HB Woodlawn slots

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, APS doesn’t need high school seats. It does need middle school seats. You are “solving” a non-existent problem.

The problem is the unfairness and segregation of HB. It doesn't make sense in a public system.

If you're worried about segregration, you should be a lot more worried about the neighborhood schools.

But that's not your issue is it - you just want to find a reason to hate on HB. Just because your kid didn't get in doesn't mean it's not fair.

I love how HB parents keep complaining about the demographics of neighborhood schools, when HB is literally the least diverse and most white school

No it's not.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, APS doesn’t need high school seats. It does need middle school seats. You are “solving” a non-existent problem.

The problem is the unfairness and segregation of HB. It doesn't make sense in a public system.

If you're worried about segregration, you should be a lot more worried about the neighborhood schools.

But that's not your issue is it - you just want to find a reason to hate on HB. Just because your kid didn't get in doesn't mean it's not fair.

HB's stats on this are worse than any neighborhood HS, including Yorktown.

And I really don't hate HB or options, so you can stop accusing me of that. I just think HB needs a refresh. I'm not suggesting closing it or making it a neighborhood school. It would still be a smaller APS option school in the same location.

Pretty rich that someone who knows nothing about a successful program decides it needs a refresh. Why don't you focus on a refresh of your own kid's school? Where does YOUR kid go? Let's have that conversation.

Meh, I know a bunch of super, super disappointed parents who didn't get their kid in for middle school who would love a shot at a high school spot.

Pretty rich of you to say your kid deserves 7 years of a special school while other kids don't ever get the option.

And they WILL get another shot in the 9th grade lottery for HB. But you didn't know that was a thing did you?

Of course I know that's a thing. You can apply for the lottery every year. But I also know that applicants vastly exceed demand. Some (already privileged) students are still getting 7 years of HB while others are getting none.

No you don't know how it works. You don't know what you don't know, but you still think you need to fix a non existent problem. Sit down. Take a deep breath. Focus on your own kid's school. It'll be ok.

There is nothing a single parent can do on a 3000 student school. Principals are swamped with discipline and disability issues, campaigning for more engaged teachers is absolutely ignored.

Self selected, majority white, lower FARMS, and 1/4 the size of other schools, HB parents have much more of a voice.

A very important factor you are missing is that the teachers are self-selected to teach there. They have to agree to take on a TA (counseling), they have to agree to teach a weird schedule and courseload (4 intense periods per week and a moving schedule, often combined AP/regular classes), they have to agree that they won't have any of the regular educational/structural/disciplinary supports (no bells, no attendance enforcement in high school, very few IEP aides, kids in the halls, open campus), they have very limited opportunities for career progression, and they have to agree to have a different kind of relationship with the students (first names, town meeting with teachers and students).

The teachers are a huge part of why H-B is what it is--and you can't easily describe all that as "pedagogy"--but you also can't easily replicate it or just make more teachers sign up to do all that, esp. for the same pay as a "regular" teaching experience.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t have an issue with the whiteness of HB. I have zero idea how white it is. This was a huge problem in the past for HB, which is one of the primary reasons for the double blind lottery system. It used to be very driven by parent/teacher demand—that is, a lot of dyslexia and ADHD kids who “could not handle” a normal school day but were considered “smart” got sent there. It was very white. And it served as a great safety valve before all this IEP/504 world, and was discriminatory in the sense that it wasn’t for problem kids in the really bad sense ... just kids who needed a different structure. Then it was deemed racist and they revised the lottery.

Now, I have a problem with HB because its mission is completely opaque. It doesn’t mean anything for kids to be “independent” and “self-directed”. That’s just a load of education jargon; it’s not like Spanish immersion where kids are taught in Spanish.

And it does have a HUGE benefit—or at least what most people in our community consider one—its size. Most of us want a smaller HS experience for our children. Given, not every single person, but most of us. And, you get to send your kid there to learn absolutely the same things as every other general public school. Nonsense.

I have one kid at HB and another at a regular APS school. Trust me, the independent self directed program is very real, and very different from regular schools. Just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean it's not real.

Literally the opposite of what they say at information night.

Can you give a concrete example of what it means, I think you are just defending your turf like all HB “Fight Club” Parents

Exactly! What specific differences can you describe between the educational pedagogy of the two programs?

When I’ve asked this question before, moreover, I get responses that described differences endemic to a smaller HS but that don’t actually evidence a distinct educational program that the public should be funding.

That the public should be funding? The public is paying for these kids to go to high school no matter which one they go to or what they study. It pays for IEPs, after school sports, band, counseling, busing...all kinds of things that the comprehensive high schools offer to thousands of kids, some of which are also available at H-B and many of which are not. And if you're talking about the capital costs of the building; again, all three comprehensive high schools were rebuilt since 2000 and we took out enormous bonds to pay for them.

The cost per student at HB is higher, and they still participate in school sports and have whole county busing.

Moreover, they don’t allowed overcrowding like at other high schools which places a burden on neighboring schools.

What are you proposing? We need the high school seats so we can't just shutter it. And the campus doesn't have the facilities to be an all purpose high school. I'm not sure what you think should happen?

Make it high school only and allow it be over capacity by as much as the most over capacity neighborhood school. No longer capped as “small” and at capacity

I'm the one who posted up thread that it should be HS only and focus on the arts. I don't like the open schools pedagogy and think it's outdated.

I'd defer to APS to decide capacity. I don't think overcrowding should be used punitively, but managed across the district to least affect students. I don't believe in punishing students or teacher for being at an option school.

Oh okay. Because you are one person who doesn't like HB's pedagogy, even though you don't really know anything about it, I guess that's decided then.

Perhaps you could contribute substance? You're not creating a good look for HB.

There are lots of people unhappy with the current HB system (see this and other threads) and I think it's time to reevaluate. Keep the good parts and fix the bits that aren't working. I've heard complaints about the mixed AP and non-AP classes at HB, as well as fewer options. It sounds like that would be solved by nixing the middle school and enlarging the HS. It would also allow for students to choose between HB, ArlTech, IB and their neighborhood HS at the same time. That timing makes a lot more sense to me than parents making the decision for kids in 5th grade, largely based on fear of big schools and the desire to have access to a scarce resource.

A few very bitter people want the school to be something other than it is. You don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about re the class options. APS doesn't need high school seats, and the HB middle school seats do serve a needed purpose. If you don't like APS services that only some students receive and others do not, let's start cutting out school sports and theater and IB and AP programs, as other posters have noted.

My special needs kid lotteried into HB in middle school and it has really helped them. They had gone through a lot of bullying in elementary. Now they have found their people. We don't have any particular connections, just managed to lottery in. Not sure why some parents who don't have kids at HB are so focused on it, but why not spend that attention making your home middle and/or high schools better instead of weirdly focusing on messing up something you're not familiar with? HB is great and has lots of involved parents, really doesn't need people who understand nothing about the school, just looking in from the outside, suggesting how to "improve" it.

