How the hell does anyone in California get into college?

[Anonymous]

UCs, Cal in particular, absolutely engage in social engineering. It’s very common to see kids in the top 5%, best ECs skipped over for someone in the top 20% because they meet a racial or socioeconomic institutional goal. UCs are not only test optional but they do not accept letters of reference from counselors or teachers. There is no verification of what you report on your app for admissions other than transcript and AP scores after you are accepted. You only have to report your AP score if you plan to use it for credit. This opens the door to massive cheating on ECs, awards, community engagement, where/if your parents went to school etc. UCs do not care if lie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone talks about how competitive the DMV area is, but it's even worse in California. In the Bay Area, every large high school is just as competitive as Langley or McLean in NOVA. Everyone is taking 15+ AP classes and getting 5s on the scores. Teachers refuse to give out As. Sports teams are impossible to join. Extracurriculars are impossible to stand out. Everyone is doing research, starting non-profits, winning chess tournaments, and doing other niche extracurriculars. And it sucks too because high schools in LA, Orange County, and San Diego are also brutally competitive and cutthroat. It's why someone with straight As in California can get denied from UC Riverside.

It works because there are enough UCs to go around for kids that want to stay in CA. What is amazing is how no one complains about the segregation that occurs in the admissions process.

There are constant complaints and threats of lawsuits regarding UC admissions. You just don’t see as much of it from the east coast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting into a UC not named UC Merced or Riverside is not that hard.

Generally don't suck and be in or near the top 10% of your class, participate in your school's community, show you are a decent human being and you'll get into one of them. Will it be Berkeley or UCLA? That's the crapshoot, but you will get into one of them.

Admission's statistics are available for every high school in the country. It isn't impossible or frankly even that hard because of all the UC's.

You say it isn’t that hard but then also say you have to be in the top 10% of the class which means it is hard to get in particularly at schools with a lot of high achieving kids. UW 3.9 GPA DC with ECs including significant volunteer work applying for a psychology major didn’t get into any UC except Merced nor did several of her friends get into UCs other than Merced or Riverside as well as few who got UCSC.

The top 10% at schools like Lynbrook and Cupertino would eat TJ kids as snacks. Every day is a pressure cooker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Community college is free in California. Many, many intelligent kids opt there first because it makes sense and has guaranteed transfer programs.

But really, I don't know anyone who's been shut out of all UCs and CSUs they applied to.

Does CA have academically more-rigorous community colleges to accommodate those high performing students?

Yes, it has several that are feeders.

+1

As an example, De Anza and Foothill in the Bay Area are basically extensions of Cupertino HS, Paly, Gunn, etc. I’ve had friends who taught at those and taught at prestigious Bay Area colleges, because the community colleges run year around so some junior professors supplement their income that way. They say there is very little difference in quality of student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we are largely saying the same thing. The top tier UCs have a quota by high school with the goal of admitting the best students irregardless of socioeconomic status. I personally agree with this approach — even if it might personally disadvantage DC. Our left leaning policies is one of the prime reasons that I live where I do.

Can you share a link where they say there’s a “quota?”

I have asked UCLA this and they said NO.

If you look at the historical admissions from each high school, you will see the quota. It is not necessarily a bad thing- admit by high school, not an entire applicant pool. The UC's know the high schools and know how many they will take from each, each year.

The number one rule for UC admission: You compete against your high school classmates, not against the broader applicant pool. Pre-covid this was seen in the SAT scores of the colleges. UC's had very average SAT scores, for example UCI's 25th percentile SAT score was below 1100. Even UCLA had 25% of its class in the 1200's.

I don't begrudge this policy choice even though much more accomplished students are rejected as compared to others. [/]

Your conclusion must only apply to applicants who are admitted from lower performing high schools.

If you’re a white male applicant from a Top 5 ranked public high school in California and you’re admitted to UCLA and/or Berkeley, more accomplished applicants who are rejected don’t even exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone talks about how competitive the DMV area is, but it's even worse in California. In the Bay Area, every large high school is just as competitive as Langley or McLean in NOVA. Everyone is taking 15+ AP classes and getting 5s on the scores. Teachers refuse to give out As. Sports teams are impossible to join. Extracurriculars are impossible to stand out. Everyone is doing research, starting non-profits, winning chess tournaments, and doing other niche extracurriculars. And it sucks too because high schools in LA, Orange County, and San Diego are also brutally competitive and cutthroat. It's why someone with straight As in California can get denied from UC Riverside.

UC Riverside accepts 75% of in-state applicants.

Of course, yes someone is part of the 25%...seems hard to believe it is a straight A student taking tons of APs.

At my high school, I was not even in the top 40% despite having straight As in 12 APs

maybe they need to grade harder

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Folsom High in Folsom CA is middle class, mostly white and Asian and has 637 seniors. 42% met or exceeded California's math standards. Grant High School is low income, mostly Black and Hispanic and has 410 seniors. 13% of the students met or exceeded California's math standards.

UCLA
Folsom:
119 applied, 9 admitted
Grant:
27 applied, 6 admitted

So, it sounds like 1.4% of the graduates in both schools were accepted to a UC. My read on that is that UCLA purposely tries to accept the top students from all schools, and this is irregardless of the school’s overall socioeconomic status. I’m not sure if there is anything surprising here, but is that the point you were trying to make?

And to correct, my post above. This seems to be the case for public schools. At least in DC’s case, the well-regarded privates gain acceptances at a much higher (~10 pct rate.

