmouth parents think.

So, your analysis is that only rich people and their children are intelligent (please don't start screaming about unfair characterizations, wealthy and upper middle class professional people's children are the only one receiving your praise in your words), and you believe that a large population of students are economic diversity or rural diversity. For starters, in a given class, maybe 10-15 students from underrepresented states make up that diversity. Second, being poor doesn't mean you received a poor education-many low income students attended top boarding schools, magnet programs or had academic opportunities through other means. Lastly, it sounds like Dartmouth is "educat[ing] the best and brightest, regardless of prior opportunity," just not falling into the trap that only the wealthy aristocracy deserve a seat. Education has been democratized. Live with it.

+1, you can always tell a DCUM troll because they neglect the real world where FLI are mostly students who are coming from the best schools.

Yes, there's a lot coping in the last couple of pages of this thread. Yes, while your UMC/UC kids will be fine, there are UMC and UC kids getting into HYP because they are interesting and talented. Please don't blame the FGLIs and others for your kids not getting into HYPSM and other top schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fall 2020 freshmen data sets, ivies:
(Best correlation to today as it was after the 2016 recentering)

25—50(est)--75

Harvard 1460-1520–1580
UPenn. 1460- 1515-1570
Yale. 1470- 1515-1560
Princeton. 1460- 1510–1560
Brown. 1440- 1495- 1550
Dartmouth 1430–1490—1550
Cornell. 1410–1475–1530

Columbia’s does not appear to be available. They had a long history of not publishing it.

Dartmouth ‘s new data set is stronger not weaker; Dartmouth likely remains bottom three in the Ivy League

our high school college counselor very helpfully told my kids that unhooked kids with no major national awards need to be right in btw that 50% and 75% number as a rule. which was helpful when they were doing SAT prep. And my kids were coming from known feeders. Get that SAT up in the 1530/1540 range

How about unhooked kids with good grades and 1570+? What are the chance this kid could get into at least one T15 if applying to all of them assuming ECs are decent and teachers' recs are amazing?

Very high chance. Statistically better than a 60% chance of admission to one T15.

Where is 60% chance coming from? LOL

Statistics. Distribution of 1570 scorers spread across Ivy, Ivy plus and top selective colleges. Hint: the top 50 contain the vast majority of these scorers. The top 15 contain more than 1/3rd. While colleges intentionally hide their admission rates by SAT, and the college board only gives out percentiles now, the data is the data.

It doesn't add up, 1/3rd of 1570+ to T15, that's 33%, but only 60% of all applicants submit SAT score, so it's only 20% of chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the other end of the spectrum, Hopkins saw 50% of their class of 2029 made up of Asian Americans. What gives?

Which would you choose between Dartmouth and Hopkins?
If you are white, ...
If you are Asian, ...

We are Asian American and I have two kids who had this exact choice. One kid chose Dartmouth over Hopkins. The other kid got into Dartmouth and Hopkins but ultimately chose Northwestern. Both kids are STEM/pre-med, but Hopkins' reputation as having a grindy culture (backed by the actual experience of our family friend, who is a junior there) and our visit to Baltimore (we ended up driving through some sketchy areas driving up from D.C.) were a turn-off. Same reason why UChicago was not high up on the list for either kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fall 2020 freshmen data sets, ivies:
(Best correlation to today as it was after the 2016 recentering)

25—50(est)--75

Harvard 1460-1520–1580
UPenn. 1460- 1515-1570
Yale. 1470- 1515-1560
Princeton. 1460- 1510–1560
Brown. 1440- 1495- 1550
Dartmouth 1430–1490—1550
Cornell. 1410–1475–1530

Columbia’s does not appear to be available. They had a long history of not publishing it.

Dartmouth ‘s new data set is stronger not weaker; Dartmouth likely remains bottom three in the Ivy League

our high school college counselor very helpfully told my kids that unhooked kids with no major national awards need to be right in btw that 50% and 75% number as a rule. which was helpful when they were doing SAT prep. And my kids were coming from known feeders. Get that SAT up in the 1530/1540 range

How about unhooked kids with good grades and 1570+? What are the chance this kid could get into at least one T15 if applying to all of them assuming ECs are decent and teachers' recs are amazing?

Very high chance. Statistically better than a 60% chance of admission to one T15.

Where is 60% chance coming from? LOL

Statistics. Distribution of 1570 scorers spread across Ivy, Ivy plus and top selective colleges. Hint: the top 50 contain the vast majority of these scorers. The top 15 contain more than 1/3rd. While colleges intentionally hide their admission rates by SAT, and the college board only gives out percentiles now, the data is the data.

It doesn't add up, 1/3rd of 1570+ to T15, that's 33%, but only 60% of all applicants submit SAT score, so it's only 20% of chance.

From Chatgpt, each year there are about average 10k scores 1570+, for T15, in best case, 2500 students are 1570+, worst case, is just 1200. So, it's 12%-25% chance in terms of SAT submitter, not overall chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the other end of the spectrum, Hopkins saw 50% of their class of 2029 made up of Asian Americans. What gives?

Which would you choose between Dartmouth and Hopkins?
If you are white, ...
If you are Asian, ...

It's more about STEM vs Humanities for Asian, maybe more about JHU vs Dartmouth for White?

[Anonymous]

Do colleges think ACT is easier than SAT? For kids with accommodations or all kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do colleges think ACT is easier than SAT? For kids with accommodations or all kids?

You will be surprised by how many "1580 one-sitting" parents here who conveniently left out the "we spent $5000 getting Larlo an ADHD diagnosis to secure 1.5-time accommodations" when bragging. Of course they will then defend that with "it's legit, you know!" How many percent of Stanford kids have accommodations again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strivers: are Asian applicants now hooked at Dartmouth?

Affirmative Action ban and test required did not help Asian at all.

This is contrary to all the data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strivers: are Asian applicants now hooked at Dartmouth?

Affirmative Action ban and test required did not help Asian at all.

Funny because it all started after an Asian kid was shut out and claimed discrimination. That didn’t go as he planned!

(I’m Asian btw )

You have no idea, do you.