So your response is that if you're not in the HB club, you wouldn't understand? Nonsense. It's not that special that other parents can't understand it.

Nothing I proposed would change it being a smaller HS option and having involved parents and excellent teachers. Special needs kids could still lotto in. Keep the good, remember?

You also didn't actually respond to the comment about the mixed AP and non-AP classes. It's an issue.

I'm absolutely not bitter about anything. Where exactly did you get bitter? By defending HB and saying capacity shouldn't be used as a weapon against students who attend option school?

Btw, people are focused on HB on this thread because the thread is about HB.

I can tell from your previous comment that you don't understand HB because you said something totally wrong. And someone maybe you keeps asking what's so special and different about HB. So yes, I can tell that non HB parents do not understand it.

I think you're mixing up several posters. I haven't said anything "wrong" about HB and am not the one who keeps asking why it's special. Nor am I the one proposing to pack it full of students or move walls.

However you are treating it like a special club that no one else could possibly understand. It's great if it's been good to your kid, but you have to understand that there are many parents who aren't happy that they didn't get in when they think it would have been excellent option for their kid. They have kids who were bullied or not getting teacher attention and they're justifiably pissed. Hence the suggestion to open up more HS seats and at a time where kids have several options so more kids get to go where they choose. It's not a good look that HB is a public good that only a few get to experience because of a lottery and that is seemingly is being allocated to the most privileged (look at the super low FARMs percentage and other demographics).

But you have to understand that middle school is a really hard time for a lot of kids. There are already too few options in APS. It's really just HB or the regular schools. So taking away the one alternative is a horrible idea. Advocate for more options, not taking away what we already have. In high school, there are already choices - HB, Arlington Tech, IB, plus transfers between high schools. Not everyone wants HB.

HB currently benefits a miniscule number of 6th grade students who only get the option by winning a lottery. It wouldn't be taking away anything--it would be creating a system that is more fair to all.

APS isn't building more options, so stop pretending that's an option.

It most certainly would be taking away an important option for the middle school kids who do apply and get in. Look, it's a relatively small school, without fields or serious facilities like other high schools. It's going to affect roughly the same number of kids whether it's left as is or, as you (crazily imho) suggest, turn it solely into a high school when APS does not need high school seats but does need middle school seats. So your "solution" is going to take away seats from a population that actually has a need (middle school) and provide roughly the same number of seats for a population that does NOT need additional seats (high school). This doesn't really help the high school kids who still need to find the right "fit" because there are actually numerous high school options and ways to transfer, but it definitely hurts the middle school kids who currently would benefit.

It's just a totally bananas "fix" that doesn't help APS and would cost a ton of money that APS doesn't currently have given the total budget crisis to "solve" a "problem" that you have totally made up in your head because of your insane fixation at the lottery issue. Here's a secret: Lots of kids in APS want things that they cannot have. Kids try out for the play and they don't make it. Kids ask to get a certain homeroom teacher and it isn't granted. Kids try out for sports and they don't make it. Kids compete in a spelling bee and they lose. Kids ask to get a certain accommodation and they are denied. Kids ask to get an extension on an assignment and they get denied. People ask for things and they don't always get it and THAT IS A PART OF LIFE, that is how things go sometimes. We applied to ATS and didn't get in and we went on and lived our lives. Later we applied to HB and got in. Did I try to shut down or change the way ATS runs because we didn't win the ATS lottery? No. I went about my life and let the people in charge of that school figure out how to run it.

HB has been a great help to my special needs kid, and serves as such to lots of other special needs (and other) kids who make a point of applying to the lottery. It's not a great choice for everyone. There are tradeoffs. You are saying that a lottery isn't fair and doesn't benefit everyone so it should be taken away, when the high school option you would provide would still be a lottery and would therefore still be the same amount of "unfair" that incenses you now. Moreover you would be killing the middle school escape route that does currently benefit many middle school kids who legit have no other option besides private school. You don't know what you're talking about and would hurt more than you would help, and add expense and disruption on top of that. Your kind of parental involvement -- thinking you know better than people who are actually directly involved in a school and who think they are super smart and therefore won't shut up about how they would "improve" (lol) things -- is what's wrong with APS.

1) Aps absolutely needs more high school seats. Middle school seats are plentiful just misallocated. Let’s move an HB type program to within WMS, like Immersion is within Gunston.

2) are all HB parents as insufferable — your wall of text is unhinged.

This is a lame response that either just inexplicably throws up its hands and ignores the very real problems the prior comment pointed out or proposes a totally new out-of-the-blue and absolutely NOT ASKED FOR “solution” to the middle school problem that would take additional thousands/millions of dollars to implement (that APS doesn’t have) and would disrupt a whole other middle school whose current staff don’t have the experience or interest to operate the way HB does. This would not work! PP needs to find a useful hobby besides ineffective problem solving in DCUM. Try audiobooks? Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, APS doesn’t need high school seats. It does need middle school seats. You are “solving” a non-existent problem.

The problem is the unfairness and segregation of HB. It doesn't make sense in a public system.

If you're worried about segregration, you should be a lot more worried about the neighborhood schools.

But that's not your issue is it - you just want to find a reason to hate on HB. Just because your kid didn't get in doesn't mean it's not fair.

I love how HB parents keep complaining about the demographics of neighborhood schools, when HB is literally the least diverse and most white school

No it's not.

Yes it is, as well as lowest FARMS secondary school

ure, it may have more students of color than lily white Jamestown, but HBW has few POC than Yorktown.

The FARMS ratio is the real cherry on top,

Washington-Liberty High School
• Approximately 2,900 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Native American/Alaskan Native: 0.17%
• Asian: 9.17%
• Black: 8.21%
• Hispanic: 34.41%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander: 0.03%
• White: 40%
• Multiracial: 8%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 25.93%

Yorktown High School
• Enrollment (2022–2023): Approximately 2,531 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• White: 61.2%
• Hispanic: 16.6%
• Asian: 7.4%
• Black: 5.5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.2%
• Multiracial: 9.1%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 9.8%

Wakefield High School
• Approximately 2,716 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Hispanic: 42.6%
• White: 25.9%
• Black: 18.6%
• Asian/Pacific Islander: 7.7%
• Multiracial: 5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
Reduced-Price Lunch: 30.0%

H-B Woodlawn Secondary Program,
Enrollment and Demographics:
• Total Enrollment: Approximately 775 students across grades 6–12.
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Asian: 12.4%
• Black: 5.0%
• Hispanic: 12.5%
• White: 62.6%
• Multiracial: 7.5%
• Additional Statistics:
• Reduced-Price Lunch: 5.2%

[Anonymous]

Lol, your "solution" isn't doing anything to change this. You're just shifting the lottery spots to high school instead of middle, where, again, they are totally not needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, APS doesn’t need high school seats. It does need middle school seats. You are “solving” a non-existent problem.