No they don’t and that is easily verified. For top public and private High Schools UCB and UCLA admissions tend to follow the overall acceptance rate for the UC. May be a couple of points above or below in any given year but there isn’t much variability.

[Anonymous]

The UC's are very clear on what they look at. It isn't just who has the highest GPA with the most AP classes. They are public universities that are intended to serve ALL California students in the top 12.5% of their high school class. Not students who have the most opportunities at their high school. That is written into the master plan for higher education in CA that is from 1960. The Cal States are for the top 33% of the class.

UC's look to see if you are in the top 9% of your high school and separately look to see if you are in the top 9% of the state based on class rigor and GPA.


There are 13 factors and of course GPA along with how many advanced classes you took are two of the factors but they also include:

6. Quality of your academic performance relative to the educational opportunities available in your high school.

12. Academic accomplishments in light of your life experiences and special circumstances, including but not limited to: disabilities, low family income, first generation to attend college, need to work, disadvantaged social or educational environment, difficult personal and family situations or circumstances, refugee status or veteran status.

13. Location of your secondary school and residence.

[Anonymous]

Brawley High School is in the Imperial Valley, a rural, mostly imporverished heavily Hispanic community with the major industry being agriculture.

The high school has an enrollment of around 1,600 students. 64 applied to a UC. Of the 64, 48 got into at least one UC (with only 4 being UC Merced).

Hopefully the notion that getting into a UC is impossible has been debunked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Brawley High School is in the Imperial Valley, a rural, mostly imporverished heavily Hispanic community with the major industry being agriculture.

The high school has an enrollment of around 1,600 students. 64 applied to a UC. Of the 64, 48 got into at least one UC (with only 4 being UC Merced).

Hopefully the notion that getting into a UC is impossible has been debunked.

Are you sure that the source you cited doesn't have an advantage in applying to a UC?

[Anonymous]

The UC system is supposed to take anyone with above a 3.0. Prior to the creation of Merced, it was failing at that. Merced was set up to help those qualified students without tippy top statistics, particularly from the Central Valley — and it has done an exceptional job of educating those students. So, yeah. If your goal is to get into UCLA or Berkeley straight out of high school, it is hard to do so but that’s not that different from many other in state flagships.

And, California’s higher ex system includes and is bolstered by the Cal States and their excellent community college system, which helps fill the gaps for students who don’t want to or can’t attend a research school. There’s still stigma around community college but they are far more affordable and Gen Z is particularly mindful of that.

If I were a high school student there are worse places to live than California.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Folsom High in Folsom CA is middle class, mostly white and Asian and has 637 seniors. 42% met or exceeded California's math standards. Grant High School is low income, mostly Black and Hispanic and has 410 seniors. 13% of the students met or exceeded California's math standards.

UCLA
Folsom:
119 applied, 9 admitted
Grant:
27 applied, 6 admitted

So, it sounds like 1.4% of the graduates in both schools were accepted to a UC. My read on that is that UCLA purposely tries to accept the top students from all schools, and this is irregardless of the school’s overall socioeconomic status. I’m not sure if there is anything surprising here, but is that the point you were trying to make?

And to correct, my post above. This seems to be the case for public schools. At least in DC’s case, the well-regarded privates gain acceptances at a much higher (~10 pct rate.

No they don’t and that is easily verified. For top public and private High Schools UCB and UCLA admissions tend to follow the overall acceptance rate for the UC. May be a couple of points above or below in any given year but there isn’t much variability.

It is fairly verifiable, and I stick by my original post. Also note that I said % of total student population NOT the percent accepted from those who chose to apply. The question being tested is how selective they are compared to the total graduating class, and the applicant pool is less relevant in that case. Here is an example:

Per the UC website for Lick Wilmerding applicants to UCLA — 101 applied, 13 admitted, and 6 chose to enroll. Lick’s class size is roughly 140, so that is an admit rate of ~10% of the total class or 13% of applicants accepted. College Prep, Head Royce, Nueva, etc all have some rough version of the same math with the only real difference being how selective the STUDENTS were on applying to a top UC.

Finally, I looked at Mission HS in SF too since that often gets thrown out since the Chronicle ran article on them. For UCLA, they had 7 of 56 applicants accepted (13%), but they also have 260 in their graduating class (~3% of class admitted). In fairness though, 3% is still quite strong, and they do remarkably well when looking at UCB.

Below is the UC database, and you can run this as you desire. Bottom line is that they seem to be aiming to admit the top students in the school…..not the top students in the overall in applicant pool.

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/admissions-source-school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OOS welcomes CA students. Purdue, UIUC, CMU, UM take a lot of CA students.

Isn’t it much more expensive though? ESP compared to living at home and attending a UC or CSU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The UC's admit by high school. So a low performing high school in the ghetto will get as many acceptances as a high performing one.

The trick is to be in one of these school.

University High in Irvine is treated the same as Dominguez High in Compton. University High has 30 plus SAT NMSF, 100 Commended scholars. Dominguez High has zero.

Dominguez High sends the same amount of students to Berkeley and UCLA as does University High.

But is it worth subjecting your kids to a Dominguez High?!

[Anonymous]

I think the relevant denominator is who applies not the school as a whole. That’s who the UCs are comparing for acceptance. Many schools don’t rank (especially privates) so rank or top 10% is irrelevant for those schools.