The problem is the unfairness and segregation of HB. It doesn't make sense in a public system.

If you're worried about segregration, you should be a lot more worried about the neighborhood schools.

But that's not your issue is it - you just want to find a reason to hate on HB. Just because your kid didn't get in doesn't mean it's not fair.

I love how HB parents keep complaining about the demographics of neighborhood schools, when HB is literally the least diverse and most white school

No it's not.

Yes it is, as well as lowest FARMS secondary school

ure, it may have more students of color than lily white Jamestown, but HBW has few POC than Yorktown.

The FARMS ratio is the real cherry on top,

Washington-Liberty High School
• Approximately 2,900 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Native American/Alaskan Native: 0.17%
• Asian: 9.17%
• Black: 8.21%
• Hispanic: 34.41%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander: 0.03%
• White: 40%
• Multiracial: 8%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 25.93%

Yorktown High School
• Enrollment (2022–2023): Approximately 2,531 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• White: 61.2%
• Hispanic: 16.6%
• Asian: 7.4%
• Black: 5.5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.2%
• Multiracial: 9.1%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 9.8%

Wakefield High School
• Approximately 2,716 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Hispanic: 42.6%
• White: 25.9%
• Black: 18.6%
• Asian/Pacific Islander: 7.7%
• Multiracial: 5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
Reduced-Price Lunch: 30.0%

H-B Woodlawn Secondary Program,
Enrollment and Demographics:
• Total Enrollment: Approximately 775 students across grades 6–12.
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Asian: 12.4%
• Black: 5.0%
• Hispanic: 12.5%
• White: 62.6%
• Multiracial: 7.5%
• Additional Statistics:
• Reduced-Price Lunch: 5.2%

well now you added a new criteria if you just look at high schools. Now do middle and elementary schools too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lol, your "solution" isn't doing anything to change this. You're just shifting the lottery spots to high school instead of middle, where, again, they are totally not needed.

That is because this troll doesn't actually care about diversity. They just want to get their OWN kid in.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t have an issue with the whiteness of HB. I have zero idea how white it is. This was a huge problem in the past for HB, which is one of the primary reasons for the double blind lottery system. It used to be very driven by parent/teacher demand—that is, a lot of dyslexia and ADHD kids who “could not handle” a normal school day but were considered “smart” got sent there. It was very white. And it served as a great safety valve before all this IEP/504 world, and was discriminatory in the sense that it wasn’t for problem kids in the really bad sense ... just kids who needed a different structure. Then it was deemed racist and they revised the lottery.

Now, I have a problem with HB because its mission is completely opaque. It doesn’t mean anything for kids to be “independent” and “self-directed”. That’s just a load of education jargon; it’s not like Spanish immersion where kids are taught in Spanish.

And it does have a HUGE benefit—or at least what most people in our community consider one—its size. Most of us want a smaller HS experience for our children. Given, not every single person, but most of us. And, you get to send your kid there to learn absolutely the same things as every other general public school. Nonsense.

I have one kid at HB and another at a regular APS school. Trust me, the independent self directed program is very real, and very different from regular schools. Just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean it's not real.

Literally the opposite of what they say at information night.

Can you give a concrete example of what it means, I think you are just defending your turf like all HB “Fight Club” Parents

Exactly! What specific differences can you describe between the educational pedagogy of the two programs?

When I’ve asked this question before, moreover, I get responses that described differences endemic to a smaller HS but that don’t actually evidence a distinct educational program that the public should be funding.

That the public should be funding? The public is paying for these kids to go to high school no matter which one they go to or what they study. It pays for IEPs, after school sports, band, counseling, busing...all kinds of things that the comprehensive high schools offer to thousands of kids, some of which are also available at H-B and many of which are not. And if you're talking about the capital costs of the building; again, all three comprehensive high schools were rebuilt since 2000 and we took out enormous bonds to pay for them.

The cost per student at HB is higher, and they still participate in school sports and have whole county busing.

Moreover, they don’t allowed overcrowding like at other high schools which places a burden on neighboring schools.

What are you proposing? We need the high school seats so we can't just shutter it. And the campus doesn't have the facilities to be an all purpose high school. I'm not sure what you think should happen?

Make it high school only and allow it be over capacity by as much as the most over capacity neighborhood school. No longer capped as “small” and at capacity

I'm the one who posted up thread that it should be HS only and focus on the arts. I don't like the open schools pedagogy and think it's outdated.

I'd defer to APS to decide capacity. I don't think overcrowding should be used punitively, but managed across the district to least affect students. I don't believe in punishing students or teacher for being at an option school.

Oh okay. Because you are one person who doesn't like HB's pedagogy, even though you don't really know anything about it, I guess that's decided then.

Perhaps you could contribute substance? You're not creating a good look for HB.

There are lots of people unhappy with the current HB system (see this and other threads) and I think it's time to reevaluate. Keep the good parts and fix the bits that aren't working. I've heard complaints about the mixed AP and non-AP classes at HB, as well as fewer options. It sounds like that would be solved by nixing the middle school and enlarging the HS. It would also allow for students to choose between HB, ArlTech, IB and their neighborhood HS at the same time. That timing makes a lot more sense to me than parents making the decision for kids in 5th grade, largely based on fear of big schools and the desire to have access to a scarce resource.

A few very bitter people want the school to be something other than it is. You don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about re the class options. APS doesn't need high school seats, and the HB middle school seats do serve a needed purpose. If you don't like APS services that only some students receive and others do not, let's start cutting out school sports and theater and IB and AP programs, as other posters have noted.

My special needs kid lotteried into HB in middle school and it has really helped them. They had gone through a lot of bullying in elementary. Now they have found their people. We don't have any particular connections, just managed to lottery in. Not sure why some parents who don't have kids at HB are so focused on it, but why not spend that attention making your home middle and/or high schools better instead of weirdly focusing on messing up something you're not familiar with? HB is great and has lots of involved parents, really doesn't need people who understand nothing about the school, just looking in from the outside, suggesting how to "improve" it.

So your response is that if you're not in the HB club, you wouldn't understand? Nonsense. It's not that special that other parents can't understand it.

Nothing I proposed would change it being a smaller HS option and having involved parents and excellent teachers. Special needs kids could still lotto in. Keep the good, remember?

You also didn't actually respond to the comment about the mixed AP and non-AP classes. It's an issue.

I'm absolutely not bitter about anything. Where exactly did you get bitter? By defending HB and saying capacity shouldn't be used as a weapon against students who attend option school?

Btw, people are focused on HB on this thread because the thread is about HB.

I can tell from your previous comment that you don't understand HB because you said something totally wrong. And someone maybe you keeps asking what's so special and different about HB. So yes, I can tell that non HB parents do not understand it.

I think you're mixing up several posters. I haven't said anything "wrong" about HB and am not the one who keeps asking why it's special. Nor am I the one proposing to pack it full of students or move walls.

However you are treating it like a special club that no one else could possibly understand. It's great if it's been good to your kid, but you have to understand that there are many parents who aren't happy that they didn't get in when they think it would have been excellent option for their kid. They have kids who were bullied or not getting teacher attention and they're justifiably pissed. Hence the suggestion to open up more HS seats and at a time where kids have several options so more kids get to go where they choose. It's not a good look that HB is a public good that only a few get to experience because of a lottery and that is seemingly is being allocated to the most privileged (look at the super low FARMs percentage and other demographics).

But you have to understand that middle school is a really hard time for a lot of kids. There are already too few options in APS. It's really just HB or the regular schools. So taking away the one alternative is a horrible idea. Advocate for more options, not taking away what we already have. In high school, there are already choices - HB, Arlington Tech, IB, plus transfers between high schools. Not everyone wants HB.

HB currently benefits a miniscule number of 6th grade students who only get the option by winning a lottery. It wouldn't be taking away anything--it would be creating a system that is more fair to all.

APS isn't building more options, so stop pretending that's an option.

It most certainly would be taking away an important option for the middle school kids who do apply and get in. Look, it's a relatively small school, without fields or serious facilities like other high schools. It's going to affect roughly the same number of kids whether it's left as is or, as you (crazily imho) suggest, turn it solely into a high school when APS does not need high school seats but does need middle school seats. So your "solution" is going to take away seats from a population that actually has a need (middle school) and provide roughly the same number of seats for a population that does NOT need additional seats (high school). This doesn't really help the high school kids who still need to find the right "fit" because there are actually numerous high school options and ways to transfer, but it definitely hurts the middle school kids who currently would benefit.

It's just a totally bananas "fix" that doesn't help APS and would cost a ton of money that APS doesn't currently have given the total budget crisis to "solve" a "problem" that you have totally made up in your head because of your insane fixation at the lottery issue. Here's a secret: Lots of kids in APS want things that they cannot have. Kids try out for the play and they don't make it. Kids ask to get a certain homeroom teacher and it isn't granted. Kids try out for sports and they don't make it. Kids compete in a spelling bee and they lose. Kids ask to get a certain accommodation and they are denied. Kids ask to get an extension on an assignment and they get denied. People ask for things and they don't always get it and THAT IS A PART OF LIFE, that is how things go sometimes. We applied to ATS and didn't get in and we went on and lived our lives. Later we applied to HB and got in. Did I try to shut down or change the way ATS runs because we didn't win the ATS lottery? No. I went about my life and let the people in charge of that school figure out how to run it.

HB has been a great help to my special needs kid, and serves as such to lots of other special needs (and other) kids who make a point of applying to the lottery. It's not a great choice for everyone. There are tradeoffs. You are saying that a lottery isn't fair and doesn't benefit everyone so it should be taken away, when the high school option you would provide would still be a lottery and would therefore still be the same amount of "unfair" that incenses you now. Moreover you would be killing the middle school escape route that does currently benefit many middle school kids who legit have no other option besides private school. You don't know what you're talking about and would hurt more than you would help, and add expense and disruption on top of that. Your kind of parental involvement -- thinking you know better than people who are actually directly involved in a school and who think they are super smart and therefore won't shut up about how they would "improve" (lol) things -- is what's wrong with APS.

1) Aps absolutely needs more high school seats. Middle school seats are plentiful just misallocated. Let’s move an HB type program to within WMS, like Immersion is within Gunston.

2) are all HB parents as insufferable — your wall of text is unhinged.

This is a lame response that either just inexplicably throws up its hands and ignores the very real problems the prior comment pointed out or proposes a totally new out-of-the-blue and absolutely NOT ASKED FOR “solution” to the middle school problem that would take additional thousands/millions of dollars to implement (that APS doesn’t have) and would disrupt a whole other middle school whose current staff don’t have the experience or interest to operate the way HB does. This would not work! PP needs to find a useful hobby besides ineffective problem solving in DCUM. Try audiobooks? Good luck!

HB and WMS are literal opposites, so the troll's suggestion shows how little they know. Or care. They just seem to want to dismantle a great program because their own kid didn't get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, APS doesn’t need high school seats. It does need middle school seats. You are “solving” a non-existent problem.

The problem is the unfairness and segregation of HB. It doesn't make sense in a public system.

If you're worried about segregration, you should be a lot more worried about the neighborhood schools.

But that's not your issue is it - you just want to find a reason to hate on HB. Just because your kid didn't get in doesn't mean it's not fair.

I love how HB parents keep complaining about the demographics of neighborhood schools, when HB is literally the least diverse and most white school

No it's not.

Yes it is, as well as lowest FARMS secondary school

ure, it may have more students of color than lily white Jamestown, but HBW has few POC than Yorktown.

The FARMS ratio is the real cherry on top,

Washington-Liberty High School
• Approximately 2,900 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Native American/Alaskan Native: 0.17%
• Asian: 9.17%
• Black: 8.21%
• Hispanic: 34.41%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander: 0.03%
• White: 40%
• Multiracial: 8%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 25.93%

Yorktown High School
• Enrollment (2022–2023): Approximately 2,531 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• White: 61.2%
• Hispanic: 16.6%
• Asian: 7.4%
• Black: 5.5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.2%
• Multiracial: 9.1%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 9.8%

Wakefield High School
• Approximately 2,716 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Hispanic: 42.6%
• White: 25.9%
• Black: 18.6%
• Asian/Pacific Islander: 7.7%
• Multiracial: 5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
Reduced-Price Lunch: 30.0%

H-B Woodlawn Secondary Program,
Enrollment and Demographics:
• Total Enrollment: Approximately 775 students across grades 6–12.
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Asian: 12.4%
• Black: 5.0%
• Hispanic: 12.5%
• White: 62.6%
• Multiracial: 7.5%
• Additional Statistics:
• Reduced-Price Lunch: 5.2%

Not sure where you got this, but it's either inaccurate, outdated, or both.

Here are enrollment numbers, which are on the APS website, and don't match at all with what you wrote (even for the 2022-2023 school year)
https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

Here are race/ethnicity stats (the most recent one is from the year you quoted, but is completely different from your numbers):
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/06/Civil-Rights-Table-1-2022-web.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, APS doesn’t need high school seats. It does need middle school seats. You are “solving” a non-existent problem.

The problem is the unfairness and segregation of HB. It doesn't make sense in a public system.

If you're worried about segregration, you should be a lot more worried about the neighborhood schools.

But that's not your issue is it - you just want to find a reason to hate on HB. Just because your kid didn't get in doesn't mean it's not fair.

I love how HB parents keep complaining about the demographics of neighborhood schools, when HB is literally the least diverse and most white school

No it's not.

Yes it is, as well as lowest FARMS secondary school

ure, it may have more students of color than lily white Jamestown, but HBW has few POC than Yorktown.

The FARMS ratio is the real cherry on top,

Washington-Liberty High School
• Approximately 2,900 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Native American/Alaskan Native: 0.17%
• Asian: 9.17%
• Black: 8.21%
• Hispanic: 34.41%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander: 0.03%
• White: 40%
• Multiracial: 8%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 25.93%

Yorktown High School
• Enrollment (2022–2023): Approximately 2,531 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• White: 61.2%
• Hispanic: 16.6%
• Asian: 7.4%
• Black: 5.5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.2%
• Multiracial: 9.1%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 9.8%

Wakefield High School
• Approximately 2,716 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Hispanic: 42.6%
• White: 25.9%
• Black: 18.6%
• Asian/Pacific Islander: 7.7%
• Multiracial: 5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
Reduced-Price Lunch: 30.0%

H-B Woodlawn Secondary Program,
Enrollment and Demographics:
• Total Enrollment: Approximately 775 students across grades 6–12.
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Asian: 12.4%
• Black: 5.0%
• Hispanic: 12.5%
• White: 62.6%
• Multiracial: 7.5%
• Additional Statistics:
• Reduced-Price Lunch: 5.2%

well now you added a new criteria if you just look at high schools. Now do middle and elementary schools too.

There are no elementary schools which are 1/4 the size of the other elementary school schools but nice try

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t have an issue with the whiteness of HB. I have zero idea how white it is. This was a huge problem in the past for HB, which is one of the primary reasons for the double blind lottery system. It used to be very driven by parent/teacher demand—that is, a lot of dyslexia and ADHD kids who “could not handle” a normal school day but were considered “smart” got sent there. It was very white. And it served as a great safety valve before all this IEP/504 world, and was discriminatory in the sense that it wasn’t for problem kids in the really bad sense ... just kids who needed a different structure. Then it was deemed racist and they revised the lottery.

Now, I have a problem with HB because its mission is completely opaque. It doesn’t mean anything for kids to be “independent” and “self-directed”. That’s just a load of education jargon; it’s not like Spanish immersion where kids are taught in Spanish.

And it does have a HUGE benefit—or at least what most people in our community consider one—its size. Most of us want a smaller HS experience for our children. Given, not every single person, but most of us. And, you get to send your kid there to learn absolutely the same things as every other general public school. Nonsense.

I have one kid at HB and another at a regular APS school. Trust me, the independent self directed program is very real, and very different from regular schools. Just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean it's not real.

Literally the opposite of what they say at information night.

Can you give a concrete example of what it means, I think you are just defending your turf like all HB “Fight Club” Parents

Exactly! What specific differences can you describe between the educational pedagogy of the two programs?

When I’ve asked this question before, moreover, I get responses that described differences endemic to a smaller HS but that don’t actually evidence a distinct educational program that the public should be funding.

That the public should be funding? The public is paying for these kids to go to high school no matter which one they go to or what they study. It pays for IEPs, after school sports, band, counseling, busing...all kinds of things that the comprehensive high schools offer to thousands of kids, some of which are also available at H-B and many of which are not. And if you're talking about the capital costs of the building; again, all three comprehensive high schools were rebuilt since 2000 and we took out enormous bonds to pay for them.

The cost per student at HB is higher, and they still participate in school sports and have whole county busing.

Moreover, they don’t allowed overcrowding like at other high schools which places a burden on neighboring schools.

What are you proposing? We need the high school seats so we can't just shutter it. And the campus doesn't have the facilities to be an all purpose high school. I'm not sure what you think should happen?

Make it high school only and allow it be over capacity by as much as the most over capacity neighborhood school. No longer capped as “small” and at capacity

I'm the one who posted up thread that it should be HS only and focus on the arts. I don't like the open schools pedagogy and think it's outdated.

I'd defer to APS to decide capacity. I don't think overcrowding should be used punitively, but managed across the district to least affect students. I don't believe in punishing students or teacher for being at an option school.

Oh okay. Because you are one person who doesn't like HB's pedagogy, even though you don't really know anything about it, I guess that's decided then.

Perhaps you could contribute substance? You're not creating a good look for HB.

There are lots of people unhappy with the current HB system (see this and other threads) and I think it's time to reevaluate. Keep the good parts and fix the bits that aren't working. I've heard complaints about the mixed AP and non-AP classes at HB, as well as fewer options. It sounds like that would be solved by nixing the middle school and enlarging the HS. It would also allow for students to choose between HB, ArlTech, IB and their neighborhood HS at the same time. That timing makes a lot more sense to me than parents making the decision for kids in 5th grade, largely based on fear of big schools and the desire to have access to a scarce resource.

A few very bitter people want the school to be something other than it is. You don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about re the class options. APS doesn't need high school seats, and the HB middle school seats do serve a needed purpose. If you don't like APS services that only some students receive and others do not, let's start cutting out school sports and theater and IB and AP programs, as other posters have noted.

My special needs kid lotteried into HB in middle school and it has really helped them. They had gone through a lot of bullying in elementary. Now they have found their people. We don't have any particular connections, just managed to lottery in. Not sure why some parents who don't have kids at HB are so focused on it, but why not spend that attention making your home middle and/or high schools better instead of weirdly focusing on messing up something you're not familiar with? HB is great and has lots of involved parents, really doesn't need people who understand nothing about the school, just looking in from the outside, suggesting how to "improve" it.

So your response is that if you're not in the HB club, you wouldn't understand? Nonsense. It's not that special that other parents can't understand it.

Nothing I proposed would change it being a smaller HS option and having involved parents and excellent teachers. Special needs kids could still lotto in. Keep the good, remember?

You also didn't actually respond to the comment about the mixed AP and non-AP classes. It's an issue.

I'm absolutely not bitter about anything. Where exactly did you get bitter? By defending HB and saying capacity shouldn't be used as a weapon against students who attend option school?

Btw, people are focused on HB on this thread because the thread is about HB.

I can tell from your previous comment that you don't understand HB because you said something totally wrong. And someone maybe you keeps asking what's so special and different about HB. So yes, I can tell that non HB parents do not understand it.

I think you're mixing up several posters. I haven't said anything "wrong" about HB and am not the one who keeps asking why it's special. Nor am I the one proposing to pack it full of students or move walls.

However you are treating it like a special club that no one else could possibly understand. It's great if it's been good to your kid, but you have to understand that there are many parents who aren't happy that they didn't get in when they think it would have been excellent option for their kid. They have kids who were bullied or not getting teacher attention and they're justifiably pissed. Hence the suggestion to open up more HS seats and at a time where kids have several options so more kids get to go where they choose. It's not a good look that HB is a public good that only a few get to experience because of a lottery and that is seemingly is being allocated to the most privileged (look at the super low FARMs percentage and other demographics).

But you have to understand that middle school is a really hard time for a lot of kids. There are already too few options in APS. It's really just HB or the regular schools. So taking away the one alternative is a horrible idea. Advocate for more options, not taking away what we already have. In high school, there are already choices - HB, Arlington Tech, IB, plus transfers between high schools. Not everyone wants HB.

HB currently benefits a miniscule number of 6th grade students who only get the option by winning a lottery. It wouldn't be taking away anything--it would be creating a system that is more fair to all.

APS isn't building more options, so stop pretending that's an option.

It most certainly would be taking away an important option for the middle school kids who do apply and get in. Look, it's a relatively small school, without fields or serious facilities like other high schools. It's going to affect roughly the same number of kids whether it's left as is or, as you (crazily imho) suggest, turn it solely into a high school when APS does not need high school seats but does need middle school seats. So your "solution" is going to take away seats from a population that actually has a need (middle school) and provide roughly the same number of seats for a population that does NOT need additional seats (high school). This doesn't really help the high school kids who still need to find the right "fit" because there are actually numerous high school options and ways to transfer, but it definitely hurts the middle school kids who currently would benefit.

It's just a totally bananas "fix" that doesn't help APS and would cost a ton of money that APS doesn't currently have given the total budget crisis to "solve" a "problem" that you have totally made up in your head because of your insane fixation at the lottery issue. Here's a secret: Lots of kids in APS want things that they cannot have. Kids try out for the play and they don't make it. Kids ask to get a certain homeroom teacher and it isn't granted. Kids try out for sports and they don't make it. Kids compete in a spelling bee and they lose. Kids ask to get a certain accommodation and they are denied. Kids ask to get an extension on an assignment and they get denied. People ask for things and they don't always get it and THAT IS A PART OF LIFE, that is how things go sometimes. We applied to ATS and didn't get in and we went on and lived our lives. Later we applied to HB and got in. Did I try to shut down or change the way ATS runs because we didn't win the ATS lottery? No. I went about my life and let the people in charge of that school figure out how to run it.

HB has been a great help to my special needs kid, and serves as such to lots of other special needs (and other) kids who make a point of applying to the lottery. It's not a great choice for everyone. There are tradeoffs. You are saying that a lottery isn't fair and doesn't benefit everyone so it should be taken away, when the high school option you would provide would still be a lottery and would therefore still be the same amount of "unfair" that incenses you now. Moreover you would be killing the middle school escape route that does currently benefit many middle school kids who legit have no other option besides private school. You don't know what you're talking about and would hurt more than you would help, and add expense and disruption on top of that. Your kind of parental involvement -- thinking you know better than people who are actually directly involved in a school and who think they are super smart and therefore won't shut up about how they would "improve" (lol) things -- is what's wrong with APS.

1) Aps absolutely needs more high school seats. Middle school seats are plentiful just misallocated. Let’s move an HB type program to within WMS, like Immersion is within Gunston.

2) are all HB parents as insufferable — your wall of text is unhinged.

This is a lame response that either just inexplicably throws up its hands and ignores the very real problems the prior comment pointed out or proposes a totally new out-of-the-blue and absolutely NOT ASKED FOR “solution” to the middle school problem that would take additional thousands/millions of dollars to implement (that APS doesn’t have) and would disrupt a whole other middle school whose current staff don’t have the experience or interest to operate the way HB does. This would not work! PP needs to find a useful hobby besides ineffective problem solving in DCUM. Try audiobooks? Good luck!

HB and WMS are literal opposites, so the troll's suggestion shows how little they know. Or care. They just seem to want to dismantle a great program because their own kid didn't get in.

Since no one will explain what the four pillars actually mean nor what the philosophy or pedagogy of HB is, there is no reason for anyone to understand why a random middle school in Arlington would be the “polar opposite “. You’re just making stuff up now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, APS doesn’t need high school seats. It does need middle school seats. You are “solving” a non-existent problem.

The problem is the unfairness and segregation of HB. It doesn't make sense in a public system.

If you're worried about segregration, you should be a lot more worried about the neighborhood schools.

But that's not your issue is it - you just want to find a reason to hate on HB. Just because your kid didn't get in doesn't mean it's not fair.

I love how HB parents keep complaining about the demographics of neighborhood schools, when HB is literally the least diverse and most white school

No it's not.

Yes it is, as well as lowest FARMS secondary school

ure, it may have more students of color than lily white Jamestown, but HBW has few POC than Yorktown.

The FARMS ratio is the real cherry on top,

Washington-Liberty High School
• Approximately 2,900 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Native American/Alaskan Native: 0.17%
• Asian: 9.17%
• Black: 8.21%
• Hispanic: 34.41%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander: 0.03%
• White: 40%
• Multiracial: 8%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 25.93%

Yorktown High School
• Enrollment (2022–2023): Approximately 2,531 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• White: 61.2%
• Hispanic: 16.6%
• Asian: 7.4%
• Black: 5.5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.2%
• Multiracial: 9.1%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 9.8%

Wakefield High School
• Approximately 2,716 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Hispanic: 42.6%
• White: 25.9%
• Black: 18.6%
• Asian/Pacific Islander: 7.7%
• Multiracial: 5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
Reduced-Price Lunch: 30.0%

H-B Woodlawn Secondary Program,
Enrollment and Demographics:
• Total Enrollment: Approximately 775 students across grades 6–12.
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Asian: 12.4%
• Black: 5.0%
• Hispanic: 12.5%
• White: 62.6%
• Multiracial: 7.5%
• Additional Statistics:
• Reduced-Price Lunch: 5.2%

well now you added a new criteria if you just look at high schools. Now do middle and elementary schools too.

There are no elementary schools which are 1/4 the size of the other elementary school schools but nice try

We're talking FARMS and diversity numbers, remember? There are many schools in APS worse than HB on those metrics. But you want to cherry pick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, APS doesn’t need high school seats. It does need middle school seats. You are “solving” a non-existent problem.

The problem is the unfairness and segregation of HB. It doesn't make sense in a public system.

If you're worried about segregration, you should be a lot more worried about the neighborhood schools.

But that's not your issue is it - you just want to find a reason to hate on HB. Just because your kid didn't get in doesn't mean it's not fair.

I love how HB parents keep complaining about the demographics of neighborhood schools, when HB is literally the least diverse and most white school

No it's not.

Yes it is, as well as lowest FARMS secondary school

ure, it may have more students of color than lily white Jamestown, but HBW has few POC than Yorktown.

The FARMS ratio is the real cherry on top,

Washington-Liberty High School
• Approximately 2,900 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Native American/Alaskan Native: 0.17%
• Asian: 9.17%
• Black: 8.21%
• Hispanic: 34.41%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander: 0.03%
• White: 40%
• Multiracial: 8%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 25.93%

Yorktown High School
• Enrollment (2022–2023): Approximately 2,531 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• White: 61.2%
• Hispanic: 16.6%
• Asian: 7.4%
• Black: 5.5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.2%
• Multiracial: 9.1%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 9.8%

Wakefield High School
• Approximately 2,716 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Hispanic: 42.6%
• White: 25.9%
• Black: 18.6%
• Asian/Pacific Islander: 7.7%
• Multiracial: 5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
Reduced-Price Lunch: 30.0%

H-B Woodlawn Secondary Program,
Enrollment and Demographics:
• Total Enrollment: Approximately 775 students across grades 6–12.
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Asian: 12.4%
• Black: 5.0%
• Hispanic: 12.5%
• White: 62.6%
• Multiracial: 7.5%
• Additional Statistics:
• Reduced-Price Lunch: 5.2%

Not sure where you got this, but it's either inaccurate, outdated, or both.

Here are enrollment numbers, which are on the APS website, and don't match at all with what you wrote (even for the 2022-2023 school year)
https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

Here are race/ethnicity stats (the most recent one is from the year you quoted, but is completely different from your numbers):
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/06/Civil-Rights-Table-1-2022-web.pdf

OK, so it’s really just as white as Yorktown not more white than Yorktown. Great.

Now, where is the FARMS data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, APS doesn’t need high school seats. It does need middle school seats. You are “solving” a non-existent problem.

The problem is the unfairness and segregation of HB. It doesn't make sense in a public system.

If you're worried about segregration, you should be a lot more worried about the neighborhood schools.

But that's not your issue is it - you just want to find a reason to hate on HB. Just because your kid didn't get in doesn't mean it's not fair.

I love how HB parents keep complaining about the demographics of neighborhood schools, when HB is literally the least diverse and most white school

No it's not.

Yes it is, as well as lowest FARMS secondary school

ure, it may have more students of color than lily white Jamestown, but HBW has few POC than Yorktown.

The FARMS ratio is the real cherry on top,

Washington-Liberty High School
• Approximately 2,900 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Native American/Alaskan Native: 0.17%
• Asian: 9.17%
• Black: 8.21%
• Hispanic: 34.41%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander: 0.03%
• White: 40%
• Multiracial: 8%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 25.93%

Yorktown High School
• Enrollment (2022–2023): Approximately 2,531 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• White: 61.2%
• Hispanic: 16.6%
• Asian: 7.4%
• Black: 5.5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.2%
• Multiracial: 9.1%
• Students Eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Lunch: 9.8%

Wakefield High School
• Approximately 2,716 students
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Hispanic: 42.6%
• White: 25.9%
• Black: 18.6%
• Asian/Pacific Islander: 7.7%
• Multiracial: 5%
• American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
• Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander/Alaskan Native: 0.11%
Reduced-Price Lunch: 30.0%

H-B Woodlawn Secondary Program,
Enrollment and Demographics:
• Total Enrollment: Approximately 775 students across grades 6–12.
• Ethnic Breakdown:
• Asian: 12.4%
• Black: 5.0%
• Hispanic: 12.5%
• White: 62.6%
• Multiracial: 7.5%
• Additional Statistics:
• Reduced-Price Lunch: 5.2%

well now you added a new criteria if you just look at high schools. Now do middle and elementary schools too.

There are no elementary schools which are 1/4 the size of the other elementary school schools but nice try

We're talking FARMS and diversity numbers, remember? There are many schools in APS worse than HB on those metrics. But you want to cherry pick.

More high schools? Talk about effing cherry picking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have an issue with the whiteness of HB. I have zero idea how white it is. This was a huge problem in the past for HB, which is one of the primary reasons for the double blind lottery system. It used to be very driven by parent/teacher demand—that is, a lot of dyslexia and ADHD kids who “could not handle” a normal school day but were considered “smart” got sent there. It was very white. And it served as a great safety valve before all this IEP/504 world, and was discriminatory in the sense that it wasn’t for problem kids in the really bad sense ... just kids who needed a different structure. Then it was deemed racist and they revised the lottery.

Now, I have a problem with HB because its mission is completely opaque. It doesn’t mean anything for kids to be “independent” and “self-directed”. That’s just a load of education jargon; it’s not like Spanish immersion where kids are taught in Spanish.

And it does have a HUGE benefit—or at least what most people in our community consider one—its size. Most of us want a smaller HS experience for our children. Given, not every single person, but most of us. And, you get to send your kid there to learn absolutely the same things as every other general public school. Nonsense.

I have one kid at HB and another at a regular APS school. Trust me, the independent self directed program is very real, and very different from regular schools. Just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean it's not real.

Literally the opposite of what they say at information night.

Can you give a concrete example of what it means, I think you are just defending your turf like all HB “Fight Club” Parents

Exactly! What specific differences can you describe between the educational pedagogy of the two programs?

When I’ve asked this question before, moreover, I get responses that described differences endemic to a smaller HS but that don’t actually evidence a distinct educational program that the public should be funding.

That the public should be funding? The public is paying for these kids to go to high school no matter which one they go to or what they study. It pays for IEPs, after school sports, band, counseling, busing...all kinds of things that the comprehensive high schools offer to thousands of kids, some of which are also available at H-B and many of which are not. And if you're talking about the capital costs of the building; again, all three comprehensive high schools were rebuilt since 2000 and we took out enormous bonds to pay for them.

The cost per student at HB is higher, and they still participate in school sports and have whole county busing.

Moreover, they don’t allowed overcrowding like at other high schools which places a burden on neighboring schools.

What are you proposing? We need the high school seats so we can't just shutter it. And the campus doesn't have the facilities to be an all purpose high school. I'm not sure what you think should happen?

Make it high school only and allow it be over capacity by as much as the most over capacity neighborhood school. No longer capped as “small” and at capacity

I'm the one who posted up thread that it should be HS only and focus on the arts. I don't like the open schools pedagogy and think it's outdated.

I'd defer to APS to decide capacity. I don't think overcrowding should be used punitively, but managed across the district to least affect students. I don't believe in punishing students or teacher for being at an option school.

Oh okay. Because you are one person who doesn't like HB's pedagogy, even though you don't really know anything about it, I guess that's decided then.

Perhaps you could contribute substance? You're not creating a good look for HB.

There are lots of people unhappy with the current HB system (see this and other threads) and I think it's time to reevaluate. Keep the good parts and fix the bits that aren't working. I've heard complaints about the mixed AP and non-AP classes at HB, as well as fewer options. It sounds like that would be solved by nixing the middle school and enlarging the HS. It would also allow for students to choose between HB, ArlTech, IB and their neighborhood HS at the same time. That timing makes a lot more sense to me than parents making the decision for kids in 5th grade, largely based on fear of big schools and the desire to have access to a scarce resource.

A few very bitter people want the school to be something other than it is. You don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about re the class options. APS doesn't need high school seats, and the HB middle school seats do serve a needed purpose. If you don't like APS services that only some students receive and others do not, let's start cutting out school sports and theater and IB and AP programs, as other posters have noted.

My special needs kid lotteried into HB in middle school and it has really helped them. They had gone through a lot of bullying in elementary. Now they have found their people. We don't have any particular connections, just managed to lottery in. Not sure why some parents who don't have kids at HB are so focused on it, but why not spend that attention making your home middle and/or high schools better instead of weirdly focusing on messing up something you're not familiar with? HB is great and has lots of involved parents, really doesn't need people who understand nothing about the school, just looking in from the outside, suggesting how to "improve" it.

So your response is that if you're not in the HB club, you wouldn't understand? Nonsense. It's not that special that other parents can't understand it.

Nothing I proposed would change it being a smaller HS option and having involved parents and excellent teachers. Special needs kids could still lotto in. Keep the good, remember?

You also didn't actually respond to the comment about the mixed AP and non-AP classes. It's an issue.

I'm absolutely not bitter about anything. Where exactly did you get bitter? By defending HB and saying capacity shouldn't be used as a weapon against students who attend option school?

Btw, people are focused on HB on this thread because the thread is about HB.

I can tell from your previous comment that you don't understand HB because you said something totally wrong. And someone maybe you keeps asking what's so special and different about HB. So yes, I can tell that non HB parents do not understand it.

I think you're mixing up several posters. I haven't said anything "wrong" about HB and am not the one who keeps asking why it's special. Nor am I the one proposing to pack it full of students or move walls.

However you are treating it like a special club that no one else could possibly understand. It's great if it's been good to your kid, but you have to understand that there are many parents who aren't happy that they didn't get in when they think it would have been excellent option for their kid. They have kids who were bullied or not getting teacher attention and they're justifiably pissed. Hence the suggestion to open up more HS seats and at a time where kids have several options so more kids get to go where they choose. It's not a good look that HB is a public good that only a few get to experience because of a lottery and that is seemingly is being allocated to the most privileged (look at the super low FARMs percentage and other demographics).

But you have to understand that middle school is a really hard time for a lot of kids. There are already too few options in APS. It's really just HB or the regular schools. So taking away the one alternative is a horrible idea. Advocate for more options, not taking away what we already have. In high school, there are already choices - HB, Arlington Tech, IB, plus transfers between high schools. Not everyone wants HB.

HB currently benefits a miniscule number of 6th grade students who only get the option by winning a lottery. It wouldn't be taking away anything--it would be creating a system that is more fair to all.

APS isn't building more options, so stop pretending that's an option.

It most certainly would be taking away an important option for the middle school kids who do apply and get in. Look, it's a relatively small school, without fields or serious facilities like other high schools. It's going to affect roughly the same number of kids whether it's left as is or, as you (crazily imho) suggest, turn it solely into a high school when APS does not need high school seats but does need middle school seats. So your "solution" is going to take away seats from a population that actually has a need (middle school) and provide roughly the same number of seats for a population that does NOT need additional seats (high school). This doesn't really help the high school kids who still need to find the right "fit" because there are actually numerous high school options and ways to transfer, but it definitely hurts the middle school kids who currently would benefit.

It's just a totally bananas "fix" that doesn't help APS and would cost a ton of money that APS doesn't currently have given the total budget crisis to "solve" a "problem" that you have totally made up in your head because of your insane fixation at the lottery issue. Here's a secret: Lots of kids in APS want things that they cannot have. Kids try out for the play and they don't make it. Kids ask to get a certain homeroom teacher and it isn't granted. Kids try out for sports and they don't make it. Kids compete in a spelling bee and they lose. Kids ask to get a certain accommodation and they are denied. Kids ask to get an extension on an assignment and they get denied. People ask for things and they don't always get it and THAT IS A PART OF LIFE, that is how things go sometimes. We applied to ATS and didn't get in and we went on and lived our lives. Later we applied to HB and got in. Did I try to shut down or change the way ATS runs because we didn't win the ATS lottery? No. I went about my life and let the people in charge of that school figure out how to run it.

HB has been a great help to my special needs kid, and serves as such to lots of other special needs (and other) kids who make a point of applying to the lottery. It's not a great choice for everyone. There are tradeoffs. You are saying that a lottery isn't fair and doesn't benefit everyone so it should be taken away, when the high school option you would provide would still be a lottery and would therefore still be the same amount of "unfair" that incenses you now. Moreover you would be killing the middle school escape route that does currently benefit many middle school kids who legit have no other option besides private school. You don't know what you're talking about and would hurt more than you would help, and add expense and disruption on top of that. Your kind of parental involvement -- thinking you know better than people who are actually directly involved in a school and who think they are super smart and therefore won't shut up about how they would "improve" (lol) things -- is what's wrong with APS.

1) Aps absolutely needs more high school seats. Middle school seats are plentiful just misallocated. Let’s move an HB type program to within WMS, like Immersion is within Gunston.

2) are all HB parents as insufferable — your wall of text is unhinged.

This is a lame response that either just inexplicably throws up its hands and ignores the very real problems the prior comment pointed out or proposes a totally new out-of-the-blue and absolutely NOT ASKED FOR “solution” to the middle school problem that would take additional thousands/millions of dollars to implement (that APS doesn’t have) and would disrupt a whole other middle school whose current staff don’t have the experience or interest to operate the way HB does. This would not work! PP needs to find a useful hobby besides ineffective problem solving in DCUM. Try audiobooks? Good luck!

HB and WMS are literal opposites, so the troll's suggestion shows how little they know. Or care. They just seem to want to dismantle a great program because their own kid didn't get in.

Since no one will explain what the four pillars actually mean nor what the philosophy or pedagogy of HB is, there is no reason for anyone to understand why a random middle school in Arlington would be the “polar opposite “. You’re just making stuff up now.

It's okay, honey, the people who are in charge and make decisions know. We don't need to explain it to a random troll too cowardly to post under your own name.